Melted Fuel in Reactor 2. Suppression Chamber Destroyed. -- 'Fukushima City Needs to be Evacuated'

I have to pose a pretty simple question here, but I'll throw in a couple of facts first;

a.) The fuel used is called Mox, which is a mix of plutonium, zircon and other mediating elements, and
b. ) Plutonium has a critical mass of about 16kg's (some articles state 4kg or less but that is with a trigger)

Critical mass is defined as the point when enough mass is accumulated self bombardment occurs and results in a nuclear reaction that causes a nuclear explosion.

Critical Mass (def)
The minimum amount of fissile material that can sustain a nuclear chain reaction under a given set of conditions the minimum amount or number required for something to happen, begin, etc.

On Plutonium

About Plutonium Bombs
Nuclear Weapons

Now at some point, with melted Mox rods, their individual compont materials will separate and settle, stratify into molten layers if you will.

The Question: How much actual plutonium is in each rod and how many rods per reactor?

Once melting and stratification starts to occur, there is constantly increasing mass added to each layer over time based on material availability (the rods). Eventually, if the amount of p239 is of sufficient quantity in each rod, the stratified p239 layer will reach and/or exceed the critical mass "at rest" level of 16kg. When this happens an uncontrolled nuclear reaction has a high probability of occuring, just like an atomic bomb.

There are a couple of problems;

The containment vessel will not contain this kind of explosion
The resulting explosion will send a few pounds (at least) of plutonium into the atmosphere. One pound distributed evenly amongst seven billion people will kill them all.

The conclusion is simple, since the rods are made up of plutonium plus mediators, this material has to be prevented from melting and achieving critical mass through stratification, otherwise, we're all screwed.

This scenario has two outcomes, it goes very bad or it goes ELE bad imho. All we can do is wait and see.

Cheers - Dave

I have some new moles on my leg. I call them my Fukushima moles. We all get to have a taste of those reactors in our mouths now. It has been enough time for worldwide dispersal. It will keep dispersing for thousands of years. We will quickly run out of land area to use so we must go to space now. There we won't have any moles.

This is bad. But like you said, we all knew it was only a matter of time. In a few years time i see it being a 'no go area'. Dont even get me started on how bad this could end for the Pacific ocean.

Originally posted by crazydaisy
The only thing I can say - now what?
Will they evacuate Fukushima? I
didn't see that in the reports. What
a nightmare.

I doubt they will do anything. Nothing against the Japanese people, but their govt is just as bad and inefficient as the next.

Most likely they'll evacuate just a small area and deem the rest safe. Its too bad I wont be around twenty years from now to see when Japan has become a race of mutants.

reply to post by bobs_uruncle


Thanks for the breakdown and
information. I am worried for
Japan and the world.

reply to post by crazydaisy

If not, then how much worse could it get?

Worse would be the Spent Fuel Pools (SFPs) being toppled and their contents scattered; Unit 4' pool especially, since it contained an entire fresh core waiting shroud replacement in the reactor.



Caltech .pdf

Originally posted by calnorak

Originally posted by Mkoll
If things get worse there I could easily imagine that China will accept the ensuing Japanese exodus. They do have plenty of ghost cities waiting for habitation, after all.

There is some really bad blood between the Japanese and the Chinese (yes still). It would be a really big step in character for the Chinese govt to let them stay.

Bad blood? Really big thing? lol..... Japan 'raped' Nanking and murdered over 300,000 Chinese in a matter of days...as just one example. This, Japan still refuses to even acknowledge happened or teach their own people about as a facet of a really nasty war.

I think Japan would be better off appealing to the tender mercies of North Korea for refugee status..or maybe just setting out in boats to head East and hope to make landfall someday. lol...

reply to post by ofNight


Here in the article it reads,

TEPCO was able to place monitoring equipment directly inside the reactor for the first time since last year's accident.

A dosimeter lowered into the containment vessel of the No.2 reactor registered 72.9 sieverts, or 72,900 millisieverts per hour at maximum -- a level where a human is certain to die within about 7 minutes of exposure.

The utility hopes to determine the state of the vessels as it moves to decommission the reactors.

It says radiation levels increased as the dosimeter was lowered inside the reactor

By using Newton's Inverse law we can calculate how radioactive the fuel rod debris ...

Newton's inverse law for radiation

Hey there, Great Post.

So, I was briefly an Air Force Reserve Medic for almost two years, about a year of that being active duty, but am now currently separated. Non-drilling traditional reservist I believe is the term.

During my time in San Antonio, Texas for U.S. Air Force Basic Training we were at church one Sunday morning (it was a welcome restful period away from the drill instructors, or TI's) and were told that the earthquake in Haiti had hit. What a terrible thing to happen to a very densely populated, inpoverished nation I thought to myself. We were told that the Air Force had already sent 12,000 of our finest to aid Haiti with this tragedy, and that the AF would be the first on the ground. People from all walks of life, from celebrities, to the Red Cross were down there.

