Vatican exposures: Catholic ATS members? What say you?

reply to post by colbe


You only responded to the first sentence of my post (not that I'm arguing with you, but you were the one who was complaining earlier about cherry-picking people's posts and taking things out of context... )

I know from personal experience that any church such as the Catholic or Orthodox church that encourages members to revere their priests and their hierarchy as "the Church" creates the climate for unscrupulous priests to abuse their parishioners. Even as a middle aged convert to Orthodoxy, I put up with bad treatment (non-sexual) from my priest because I respected the office of priest. I can only imagine how easy it would be for a priest to use his office to take advantage of a young altar boy.

I also know from personal experience that being Orthodox or being Catholic can become an end in itself. Hypocrisy is to look for the approval of men instead of the approval of God.

So do you agree with these observations?

Originally posted by colbe

neno, it's not worth it to speak to you,

You say one thing and come back to reply, I meant something else.
tee...hee. Reject and excuse all you want...

Jesus said "This is My body."

Your disagreement and protest holds no water. History shows the Apostles, the first Christians believed in the Real Presence.

I reckon that's all that need be said then, eh?

Jesus said that, and clearly it was bread which he had broken for the Apostles, not literal hunks of himself that he had ripped away. Therefore, he must have meant something other than that the bread was literal flesh. When he turned water into wine, no one had to pretend - it was real, actual wine.

Parables can be very difficult for some to understand.

History doesn't show any such thing that I am aware of - perhaps you can bring references to support that claim?

reply to post by EricD

I'm sort of stunned by this statement. Have you ever looked into the hospices, shelters, soup kitchens, food banks, hospitals, St. Vincent DePaul and other services provided by the Church? Have you ever seen anyone turned away because they were an atheist, Hindu, Protestant or pagan?

Have you ever seen photos of nuns holding infants inflicted with aids or brothers comforting the aged? What about literacy programs run by Catholics at prisons?

I don't see the Church rejecting anyone.

Eric, with all due respect....I have been very much a part of hospices (and was trained to be a hospice practitioner, as well as having served those who were bereaved), shelters (for domestic abuse victims), soup kitchens, food banks (transporting people to and fro, and also visiting the urban core homeless shelters),
hospitals (I was a photographer for newborns at the local Catholic hospital, and was prior to that asked by my very RC clients to be the interpreter [Spanish/English] during ER crises, including miscarriages, c-sections, etc.), and I have also been a client in Catholic Charities mental health services (which was part of what led me to become a social worker/counselor myself)...
you need to be aware that Catholic Charities hires people who are not Catholic....they serve folks who are needing help regardless of denomination...of the clinician OR the client.....

all of those things are wonderful, fantastic, benevolent. My "beef" is with the fact that all the while those good people are doing good things, their leaders are engaged in perversion, greed, gluttony, and fraud to a huge degree.

Throw them out!
Share the wealth!

It's really not that complicated. Seriously...the good people, who get the idea, are fine.

It's the fact that the leaders are willing to cover for one another when they are discovered to be pervs.
You don't see the RCC 'rejecting anyone'?
But, but, but
if a non-Roman Catholic comes to a Roman Catholic church and wants to partake in communion, s/he is rejected.....
as an unworthy, heretical sinner who is condemned. As a sinner who has no hope of entering the RCC's version of the Kingdom of Heaven.

Originally posted by cloudyday
reply to post by colbe

 

You only responded to the first sentence of my post (not that I'm arguing with you, but you were the one who was complaining earlier about cherry-picking people's posts and taking things out of context...

)

I know from personal experience that any church such as the Catholic or Orthodox church that encourages members to revere their priests and their hierarchy as "the Church" creates the climate for unscrupulous priests to abuse their parishioners. Even as a middle aged convert to Orthodoxy, I put up with bad treatment (non-sexual) from my priest because I respected the office of priest. I can only imagine how easy it would be for a priest to use his office to take advantage of a young altar boy.

I also know from personal experience that being Orthodox or being Catholic can become an end in itself. Hypocrisy is to look for the approval of men instead of the approval of God.

So do you agree with these observations?

edit on 29-3-2012 by cloudyday because: (no reason given)

Why do you mock Roman Catholicism? You converted Eastern Orthodox?

I cannot help it you write so much to trash the Church, the same as
you are doing here. I underlined one sentence to speak to, your
opinion on Church teaching is wrong, why bother to discuss.

