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Former native leader under fire for dealing with Iran

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posted on Mar, 26 2012 @ 09:00 AM
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reply to post by FreeSpeaker
 



This whole Iran thing is a political stunt for attention.


Exactly.

Don't listen to the mouthpiece of the Islamic regime when he says:


Shi'a islam has always from the beginning stood against the oppression of any peoples.


There is absolutely no validity to that. 11 years ago they threw students off a university roof, because, get this - they were protesting - against oppression.

You are right when you say:

And just what oppressions are the Canadian natives suffering from?


Because, if you were to ask him how free Iranians are under the Islamic regime, the answer would be: not so free as the natives in Canada. I bet the natives are allowed to dance in public places, such as a park.


Tax exemptions and free education are more than anyone else gets in this country.


In Iran you pay extra taxes if you are not part of the shi'a religion. Ironic, since the mouthpiece wants you to believe they are against oppression.

So when he says things like:


Shall we turn our back on those who come to us in your opinion? It would be against our religion and beliefs to turn our back on one who said I am oppressed in the land. It is our duty to speak to them.


He is lying through his teeth. That is not Islam, that is Iranian culture before the Islamic Arabs invaded Persia, killed most people who did not convert and systematically raped Persian women. The backward culture of desert nomads could never even aspire to truly hold traditional Persian values at heart, in fact, these traditional freedom loving values are despised by the men in robes and turbans who proclaim to be leading Iran.

And because of that, they have no issue lying to people. So when the article states: "former elder" and the Islamic regime mouthpiece continuously stresses the word "leader", some bells should start ringing, some red flags should start being hoisted. Trust me, I have years of experience dealing with these people, both online and offline.




posted on Mar, 28 2012 @ 02:08 AM
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reply to post by InfoKartel
 


Infokartel I am Iranian living in Canada

for the record everything infokartel has said DOES happen in Iran, its very very bad..

my family has sporadically suffered from the regimes atrocities... but really its not as widespread and 1 dimensional as you make it seem.
I think thats why the people here think you are speaking on behalf of AIPAC/JDL/FOX or sound like a shill, because you are regurgitating their exaggerated propaganda

You try and make it sound like Iranian citizens are tortured, hanged, stoned, and harassed by the regime on a daily to hourly basis... that is far from the truth
I have many friends and family there who live ordinary lives there
From retirees, mall owners, business owners, children, students, teachers, housewives, dentists, doctors civil engineers... they all get along OK, Its not GREAT, but its not HORRIBLE either
My grandfather also still gets his pension money from when he worked 30 years ago with the oil industry


If there is anything Iranians are really suffering from right now its the sanctions imposed by the so called spreaders of democracy (more like death and destruction)
Did you see what they did to Libya??
It's their fault there is semi-hyper-inflation in Iran right now.
It's their fault food has gone up 2 fold what it costs it Canada
It's their fault gas has gone up 10 fold
It's their fault Iran is economically crumbling from within
They don't give a # about us. They just want our oil, our land, and enslavement

As much as you or others hate the regime, the western influence is far worse.. and IMO people should be wary of a regime overthrow or uprising of any sort for the time being
The sanctions are being imposed solely to frustrate the public and create an uprising against the regime
It's exactly what the elites want so they can go in and take Iran over for themselves
I can assure you Iranians will be MUCH worse off if that happens
edit on 28-3-2012 by seenavv because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 28 2012 @ 02:33 AM
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reply to post by seenavv
 



You try and make it sound like Iranian citizens are tortured, hanged, stoned, and harassed by the regime on a daily to hourly basis... that is far from the truth


Uhuh, uhuh...tell me something that you know for a fact...rather than what you can guess. Those idiots over there still gather for a hanging for crying out loud. Harrassement by the regime IS a daily thing, I don't know why you're trying to say it isn't...Maybe it isn't if you keep staring at the floor and keep your mouth shut, but if you see certain things and try to articulate your opinion - jail.

