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posted on Mar, 13 2012 @ 02:32 AM
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reply to post by milominderbinder
 


The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and Israel declares that

Heaven and earth will pass away but my Word will never pass away.

Folks have been ridiculing the Bible for centuries.

They have been trying to wipe it off the planet for centuries.

The globalists plan a grand new effort of the same thing.

Ultimately, they will fail though they will destroy tons of Bibles.

Folks will either be broken in humility on it . . . or crushed under the weight of its truths and principles.

Israel will learn anew in the very near future that there's a high price for deserting the God of Jacob and The Book in behalf of materialism and the arm of flesh.

And every prophecy about Israel in The Book will CONTINUE TO COME LITERALLY TRUE as dozens already have.

Ignorance of those facts does not change those facts.




posted on Mar, 13 2012 @ 08:45 AM
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Originally posted by BO XIAN
reply to post by milominderbinder
 


The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and Israel declares that

Heaven and earth will pass away but my Word will never pass away.

Folks have been ridiculing the Bible for centuries.

They have been trying to wipe it off the planet for centuries.

The globalists plan a grand new effort of the same thing.

Ultimately, they will fail though they will destroy tons of Bibles.

Folks will either be broken in humility on it . . . or crushed under the weight of its truths and principles.

Israel will learn anew in the very near future that there's a high price for deserting the God of Jacob and The Book in behalf of materialism and the arm of flesh.

And every prophecy about Israel in The Book will CONTINUE TO COME LITERALLY TRUE as dozens already have.

Ignorance of those facts does not change those facts.


You use the term "facts" pretty loosely.

Ever hear of a self-fulfilling prophecy? They are a whole lot more common that actual "prophecies". Ever stop to think that maybe those "prophecies" haven't been "fullfilled" by chance OR by the mandate of an old man sitting on a cloud somewhere?

It would seem that if you ruled a bunch of people who ACTUALLY believed in such nonsense, then one would have an easy way to "justify" criminal behavior. In short...Israel steals the Palestinians land...then turns around and says "see...the 'prophecy' has been fulfilled!"

How do you not see that?



posted on Mar, 13 2012 @ 08:46 AM
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Originally posted by ScarletWitch
Of course logic would make one think it is a good idea. Taking Israel out of the middle east would be fantastic....

I'm sure the waring and violence would cease, on the same day the last plane left Israel.

Then maybe we could separate the Muslim countries into religious divides...

You should do some actual testing of this theory...

Go into any mobile home community in America(or any country for that matter)..... Find the one person that is despised by all his neighbors, you tell that person "everyone wants you gone" .... Good luck getting him to move...


hehehehehe.

The Middle East = The Trailer Park of The World.

No doubt.



posted on Mar, 13 2012 @ 10:41 AM
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reply to post by milominderbinder
 


You appear to be very poorly informed of those issues and facts.

There's no way most of the prophecies could be self-fulfilling. Absolutely no way.

And the Palestinian issues are most accurately articulated by this Egyptian born Palestinian:

JD FARAQ PRE-TRIB LINKS

www.youtube.com...

Nevertheless, I have little doubt that you will remain unconvinced by anything I could write or post.

Events alone will have to inform you of the facts and realities you seem currently unwilling to accept as true and valid.



posted on Mar, 13 2012 @ 10:49 AM
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reply to post by milominderbinder
 



Ever hear of a self-fulfilling prophecy? They are a whole lot more common that actual "prophecies".


Why would the Jews and Islamic/Muslim nations be doing fulfilling Christian end times prophecies??





posted on Mar, 13 2012 @ 11:06 AM
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Originally posted by BO XIAN
reply to post by milominderbinder
 


You appear to be very poorly informed of those issues and facts.

There's no way most of the prophecies could be self-fulfilling. Absolutely no way.

And the Palestinian issues are most accurately articulated by this Egyptian born Palestinian:

JD FARAQ PRE-TRIB LINKS

www.youtube.com...

Nevertheless, I have little doubt that you will remain unconvinced by anything I could write or post.

Events alone will have to inform you of the facts and realities you seem currently unwilling to accept as true and valid.


Ok...but WHY is there "absolutely no way they could be self-fulfilling"?
edit on 13-3-2012 by milominderbinder because: too quick on the click.



posted on Mar, 13 2012 @ 11:10 AM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by milominderbinder
 



Ever hear of a self-fulfilling prophecy? They are a whole lot more common that actual "prophecies".


Why would the Jews and Islamic/Muslim nations be doing fulfilling Christian end times prophecies??



Because it's politically advantageous to do so.

We "support Israel" because we have enough lunatics in this country who think that's what Jesus would have wanted.

Read "The Great Derangement" by Matt Taibbi.



posted on Mar, 14 2012 @ 12:02 AM
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First off, full disclosure: I am a White male from America, raised Catholic and am 100% completely unbiased on this topic. Just giving my highly educated opinion from the outside looking in.