The "Orthodox" revere the New Covenant Priesthood. They understand,
it is through the priest we receive God's greatest graces.

Your mock of the priesthood. You are closed, please don't mock Christ's
consecrated priests again. You think someone is going to discuss anything after you say the above. I'll give you some advise.

Forgive the priest who was unkind to you.

reply to post by colbe

You are closed, please don't mock Christ's
consecrated priests again. You think someone is going to discuss anything after you say the above.

I am perfectly willing to discuss 'anything' after cloudyday said the above.

"Please" is a nice touch, colbe. But it doesn't back up your weird dogma and erroneous perceptions.

Originally posted by colbe

God wants you to become Roman Catholic, everyone in Heaven is Roman Catholic.

I'd like to take this opportunity to thank you for preaching every single one of my ancestors into Hell.

I think they'll get a real kick out of that.

Originally posted by wildtimes
It's really not that complicated. Seriously...the good people, who get the idea, are fine.

Jesus said these words to a good-to-do person also. He said he was here for those who need him.

reply to post by SisyphusRide

Jesus said these words to a good-to-do person also. He said he was here for those who need him.

I starred you, but ...'to a "good-to-do" person?'
Yeah, he's there, for those who know where to look. Sorry, Sisyphus, but I don't catch your meaning here.

Originally posted by SisyphusRide

Originally posted by colbe
Wake you dear brothers and sisters in Christ. Please, at least remember the message to Denise. God is going to unite Christians and bring non-Christians into the fold. No more Protestants or the Orthodox.

Why does Jesus speak of the Eucharist in the last sentence (John 6:57)? Because it is true. You must eat His flesh and drink His blood, this is How Jesus abides in you and you in Him. Think "supernaturally" as God intends you to do in regards to the most Holy Eucharist.

reading that part I think it is talking about knowledge...

we don't need symbology if we teach other well... the traditions are scaring people coupled with all their attention in the news.

John 6:57
He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, abideth in me, and I in him.

SisyphusRide,

How do you see this as meaning "knowledge" or "symbology?"

Jesus was speaking of something "supernatural." You are taking the
Protestant excuse and believing it. Protestants cannot confect the Eucharist so have come up with calling the Eucharist a "symbol" and/or a "remembrance" of Jesus' death on the Cross.

No, it is Jesus. As He said..."This is My body."

They refer to Our Lord's words of "spirit" and life. "Spirit" never means
a symbol or knowledge, it means something supernatural. It is God
coming to us, all of Him in the Eucharist.

Originally posted by colbe

Originally posted by cloudyday
reply to post by colbe

 

You only responded to the first sentence of my post (not that I'm arguing with you, but you were the one who was complaining earlier about cherry-picking people's posts and taking things out of context...

)

I know from personal experience that any church such as the Catholic or Orthodox church that encourages members to revere their priests and their hierarchy as "the Church" creates the climate for unscrupulous priests to abuse their parishioners. Even as a middle aged convert to Orthodoxy, I put up with bad treatment (non-sexual) from my priest because I respected the office of priest. I can only imagine how easy it would be for a priest to use his office to take advantage of a young altar boy.

I also know from personal experience that being Orthodox or being Catholic can become an end in itself. Hypocrisy is to look for the approval of men instead of the approval of God.

So do you agree with these observations?

edit on 29-3-2012 by cloudyday because: (no reason given)

Why do you mock Roman Catholicism? You converted Eastern Orthodox?

I cannot help it you write so much to trash the Church, the same as
you are doing here. I underlined one sentence to speak to, your
opinion on Church teaching is wrong, why bother to discuss.

The "Orthodox" revere the New Covenant Priesthood. They understand,
it is through the priest we receive God's greatest graces.

Your mock of the priesthood. You are closed, please don't mock Christ's
consecrated priests again. You think someone is going to discuss anything after you say the above. I'll give you some advise.

Forgive the priest who was unkind to you.

Cloudyday went out of his way to specify unscrupuolous priests. You contend that those, too, are consecrated by God? That is one of the very reasons I will refuse to enter a Catholic heaven - those are the very sorts of people I will not hang out with, in this life or the next, and one can presume that if they are consecrated by God, heaven will be chock full of them.

That isn't any place I want to be.

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by SisyphusRide

 

Jesus said these words to a good-to-do person also. He said he was here for those who need him.

