Relocate Israel 2

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Secondly...do tell how the Old Testament Prophet was able to specifically cite an exact date when the Gregorian calendrical system was not put into place until 1582 AD much less the fact that the Catholic Church cannot even agree upon what year it is today given that estimates for Christ's birth range a span of at least five years with the year "0" being nonexistent in all of them.

Irrelevant. You can factor in Gregorian reckoning over Jewish reckoning with math.

Here ya go, the EXACT year of Israel's "second" regathering:
Prophecy #1:

"And this whole land shall be a desolation and astonishment. And these nations shall serve the
king of Babylon seventy years." ~ Jeremiah 25:11

Prophecy #2:

"Lie also on your left side, and lay the iniquity of the house of Israel upon it. According to the
number of days that you lie on it, you shall bear their iniquity. For I have laid on you the years of their iniquity,
according to the number of the days, 390 days so you shall bear the iniquity of the house of Israel. And when
you have completed them, lie again on your right site. Then you shall bear the iniquity of the house of Judah for
40 days. I have laid on you a day for each year." ~ Ezekiel 4:4-6

1. Biblical and Secular history both say the Babylonian captivity began in the springtime of 606 BC.
2. 70 years after 606 BC is 536 BC.
3. God told Ezekiel the Jews would suffer for 430 years for their sins (390 days for Israel, 40 days for Judah). They already were exiled 70 years for the Babylonian captivity. There remains 360 years left:

Prophecy #3:

“And after all this, if you do not obey Me, then I will punish you seven times more for your sins.” ~ Leviticus 26:18

4. God told the Jews previously that if after being judged they still do not repent, he will multiply their original judgment by 7 times.
5. 360 remaining prophetic years of judgment multiplied by 7 is 2,520 literal calendar years of judgment.
6. Convert 2,520 Jewish reckoned years into Gregorian reckoned years:

7. 2,520 X 360 = 907,200 days, 907,200 days divided by 365.25 days for a Gregorian calendar = 2,483 calendar Gregorian reckoned years.

8: Year 536 BC + 2,483 years of judgment that remained on the house of Israel is an end year of:

1948 (no year "0")

1948 was the prophesied exact year that Israel was to be regathered "a second time', and they were.




Have you ever taken a math class in your entire lifetime? You are looking so hard to find some type of formulaic "proof" for the existence of God and why the rules of "be kind to your neighbor", "turn the other cheek", and "love your enemies" shouldn't apply to Palestinians that you are forgetting the very basics in the big picture.

1. "606 BC" is a RELATIVE term and is dependent upon when the year 1 BC ended and 1 AD began.

2. All Bibles in existence are descended from a single surviving copy of the Greek Orthodox translations from 326AD which was the PRODUCT of The First Council of Nicea conducted by the Catholic Church.

3. The Catholic Church themselves state that they have no idea when the magical baby Jesus was born. Therefore...NO ONE KNOWS WHEN THE YEAR "606 BC" REALLY OCCURRED. Our "606BC" would be 610BC if the birth of Christ would have in 4AD.

4. No secular source I'm aware of thinks the Babylonian occupation ever started in 606BC. Every historian and scientists account I ever came across normally cites a time period starting in 598/597BC and ending in with the capture of Jerusalem in 587BC, given that these are the dates which are ACTUALLY supported by BOTH Judah's Tishri-based calendar and The Babylonian Chronicles...and most importantly... the archeological record.

4. No physical or archeological evidence has ever been found to definitively say that such a figure as Jesus even existed AT ANY TIME. It's all hearsay, legend, and myth at this point!!! I've been going easy on you and just rolling with the presupposition that there even WAS ever a Christ which was born.

...so without even getting into the myriad of mathematical and logical errors contained in your calculations above, we are already off base by somewhere between 19-23 YEARS AS A BEST CASE SCENARIO!!!

Now let's add in the fact the dates that your argument begins with a "prophecy" from Jeremiah that the King of Babylon would rule them for seventy years, despite the fact that the Persians liberated Jerusalem and modern-day Israel in 539BC....thus proving the inherent fallibility of soothsaying in the first place.