The Zionist political party completely contradicts many teachings of Judaism, and they are in no way compatible. Not every Jew is a Zionist and not every Zionist is a Jew. However, the state of Israel and it's government is controlled by Zionists. This is not about religion at all. Any "true" rabbi will agree that what Israel is doing defies the practice of Judaism. But many of you are simply too arrogant to comprehend this.

I keep seeing people referring to the Quran, using it as evidence that the land does belong to the Jews. Well, how about you go and read your own book? Doesn't the Torah state that the Jews are forbidden from having their own state and are not meant to return to Israel until after the prophet returns? Where's the prophet? All I see are criminals like Netanyahu.

Add that to the fact that the Balfour Declaration that you use to push the blame off on Britain wouldn't even have happened without the help of Baron Rothschild. Yes, from the same Rothschild family that funded and put Hitler in power. So, your "Jewish (Zionist) State's" creation was made possible by the same creators of Hitler.

And the rate the "anti-semite" term gets thrown around is simply ridiculous. Especially considering that NOTHING is more anti-semitic than Zionism. And newsflash...Arabs are semites too, as well as a dozen other cultures. So not only do Israelis like to steal land, they want to steal the word "semite" for themselves as well (not to mention hummus, falafel, keffiyehs).

Lets also not forget about all the Ethiopian Jews that YOUR country brought to Israel themselves, only to treat them as second rate citizens as well.

It simply baffles me how a group of people that was exterminated by the millions in the name of ethnic cleansing and a man's will to create one pure race can turn around and do the exact same thing to another people, to create their own pure Jewish state.

What "Right to Return" is there for Jews when you or your immediate family were never there originally to begin with? What were your great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great- great-great-great-great-great-grandparents' names that lived there 2,000 years ago? Answer that and you can have the land.

Until then, FREE PALESTINE!



posted on Mar, 14 2012 @ 12:39 AM
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reply to post by milominderbinder
 



Because it's politically advantageous to do so.



Absurd. Please explain how the Jews, the secular world, and the Muslims are all joined in conspiring to "self-fulfill" Christian prophecies. Just because someone writes a book doesn't mean something is a fact.

*CoughMeinKampfCough*



posted on Mar, 14 2012 @ 12:43 AM
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reply to post by milominderbinder
 



Ok...but WHY is there "absolutely no way they could be self-fulfilling"?


Because Jews, the secular world, and Muslim nations are not Christians. When they fulfill Christian prophecy it's by default no longer "self-fulfilling". So instead of shifting the burden of proof, why don't you prove how the secular, Jewish, and Muslim world is helping to purposely-fulfill Christian prophecy. After all, that was your claim.


We "support Israel" because we have enough lunatics in this country who think that's what Jesus would have wanted.


Oh wow! I'm a lunatic? Interesting. Jesus also said to love and serve one's enemies. That's what Christ would do, He'd love them and serve them. And Paul hammers away for 3 chapters in Romans (9, 10, and 11)that God is not yet finished with the Jews and they have a prophetic destiny yet to be realized when the church is removed from the Earth.



edit on 14-3-2012 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 14 2012 @ 09:31 AM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by milominderbinder
 



Because it's politically advantageous to do so.



Absurd. Please explain how the Jews, the secular world, and the Muslims are all joined in conspiring to "self-fulfill" Christian prophecies. Just because someone writes a book doesn't mean something is a fact.

*CoughMeinKampfCough*


Your "anti-semetic" allusion is baseless. I have many, many, friends who are Jewish. Contrary to popular opinion...THERE ARE A WHOLE LOT OF JEWISH PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT IN FAVOR OF ISRAELI government policy either. STOP confusing ethnicity, religion, and a foreign governments policy.

Secondly...there is no "conspiracy" between Jews, the secular world, & the Muslims....nor have I insinuated that there is.

The vast majority of the world views Israel's unlawful occupation of the West Bank with strong disfavor. This is precisely why there are 131 countries in the United Nations which formally recognize Palestine as it's own independent, sovereign state. Here is a link to the map. Note: that the only countries which DO NOT recognize the Palestinian state are essentially US puppet states. link: upload.wikimedia.org...

The Muslim and Arab world simply views the transplant of European Jews after WWII as the West once again pushing it's problems off onto the Arab world and as another call to Crusade. Pope Urban II issued the first call to Crusade as a way to get the knights out of Europe for a while as feudal warfare during the 11th century was reaching absolutely ridiculous proportions of endemic warfare.

After WWII and a nasty little thing called "D-Day" and "Island Hopping" the US and Britain thought it prudent to secure a beachhead in the Middle East, given the fact that they are sitting on so much oil. Thus, they were able to kill "two birds with one stone" by getting the refugee population out of Europe and significantly reducing the odds of BOTH an anti-semetic "Hitler 2.0" AND the danger of an equivalent Jewish version seeking retribution on the Aryans.

Great for the West...however "Israel" was previously "Palestine"...and all those Palestinians just became refugees into Arab lands. It would be the equivalent of China & Russia giving Texas back to Mexico and then the other 49 states having to deal with a whole hell of a lot of homeless and disaffected Texans looking for new homes.