I starred you, but ...'to a "good-to-do" person?'
Yeah, he's there, for those who know where to look. Sorry, Sisyphus, but I don't catch your meaning here.

edit on 29-3-2012 by wildtimes because: (no reason given)

I believe he meant "well to do".

Originally posted by colbe

Originally posted by SisyphusRide

Originally posted by colbe
Wake you dear brothers and sisters in Christ. Please, at least remember the message to Denise. God is going to unite Christians and bring non-Christians into the fold. No more Protestants or the Orthodox.

Why does Jesus speak of the Eucharist in the last sentence (John 6:57)? Because it is true. You must eat His flesh and drink His blood, this is How Jesus abides in you and you in Him. Think "supernaturally" as God intends you to do in regards to the most Holy Eucharist.

reading that part I think it is talking about knowledge...

we don't need symbology if we teach other well... the traditions are scaring people coupled with all their attention in the news.

John 6:57
He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, abideth in me, and I in him.

No one will ever get to heaven on a technicality, although many will try. Those who have only a technicality to hang their hats on will be spending their time with the lawyers. Merely taking communion will not be enough.

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by SisyphusRide

 

Jesus said these words to a good-to-do person also. He said he was here for those who need him.

I starred you, but ...'to a "good-to-do" person?'
Yeah, he's there, for those who know where to look. Sorry, Sisyphus, but I don't catch your meaning here.

I don't know I seen it on a movie... Jesus was walking collecting up people like tax collectors and I guess just lost souls and one guy came by when he was sitting in town after I think he made someone see... the guy tried to run him off and ask ("who are you? leave out of this place... who is this magician?)

I looked at it like he was telling someone who had faith already that he didn't need the church (or whatever the jewish people had in those days)

Originally posted by colbe

I can understand Protestants rejecting Catholic prophecy but how can you ignore your own messengers? Go back a few posts and read the message to the Protestant seer of yesterday.

Jesus desires we all believe the same.

Protestants do mot have "seers". Some denominations have "prophets", but I have never known of one to utter a prophecy that ever came to pass.

I was, however, present at a "prophecy" several years ago that was perhaps the scariest thing I've ever heard in my life, and which prompted me to leave, immediately, and never return. The scariest part may have been that no one there - including the speaker - besides myself knew what was being said.

I no longer place much stock in prophets, and examine closely what they say after that experience.

Originally posted by colbe

Wake you dear brothers and sisters in Christ. Please, at least remember the message to Denise. God is going to unite Christians and bring non-Christians into the fold. No more Protestants or the Orthodox.

Have you thought that out? If that ever happens, there will be no more Roman Catholics, either.

Originally posted by Iason321
reply to post by colbe

 

Colbe - I regularly confess my sins to God, but why is it necessary to confess them to another man? Why not skip the middleman and confess directly to the Boss? I don't believe in having to repeat hail marys to makeup for sins - I believe in confessing to Almighty God in my own words and with my own prayers that come from my heart.
The concept of Hell - well, I think you know where I stand on this one, and if you're refusing to admit the RCC has been wrong for centuries, then you will never admit that I and others are correctr on this one. Hell means Sheol. The word Hell didn't even exist until the 2nd or 3rd century....it's a madeup concept. Personally, the idea of a Hell where people are boiled in hot vats, and raped by demons, etc etc, is repulsing, and quite frankly, in my eyes, disrespectful to the God I know and love.

The gift of God is eternal life granted through the Lord Jesus Christ. Nowhere in the Bible does it say sinners will be kept alive forever in severe torment in another realm - it's simply a false concept that is not true.

When atheist die, they get basically exactly what they believed - eternal blankness and death. They will never again breathe air, love, sing, dance, feel, or anything. Their memory is forgotten and they have no more say in anything done under the sun.

And the idea of "paying your way into heaven" by that I mean the RCC promotes the idea that you don't goto heaven if you dont pay your tithes and give the Church money. That is completely wrong and goes against everything God stands for.

Jesus would never tell people they MUST pay or else goto a place of severe eternal torment - it goes against Gods character.

I'm trying to be tactful about this all and show the most respect for you colbe, and I have 100% faith that I will meet you in Paradise - and I don't believe going to the catholic church to worship is necessarly a bad thing - I just want you to know the falsehoods of some of the things they promote, and that their ideas of who goes to heaven and who goes to "hell" are completely and utterly way off base, way out in left field......