This is why religious people scare me. Ready to start WWIII defending a rogue nation because "God", bad math skills, and serious misconceptions about the historical record told them to.

It's amazing we aren't extinct.

reply to post by milominderbinder


Knock yourself out, not that I care:

here

Here

reply to post by milominderbinder

Ok...but WHY is there "absolutely no way they could be self-fulfilling"?

BECAUSE the folks ostensibly in the position to 'self-fulfill'

COULD NOT

BEGIN

to have the CAPACITIES necessary to do so.

I'm talking about prophecies regarding

NATIONS AND LEADERS

Even the 100 or so prophecies about Christ were overwhelmingly impossible for any individual to 'engineer.'

Israel becoming a nation again in a day in 1948 as prophesied . . . what individual engineered that?

Even the British officials working in behalf of that almost blew it right up to the last minute.

How about Hebrew becoming the language used in the restored Israel as Scripture predicted?

THAT'S NEVER HAPPENED with any culture or people even half as dispersed even 1/10th as long as the children of Jacob. NEVER IN RECORDED HISTORY.

The list could go on and on and on.

reply to post by BO XIAN

Israel becoming a nation again in a day in 1948 as prophesied . . .

I'll give a hint. I handicapped myself tremendously when detailing the prophecy earlier. I was extremely conservative in the math. You can actually take the prophecy right down to May 14, 1948. I just showed the year to be simple.

Originally posted by BO XIAN
reply to post by milominderbinder

 

Ok...but WHY is there "absolutely no way they could be self-fulfilling"?

BECAUSE the folks ostensibly in the position to 'self-fulfill'

COULD NOT

BEGIN

to have the CAPACITIES necessary to do so.

I'm talking about prophecies regarding

NATIONS AND LEADERS

Even the 100 or so prophecies about Christ were overwhelmingly impossible for any individual to 'engineer.'

Israel becoming a nation again in a day in 1948 as prophesied . . . what individual engineered that?

Even the British officials working in behalf of that almost blew it right up to the last minute.

How about Hebrew becoming the language used in the restored Israel as Scripture predicted?

THAT'S NEVER HAPPENED with any culture or people even half as dispersed even 1/10th as long as the children of Jacob. NEVER IN RECORDED HISTORY.

The list could go on and on and on.



You people are crazy. The bible was compiled 326 years after the supposed birth of Jesus. It would be something like me putting together a "history" book today that included all sorts of "prophecies" about the coming of George Washington. Not too hard to pull off when it's a few hundred years after the fact.

re: the "1948" prophecy, check the math and the posts above. Best case scenario is about 20 yrs inaccurate.

re: Hebrew being the "chosen" language....you make it sound like the Jews who settled in Israel didn't have copies of the Bible which stated that this was "prophecy". This is the very definition of self-fulfilling.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by milominderbinder

 

Knock yourself out, not that I care:

here

Here

Yes, when presented with incontrovertible proof that spans the PRIMARY documents of the two civilizations actually involved as well as the PHYSICAL evidence from the archeological record and carbon dating, it is always best to simply throw up your hands and say "who cares" rather than actually modify your beliefs to accept the reality around you.

Likewise, much better to support your "beliefs" with a link to a newsletter from The Corporation of The President of Latter Day Saints, who has a vested monetary interest in peddling this sort of nonsense along with an unknown author's recap of the same logical fallacies albeit without any citations whatsoever. (Hint: quoting "Ezekiel 4:4-6" is meaningless unless you have all of the other pertinent information including WHICH Bible, WHEN was it published, FROM WHAT TRANSLATIONS was it derived, etc.

...I love people who "believe in the Bible". I always make sure to ask them which one...given the fact that different Bibles say different things. Did you know that the oldest version of Genesis is the one found in the Koran? Did you know that in the deleted scenes from the Bible Jesus murdered at least four children including his own brother, Jimmy Christ? (i.e. James son of Joseph & Mary). It's all MAKE-BELIEVE...and you are allowing it to guide your politics and cloud your rational thought process.

Above all else, God is a shortcut to thinking for those who would not be troubled by the endeavor of building a rational argument.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


I quite agree.

Folks quibble, of course.