The Fukushima incident has almost no residual media coverage, and is at least one million times more tragic. I believe that our Japenese brothers and sisters are just as important as those in Haiti. Why did the U.S. not deploy any help for these poor folk? At least something besides some small volunteer teams with geiger counters in hand. I was so proud at the point they told us our boys were on the way to Haiti..now I'm very glad to be separated; as a medic I would be cleaning up any mess the U.S. Government/Current Holders of the Power had created, or decided to become a part of.

It's very disheartening to know that the U.S. and multiple other countries with the resources to aid such a catastrophe, do not really care at all if the worlds largest water supply is pumped full of radioactive material and all of those poor people are given a dose of radiation worse than Chernobyl..probably being told everythings fine.


Maybe the after effects of this horrible incident and the Japenese government will aid in the final push to open the publics eyes on just how corrupt the people that hold all the cards really are, how it affects daily life, and everything we've grown to love and hold true.

We can only be so hopeful..

Your thoughts?

The NHK article that the OP linked to refers to a situation that was forseen many months ago in these forums. It is painfully clear that the nuclear industry has been extremely derelict in the design specifications that they have implemented for containment vessels in nuclear reactors.

There are refractory materials that can withstand the heat of the lava like material that results from the mixture of melted reactor fuel and melted concrete, but the other part of the problem, keeping the melted fuel from collecting into one large extremely radioactive mass doesn't seem to ever have been addressed.

Reactor containment vessels should be redesigned to direct the flow of melted fuel into a large number of separate refractory material lined and appropriately small, removeable vessels, so that future incidents of this kind can be dealt with expeditiously.

Why this never seems to have been done is beyond me.

TEPCO in collusion with the Japanese, and other governments, to this day, are still lying through their greedy teeth.

They should have treated it like Chernobyl disaster from the first week. It's made Chernobyl look like a walk in the park by comparison. There is no comparison. It's an ongoing disaster never before experienced in the history of mankind.

It's been hidden behind the iron doors of politics and profits. Human beings haven't been factored in, except as financial deficits to the bottom line.

Try this....ask a friend, non ATSer how Japan is doing regarding Fukushima....you'll hear, 9 times out of 10, "oh they fixed that a long time ago". Dare ya...it will scare the bejeezus out of you....

Des

reply to post by JediMindTrek


How do you know the Japanese didn't refuse? Or that the US is helping, just on the DL to keep the reality of how bad the situation is secret? It's a totally different situation than Haiti, so I don't think you can make a comparison and say the US cares about Haiti but couldn't care less about Japan.

The only thing I can suggest to them is build cloud-busters, aim it at the reactor, and wait. No need for evacuation, only action

reply to post by Patriotsrevenge


Have you considered that the bedrock in Japan may not allow them to tunnel under the vicinity?

And these are two different disasters, comparing Chernobyl and Fukishima is comparing apples and oranges.

Wow, thanks for keeping us updated. People need to become more aware of this situation as it looks like its only getting worse. Pray for the people in Japan!

Originally posted by FreedomCommander
The only thing I can suggest to them is build cloud-busters, aim it at the reactor, and wait. No need for evacuation, only action

Yup...they would have to drag the stolen files of Wilhelm Reich from the deep FBI basement, to help end this mess. Since the FBI won't admit they are the ones who stole all his work when they raided his lab, that won't happen.

talk to any average person and they will spout an hours worth of gibberish about Romney v Santorum - men who don't care about any "constituent" , the Kardashian sagas, Whitney Houston and her legacy and this Martin kid. All of which have little to no effect on them in any real or meaningful way.

None, zero, will mention the horrifying mess that is this GLOBAL nuclear disaster. This mess will never end, we'll all be showing signs of illness due to this within our lifetimes and there is NONE, ZERO, international effort to resolve it at all! We have a clamering for internation forces to stop Syria which is doing NOTHING to anyone but themselves, but we have no outcry for the nuclear hell that is producing life killing waste at an alarming rate and shows only signs of getting worse: anybody offer to help get the rods out of reactor 4 before they fall and kill us all? No, Syria first, as human rights are at stake, Fukashima is human lives which are worthless.

An ongoing horror of this magnitude should, MUST, be something everyone should come together to deal with, but we simply don't care enough to push those who want it to continue to stop it. We should be clear, since few care, it usually means even fewer want it to get worse.

reply to post by nixie_nox


Actually, the ground under Fukushima Daiichi is sandstone/mudstone and is very easy to tunnel through.


Geology of Japan

ETA

This site goes in to quite a bit of detail about the site itself.

This scenario has two outcomes, it goes very bad or it goes ELE bad imho. All we can do is wait and see.

reply to post by bobs_uruncle


I am bar far educated on this matter. I read your post and it all makes sense however I was not under the impression it could cause an ELE. Can you go into further detail....ya know....for dummies who are unaware. Thanks!

reply to post by ofNight


I looked into this thread due to the title. The sources however say not a word about any evacuation being needed.

I'm not sure I ever see the point to fear mongering.