Some of the nicest people and most devout people I know are Catholics, and I seek not to destroy their faith in God - I seek only to open their eyes that paying money to the church and praying for the dead and saying hail marys is completely unneccessary.
Bless you too colbe.

I am very happy you confess your sins to God. Your question, why do
we have to confess them to a priest? The answer is ~ this is how Our
Lord set it up. Knowing you have to "act" to have your sins forgiven
to gain God's presence back in your soul isn't too much to do. And
there is the "assurance" of hearing the priest's words of absolution.
He stands in the place of Christ. Christ is forgiving you.

And the humility of Confession to a priest. The Apostles were the first priests. One verse shows Jesus requires confession of your sins to a priest. Our Lord told the Apostles..."whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven"..

John 20:23, you have to "hear" someone's sins to forgive them.

I can't go back and forth with you about the reality of Hell. Jesus speaks
of Hell 24 times in the Gospel. If everyone thought "tithing" wasn't needed
how would there be any Churches, Cathedrals or how would priests
live? Tithing doesn't make anyone rich. You give what you can if you can't
give a certain percentage of your income. Catholics pray for the dead, meaning those in Purgatory. There is a place of purgation, nothing unholy enters Heaven. Jesus words "until the last farthing" means we account for everything we do and say, here by our love, prayers and sufferings and if incomplete, over the veil in Purgatory.

Prayer whether it is personal or rote is beneficial. Jesus meant repeating
a prayer that is "insincere." I hope I helped answer your questions.


thanks for your kind reply, very loving,


colbe

p.s. Jesus redeemed mankind, justification, 'eternal life' is not a free gift. God's grace is a free gift though.

reply to post by colbe

I can't go back and forth with you about the reality of Hell.

You can't? Why ever not?
You seem to know all about it, colbs.
The trouble is that it's a fantasy; a scary, haunted-house kind of fantasy that doesn't really exist. It's a way for 'the Church' to keep people cow-towing to their dogma.

Give up the idea of Hell, colbe. There's no 'reality of Hell'. There's no 'back and forth' about it.
It's a construct of men....those men who want to be in control, like abusive spouses. "You don't do what I say, you will suffer hell!" ......and then, "You broke the rules!" (and the victim says, 'what rules? I don't understand the rules!'), and the abuser says "That doesn't matter! You broke them, and now I shall beat the ever-living crap out of you FOREVER."

What??
Really??

reply to post by wildtimes


Exactly. There is no back and forth about it. No such place exists and if anyone digs into the Bible and researches the meanining of the hebrew and greek terms it becomes quite clear, and everything falls into place.

One of my biggest reasons that was holding me back from having perfect faith in God was the problem of Hell - now that I've discovered it's a man made concept that doesn't really exist, I have solved one of the biggest problems of Christianity....for myself anyways.....

Good stuff.

reply to post by Iason321


That's true. What is usually translated as "hell" is "Sheol" - the grave, death. In some places "Gehenna" (the valley of Hinnom) is used, which was a valley just outside Jerusalem where trash was burned, and that illustration of the separation from God was taken literally by some and passed on as a fire-filled hell.

"Hades", a Greek term for the underworld where all dead go in Greek mythology is what gave us the concept that "hell" is an underground place, and the Gehenna illustration filled that place with fire in the imagination.

"Gehenna" also came through into Islam as "Jahannum".

Iason and everyone,

I underlined one sentence. Sharing an excerpt of love and hope, Our Lord's way...

Tuesday, March 27, 2012

Do Not Worry That You Feel Weary Or Alone


I want to give a message to the lonely and the weary that God is always with you. Whether you can feel me in your presence or not, I am there. Earth is not a place where you will feel true joy right now. It is not your true home. Your sufferings are to be united with mine for all of eternity. Do not worry that you feel weary or alone. I felt that way much of my time on earth. In this sense, true faith can come into play for you to follow me no matter how you are feeling. Feelings are not your reality. Living in faith and in my sacred heart is where you need to be. All things considered, you do live in a time of much despair, much despondency. It is not my plan for you to live this way, but it is a sign of the times and trials to come. A true follower of mine will stay steadfast and true to my teachings no matter how they are thinking or feeling. This is how our souls will be united....

www.divinemercyillumiation.blogspot.com...