I dare any of your relatives to go picknicking at the park...then to dance in the park or be brave enough to sing. Do you know what happens to them? Do you know musicians are watched really closely?


I have many friends and family there who live fairly ordinary lives there
From retirees, mall owners, business owners, children, students, teachers, housewives, dentists, civil engineers... they all get along OK, Its not GREAT, but its not THAT bad either


Sounds like all those people have jobs and if they were to speak up they would not have jobs! Ask each one of them how much food they can get with their paychecks, and they have JOBS! Now imagine those who find it hard finding a job, the majority of the people, what are they supposed to do other than leave Iran for a future?
Because they sure as hell can't protest! That's a one way trip to jail.


It's their fault there is semi-hyper-inflation in Iran right now. It's their fault food has gone up 2 fold and gas has gone up 10 fold


WHAT? There are raving lunatics at the head of Iran right now, uttering words such as "destroy this place", "death to this and that"...do you have any idea how scared of a people Westerners are? It's not like the sanctions are a response to retarded businessmanagement by the theocracy, RIGHT???


That is exactly what the elites want so they can go in and take Iran over for themselves.
I can assure you Iranians will be MUCH worse off if that happens


Easy for you to say...as I see it, the "elites"(wtf is that anyways, nobody is elite) already took over Iran in '79. That's why their sons drive million dollar cars while they try to uphold a religious image and there's close to 2 million hard drug addicts...in Tehran alone. They are not hurting, so they will talk the biggest talk, get Iran more sanctions, hurt the regular people more, while they make sure they/their relatives can drive lamborghini's and import their lifestyle from "the great satan".


As much as you or others hate the regime, the western influence is no better..


There is more and more western influence and lifestyle in Iran every day! Hate the regime? Do you have any idea how many years the Islamic regime put Iran back? AT LEAST 30 years. Hate is an understatement of the year, and you would think so too if you knew how much the theocracy is really screwing Iran over.



posted on Mar, 28 2012 @ 04:03 AM
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Originally posted by InfoKartel
Uhuh, uhuh...tell me something that you know for a fact...rather than what you can guess.


Unless you live there right now, the only facts both of us have is what we hear from people living there
I've gathered information from a family member who just came from there 1 week ago
My parents talk to friends and family on a weekly basis over the phone
I have friends who visited Iran over the summer
I also have Iranian friends on Facebook


Originally posted by InfoKartel
Those idiots over there still gather for a hanging for crying out loud.

What??? No they don't thats total bull. Everytime one of those people is sentenced there is mass-objection to the rulings. I don't know how many times I've heard of awareness groups from Iran trying to stop them from happening


Originally posted by InfoKartel
Harrassement by the regime IS a daily thing, I don't know why you're trying to say it isn't...Maybe it isn't if you keep staring at the floor and keep your mouth shut, but if you see certain things and try to articulate your opinion - jail.

The regime is oppressive, but again not in the manner you try to portray it is.
Yes there is harassment that can occur occasionally but it isn't like beating people and drawing blood...its like "Put that hijab back in place"



Originally posted by InfoKartel
I dare any of your relatives to go picknicking at the park...then to dance in the park or be brave enough to sing. Do you know what happens to them?

My Iranian friend was showing me videos and telling me about dance raves in Iran...
Officials come by and they just throw them a couple toman and they leave


Originally posted by InfoKartel
Do you know musicians are watched really closely?

Yes I know they look for anti-government lyrics and whatnot. People do it anyways and most of them get away with it, if not they just throw a couple toman again..



Originally posted by InfoKartel
Sounds like all those people have jobs and if they were to speak up they would not have jobs! Ask each one of them how much food they can get with their paychecks, and they have JOBS! Now imagine those who find it hard finding a job, the majority of the people, what are they supposed to do other than leave Iran for a future?
Because they sure as hell can't protest! That's a one way trip to jail.