So I usually don't bother. But I certainly believe it totally.

Thanks

Originally posted by BO XIAN
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

I quite agree.

Folks quibble, of course.

So I usually don't bother. But I certainly believe it totally.

Thanks

The manner in which you two guys process information and form conclusions frightens me more than anything else in this world.

I give up.

I truly hope that someday religion just dies out. Humanity will be better for it.

reply to post by milominderbinder


No, the "not that I care" statement was directed at YOU. I really don't care if YOU want to look at those links above or not,.. they are provided though.

Originally posted by milominderbinder

Originally posted by BO XIAN
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

I quite agree.

Folks quibble, of course.

So I usually don't bother. But I certainly believe it totally.

Thanks

The manner in which you two guys process information and form conclusions frightens me more than anything else in this world.

Really now?? lol Perhaps you should see a professional about that irrational terror you feel.

I give up.

Doubtful, people always say that, yet they come right back to the thread, like a dog coming back to their vomit.

I truly hope that someday religion just dies out. Humanity will be better for it.

FINALLY we agree on something, the day religion is history will be the day Jesus comes back. Amen, come soon Lord.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by milominderbinder

 

No, the "not that I care" statement was directed at YOU. I really don't care if YOU want to look at those links above or not,.. they are provided though.

edit on 15-3-2012 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)

Yeah...I did. They are a joke and not academically valid for all of the same reasons I told you your math was wrong previously.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

FINALLY we agree on something, the day religion is history will be the day Jesus comes back. Amen, come soon Lord.

LOL. OK...just for fun let's say there really is a guy named Jesus. If so...why would he come back HERE to "save us"? Do we deserve it? Has humanity done ANYTHING that would make us worthy of such a thing? Remember, we are talking about the same "God" who almost rendered all humans extinct because of "immorality" in the time of Noah.

Have we improved any? All we have done in the last 2000 years as a species is devise better ways to kill, torture, control, and enslave one another with a rare piece of artwork, mathematical discovery, or really nice song that creeps in by accident here and there.

I suppose if you think "belief" is enough...then maybe that whole crazy rapture thing would happen. However, I gotta say, I think that if there really was a God and he ACTUALLY created the whole universe....he's gonna be looking for some more "real world" sort of results than just the ethereal "belief". I think he'd be pretty pissed about those two world wars, the nuclear weapons, and our rampant and careless pollution.

But hey...what do I know.

reply to post by milominderbinder

OK...just for fun let's say there really is a guy named Jesus.

How the hell is that fun? There was a real man named Jesus, no pretending necessary.

Do we deserve it? Has humanity done ANYTHING that would make us worthy of such a thing?

Of course not!!! He decided to redeem us for His own good will and pleasure, certainly not on any merit we deserve.

Remember, we are talking about the same "God" who almost rendered all humans extinct because of "immorality" in the time of Noah.

Read Genesis 6 again, the flood had nothing to do with immorality. And when it said "Noah was perfect in his generation", the term for "perfect" implies perfect in specimen, unblemished. It's a statement about genetics not behavior. You won't even understand most of the judgments of the OT if you don't get Genesis 6 right. Why did God command the death of all people in certain cultures, even the babies?

But hey...what do I know.

Dude, I'm not so sure. The Bible clearly says things will get worse and worse until Christ returns, not better and better. So why this reality we see before us perplexes you when you ponder scripture is beyond this member's ability to figure out.

Originally posted by milominderbinder

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by milominderbinder

 

No, the "not that I care" statement was directed at YOU. I really don't care if YOU want to look at those links above or not,.. they are provided though.

Yeah...I did.

Coolio, so what's the problem? I can only lead the horse to the trough, I can't make him drink.

I told you your math was wrong previously.

Oh, so you're correct because you merely told me that I'm wrong? Oh, okay, well I can debunk that by telling you that you're wrong. Simple enough. Thanks for that, I always thought arbitrary appeals to authority were irrelevant arguments. Debating is going to be so much easier now.

reply to post by milominderbinder

Me:

Doubtful, people always say that, yet they come right back to the thread, like a dog coming back to their vomit.