I have asked them. They said ever since the sanctions food has become more expensive then here in Canada. So whos to blame for that ??
Protesting is not a ONE way trip to jail, but it is one OF the ways to land you in jail.
Yes they are oppressed, suppressed and silenced but that kind of pressure is found to some degree in every part of the world.
As someone else mentioned did you see what happend in the occupy protests here? And people were just complaining about Wall.St not bringing down the entire US government




Originally posted by InfoKartel
WHAT? There are raving lunatics at the head of Iran right now, uttering words such as "destroy this place", "death to this and that"...do you have any idea how scared of a people Westerners are? It's not like the sanctions are a response to retarded businessmanagement by the theocracy, RIGHT???

They are lunatics, but maybe they have a reason to be mad ?
US is threatening all their allies with sanctions if they don't stop buying Iranian oil, wouldn't you be pissed if you were them?
Again inflation has only skyrocketed because of the sanctions.
And the central bank of Iran already has interest rates higher then anyone could imagine in north america, 20% returns



Originally posted by InfoKartel
Easy for you to say...as I see it, the "elites"(wtf is that anyways, nobody is elite) already took over Iran in '79. That's why their sons drive million dollar cars while they try to uphold a religious image and there's close to 2 million hard drug addicts...in Tehran alone. They are not hurting, so they will talk the biggest talk, get Iran more sanctions, hurt the regular people more, while they make sure they/their relatives can drive lamborghini's and import their lifestyle from "the great satan".


man you just don't realize. The fact that you aren't aware of the elites just shows how much you know about the whole situation. The western powers have been trying to seize complete control and meddling with Iran's stability for over a hundred years now
As I said before, they dont give a # about us. They want our oil, land, and labour, THATS IT

THEY are the real enemy. Not the petty-local dictators who are trying to make the most of the situation

Tell me, has Libya/Iraq/Afghanistan become any freer since their establishment' collapsed? And if so, at what cost??
edit on 28-3-2012 by seenavv because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 28 2012 @ 04:05 AM
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There is more and more western influence and lifestyle in Iran every day!

I was talking about geo-political influence, not cultural



Hate the regime? Do you have any idea how many years the Islamic regime put Iran back? AT LEAST 30 years. Hate is an understatement of the year, and you would think so too if you knew how much the theocracy is really screwing Iran over.


Right, lets see how many years and millions of lives did the Iran-Iraq war put us back?
And who funded it? The same people trying to push for "democracy" in Iran, USA/NATO
Or the CIA coups?
Or stealing our oil money through BP?
Or sanctions the # out of the country and threatening its allies not to buy our oil??
Or kills our scientists and suppresses us from the technological benefits of nuclear energy?
edit on 28-3-2012 by seenavv because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 28 2012 @ 05:10 AM
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Look..

I think we both agree, the Iranian regime is #. They are oppressive, murderous, religous bigots

But what I'm trying to say here is, I think the Iranian people should stick with the regime for now and seek reform in a more subtle approach

If the people stand up against the regime right now, there will be much bloodshed and chaos, and the uprising will without a doubt be hijacked.
The only force in line to replace them is a takeover by USA/NATO and I (along with many other Iranians I know) honestly prefer the latter
edit on 28-3-2012 by seenavv because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 28 2012 @ 08:23 AM
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reply to post by seenavv
 



As someone else mentioned did you see what happend in the occupy protests here?


How many Occupy protestors died?


The fact that you aren't aware of the elites just shows how much you know about the whole situation.


I wasn't aware that any single human was superior to the other one to the extent of "elite". I refuse to call people that, they are of flesh and blood like the rest of us. Maybe that one went over your head a little.


THEY are the real enemy. Not the petty-local dictators who are trying to make the most of the situation


So those petty local dictators who were put in place by THEM, are good people


So their kids driving lambos is a good thing for Iran



Tell me, has Libya/Iraq/Afghanistan become any freer since their establishment' collapsed? And if so, at what cost??


You are ignorant of your own culture, that's a shame. The matter of fact is that Iran has always been more progressive than the countries around it, plus, how many suicide bombers have blown themselves up in Iran?


I was talking about geo-political influence, not cultural


So wait, there is only the West and Religious extremists one can choose from? I disagree with this statement, but for the sake of conversation; you still dare to say religious extremists are better???


My Iranian friend was showing me videos and telling me about dance raves in Iran...
Officials come by and they just throw them a couple toman and they leave


So what if they don't accept the bribe(corruption - you're alluding that this is a good thing)? What would the punishment be? Again, these raves are not in public places, dance in public places and go to jail and get your ass whooped. Woohoo religious fundamentalists



Yes they are oppressed, suppressed and silenced but that kind of pressure is found to some degree in every part of the world.


Not to that degree...at all. I can't believe it man. You are sitting in Canada and you KNOW how messed up it is in Iran and you still say "it's the same everywhere".


US is threatening all their allies with sanctions if they don't stop buying Iranian oil, wouldn't you be pissed if you were them?


Why? Because those mullahs pocket the biggest part of the money?


Again inflation has only skyrocketed because of the sanctions.


But sanctions are there for a reason. They didn't just wake up one morning and go: "We have to sanction Iran!".


But what I'm trying to say here is, I think the Iranian people should stick with the regime for now and seek reform in a more subtle approach


...That's a fearful idea. You know why it is like that? Because ignorance is rampant. Reform in a subtle approach? You think there is patience for that? At a certain point the people will snap.



posted on Mar, 28 2012 @ 04:07 PM
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Originally posted by InfoKartel
How many Occupy protestors died?


To my knowledge, none died but many were injured.
But were they seeking overthrow the US government ?
How do you imagine they would be dealt with if that was their intention?



Originally posted by InfoKartel
I wasn't aware that any single human was superior to the other one to the extent of "elite". I refuse to call people that, they are of flesh and blood like the rest of us. Maybe that one went over your head a little.

I'm not saying they are superior to us as humans. But unfortunately they have accumulated so much wealth and power over the past few hundred years that they have become the most powerful group of individuals on this planet.
I highly suggest researching into this group
It consists of a tight-knit, coordinated, intelligent group of banksters who dictate world policy through the UN & NATO
Some groups they participate in, include: Council on Foreign Relations, Trilateral Commission, Bilderberg group, Committee of 300, Skull and Bones, and the Freemasons. I can assure you, if you do the research you will come to understand who these elite really are and what they have been up to


Originally posted by InfoKartel
So those petty local dictators who were put in place by THEM, are good people


They are not good people, I never said they were. None of this is black and white like good and bad.
The current regime only came to existence because of the oppression by the American/British interests, and unfortunately they ended up being no better then what they sought to replace


Originally posted by InfoKartel
So their kids driving lambos is a good thing for Iran


Again I never said that they are good..



Originally posted by InfoKartel
You are ignorant of your own culture, that's a shame. The matter of fact is that Iran has always been more progressive than the countries around it,

I'm not referring to cultural influence in those regions, again its geo-political.
All those countries went to # as soon as foreign interests decided to intervene


Originally posted by InfoKartel
how many suicide bombers have blown themselves up in Iran?

None that I know of, but that can change overnight if you ask NATO to come help "free" you



Originally posted by InfoKartel
So wait, there is only the West and Religious extremists one can choose from? I disagree with this statement, but for the sake of conversation; you still dare to say religious extremists are better???

Of course I can say without a doubt the religous extremists are better, again NOT saying they are good but they are much better then this at least...






Originally posted by InfoKartel
So what if they don't accept the bribe(corruption - you're alluding that this is a good thing)?

It's not a good thing again. But at least its still possible for the people to do what they want even though they may have to pay a token for it. And they almost always accept the bribe, I've never heard 1 case where they refused



Originally posted by InfoKartel
Not to that degree...at all. I can't believe it man. You are sitting in Canada and you KNOW how messed up it is in Iran and you still say "it's the same everywhere".