I thought earlier you said you were "done"?

reply to post by milominderbinder


Evidently you are unaware of recent brain studies indicating we have a 'God shaped vacuum' as one old saint put it--I forget who . . .

i.e. that we are hard wired to seek the transcendent and relate to such in a significant way.

In short, we are hardwired to worship something.

Many of us are convinced that is the Judeo/Christian God of Israel of the Bible.

We are convinced that ALMIGHTY GOD fulfilled every last prophecy regarding Israel who's time for fulfillment came to pass.

And, that HE WILL fulfill the rest of them to the letter.

There's no natural explanation for those prophecies being fulfilled to the letter, nor for Israel, actually.

Just considering Psalm 83 . . . and Israel's enemies arrayed against it . . . has no natural explanation . . . for such an accurate set of prophecies.

Actually, you might examine your assumptions more critically . . . and perhaps find a different way of processing evidence.


.
.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Oh, so you're correct because you merely told me that I'm wrong? Oh, okay, well I can debunk that by telling you that you're wrong. Simple enough. Thanks for that, I always thought arbitrary appeals to authority were irrelevant arguments. Debating is going to be so much easier now.

edit on 15-3-2012 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)

LOL. It's not wrong because "I told you so". It's wrong because the numbers don't add up and you are basing all your calculations on dates that patently false according written historical record, physical evidence, and the general consensus of the world's scholars.

Originally posted by BO XIAN
reply to post by milominderbinder

 

Evidently you are unaware of recent brain studies indicating we have a 'God shaped vacuum' as one old saint put it--I forget who . . .

i.e. that we are hard wired to seek the transcendent and relate to such in a significant way.

In short, we are hardwired to worship something.

Many of us are convinced that is the Judeo/Christian God of Israel of the Bible.

We are convinced that ALMIGHTY GOD fulfilled every last prophecy regarding Israel who's time for fulfillment came to pass.

And, that HE WILL fulfill the rest of them to the letter.

There's no natural explanation for those prophecies being fulfilled to the letter, nor for Israel, actually.

Just considering Psalm 83 . . . and Israel's enemies arrayed against it . . . has no natural explanation . . . for such an accurate set of prophecies.

Actually, you might examine your assumptions more critically . . . and perhaps find a different way of processing evidence.

edit on 15/3/2012 by BO XIAN because: additions

Hmmmm. I must not have that gene. I can remember thinking religion was nuts when I was five years old in Kindergarten. I have not once in my lifetime felt compelled to "worship" anything.

I suppose...it does explain a lot. Might as well tell geese not migrate anymore, huh? Come spring and fall they are just going to go anyway and most likely they don't fully understand why.

Originally posted by rigel4
As always I am only exploring the possabilities for a peaceful solution to the most complex
Issue that exists today in world politics.

Below is a link to the original thread.


www.abovetopsecret.com...

OP has his heart in the right place and the gnawing problem of "middle east land ownership" based on 2,000-3,000 blood feuds must be addressed properly and straight on. added. In an open and transparent process of negotiation.

What was done by the United Nations in 1947-48 can be UN-done, so to speak.

I'd also go for dispatching about 25,000 blue hat UN guards into these areas which have not seen peace in 1,000 years.

Originally posted by milominderbinder

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Oh, so you're correct because you merely told me that I'm wrong? Oh, okay, well I can debunk that by telling you that you're wrong. Simple enough. Thanks for that, I always thought arbitrary appeals to authority were irrelevant arguments. Debating is going to be so much easier now.

LOL. It's not wrong because "I told you so". It's wrong because the numbers don't add up and you are basing all your calculations on dates that patently false according written historical record, physical evidence, and the general consensus of the world's scholars.

So basically, you told me I'm wrong and you're right without sourcing anything whatsoever or showing the errors in the math. (AGAIN) Just stated this to be so, and expect us all to just agree because you said it? Then for a cherry on top you invoke the collective opinion of the consensus of the world's scholars. Really? have you researched what they all say? Is there a website where I can go that's specifically for any consensus's of scholars? Did this consensus get together and make a book I can pick up at Borders?

P.S. "General consensus of the world's scholars" = Argumentum ad populum.