Yes not to the degree it is in Iran....if you understand my overall approach I'm not saying Iran is in a good situation but it could be much much worse.
And honestly if there was an uprising against the US or Canadian government here they would be dealt with very very harshly


Originally posted by InfoKartel
Why? Because those mullahs pocket the biggest part of the money?

The mullahs pocket the money, but a lot of it still ends up circulating and trickling down to the rest of the population. The sanctions make the mullahs suffer but ALSO make the people suffer


Originally posted by InfoKartel
But sanctions are there for a reason. They didn't just wake up one morning and go: "We have to sanction Iran!".

Do you seriously think those who are imposing sanctions on Iran, do it for the interests of the people?
If thats the case you have horribly misunderstood the situation. It's not about democracy or human rights for these people, that's their lie, their cover story


Originally posted by InfoKartel
...That's a fearful idea. You know why it is like that? Because ignorance is rampant. Reform in a subtle approach? You think there is patience for that? At a certain point the people will snap.

Unfortunately at the moment its either subtle reform, or NATO bombs and the return of the MEK & BP
edit on 28-3-2012 by seenavv because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 29 2012 @ 03:19 AM
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reply to post by seenavv
 



How do you imagine they would be dealt with if that was their intention?


That's called a straw man.


I can assure you, if you do the research you will come to understand who these elite really are and what they have been up to


It's weird because I know for a fact that I've been looking up those groups for longer than you have. Much longer.


The current regime only came to existence because of the oppression by the American/British interests, and unfortunately they ended up being no better then what they sought to replace


EEH wrong. The current regime came to power after the Shah was ousted by Khomenei who was a Pakistani and an asset of the UK/France. Do you know how the people in Iran were duped into protesting and rioting against the Shah? Cassette tapes sent into Iran from France.


I'm not referring to cultural influence in those regions, again its geo-political.


Well then you don't understand geopolitics.


None that I know of, but that can change overnight if you ask NATO to come help "free" you


Bullcrap.


Of course I can say without a doubt the religous extremists are better, again NOT saying they are good but they are much better then this at least...


So the only choices are, extremist religious nutjobs and bombs? What world do you live in? Keep posting vids from Libya, Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria...all the while forgetting that none of them are like Iran.


And they almost always accept the bribe, I've never heard 1 case where they refused


It's funny how you talk about the struggles of Iranians and you're talking about the rich kids over there who bribe people at raves. I don't give two craps about those people, they have all the freedoms they want, all the money they want, because their relatives are in the government(yes, those attending raves have powerful family members).


Yes not to the degree it is in Iran....if you understand my overall approach I'm not saying Iran is in a good situation but it could be much much worse.


It is much worse, how can it get worse? By having to fight for their freedom? By learning not to be fooled by some religious nutjobs? How can it be worse than the past 30 years???


And honestly if there was an uprising against the US or Canadian government here they would be dealt with very very harshly


I live in a Western country and if people ever decided to riot against the government I'd join the cops. You know why? Because the people in Western countries are ignorant as hell.


The sanctions make the mullahs suffer





Do you seriously think those who are imposing sanctions on Iran, do it for the interests of the people?
If thats the case you have horribly misunderstood the situation. It's not about democracy or human rights for these people, that's their lie, their cover story


I don't care what their cover story or lie is, the only thing I know is that people there are not free, they are oppressed. So for me to talk all this hoo-ha about how they are fine, is a disgusting act, especially because I'm Iranian as well. I also know that the current regime has destroyed a lot of Persian history, whether it be books or architecture, so not much to lose there either.

Let me ask you this: Do you seriously think whatever those mullah's do, is even in the slightest interest of the people? No! It's in the interest of their own wallets and their Quran.


Unfortunately at the moment its either subtle reform, or NATO bombs and the return of the MEK & BP


EEEH WRONG. Strikes are what destroy theocracies. By the people, for the people. And it's less than subtle. Why only have war as the only option? Because apathy suits you well?



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