You would be pissed too.

Thus, this idiotic and ignorant blind allegiance to Israel is wrapped up in all this nonsensical religious "prophecy" and peddled like crack to right-wing religious junkies who simply cannot get enough. No surprise that the political party which historically is the most "Christian" is also the one which whores itself out to oil companies the most.

A shattered and divided Middle East and/or a Middle East which has it's oil export ability severely curtailed through sanctions and the destruction of infrastructure is just wonderful for the price of oil. LESS COMPETITION = HIGHER PRICES.

Although in fairness over the last 10-20 yrs or so the two political parties have essentially merged into one gigantic corrupt mass who essentially put on a theatrical spectacle to let the public think that they are somehow different from one another.

Again...how do you not see this???



posted on Mar, 14 2012 @ 09:56 AM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by milominderbinder
 




Because Jews, the secular world, and Muslim nations are not Christians. When they fulfill Christian prophecy it's by default no longer "self-fulfilling". So instead of shifting the burden of proof, why don't you prove how the secular, Jewish, and Muslim world is helping to purposely-fulfill Christian prophecy. After all, that was your claim.


That is NOT what I said...but see the post previous post re: your anti-semite remark. That should clear some it up for you.



Oh wow! I'm a lunatic? Interesting. Jesus also said to love and serve one's enemies. That's what Christ would do, He'd love them and serve them. And Paul hammers away for 3 chapters in Romans (9, 10, and 11)that God is not yet finished with the Jews and they have a prophetic destiny yet to be realized when the church is removed from the Earth.


At no point did I say you are a lunatic. However, if you happen to feel that way...hey...who am I to argue with you.

Based upon your assertion above, legend has it that "Jesus also said to love and serve one's enemies". Soooo...wouldn't that seem to indicate that Jesus would us to stop threatening Iran immediately and even HELP them build a nuclear reactor? I mean...that's "love and service" of one's enemies, right? Likewise, Jesus presumably would have wanted us to give Bin Laden a hug and a hallmark card, right? Maybe some free medical care since I hear that J.C. was big on helping out the poor and the sick and I know Bin Laden had some bad kidneys. I mean...according to YOUR OWN LOGIC...that would be "love and service of one's enemies", right?

I guess I'm assuming you don't consider ISRAEL to be an "enemy" given all the "prophecy" talk. Plus...it probably doesn't make sense to really have to instruct people to "love and serve their buddies"...because one would imagine that they are already doing this, correct? I mean...if God's own ambassador to mankind was saying "love and serve one's enemies...and bomb the piss out of friends and family" it would seem a bit schizophrenic for an omniscient, omnipotent, and purportedly benevolent being that exists outside the realm of linear time.

...and this is, of course, coming from a compilation of religious texts which did not exist until AFTER 325 A.D. when the First Council of Nicea got together to edit, delete, and rearrange the disparate and conflicting Christian texts at the bequest of the Roman Emperor Constantine in order to have a more coherent MANDATORY STATE-RUN RELIGION.

Subsequently, this MAN-MADE & HIGHLY EDITED religious text was then subjected to another 1700-ish years of translations, re-writes by monarchs, a heavy-editing party known as The Second Council of Nicea, fragmentation into innumerable competing sects, and even a convicted felon's insertion of a new gospel as purportedly dictated from an angel named MORONI. Yes...that's the word "moron" + the letter "i".

...yes...truly the "Word of God". It MUST be true, because those who "believe" this nonsense which runs contradictory to any and all observable evidence and deductive principles get the magical Golden Ticket to go to Willy Wonka's Chocolate Factory or whatever, right?

It's a matter of "faith".

LOL.



posted on Mar, 14 2012 @ 10:33 AM
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reply to post by milominderbinder
 



That is NOT what I said....



yes it is:


Ever hear of a self-fulfilling prophecy? They are a whole lot more common that actual "prophecies".



You claimed fulfilled Christian prophecies are only "self-fulfilled". Did I misunderstand? Were you talking about Muslim prophecies were the one's being "self-fulfilled"?



posted on Mar, 14 2012 @ 10:34 AM
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reply to post by milominderbinder
 


I never alluded to YOU being an anti-Semite. I alluded to "Mein Kampf" as an example that just because someone writes a book doesn't make the contents of said book fact.


Again...how do you not see this???


Because Israel was returned to the land and regathered the "second time" the exact day the OT prophet said it would happen. What else more do I need from the Lord, as far as confirmation goes, than that?




edit on 14-3-2012 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 14 2012 @ 10:40 AM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by milominderbinder
 



That is NOT what I said....



yes it is:


Ever hear of a self-fulfilling prophecy? They are a whole lot more common that actual "prophecies".



You claimed fulfilled Christian prophecies are only "self-fulfilled". Did I misunderstand? Were you talking about Muslim prophecies were the one's being "self-fulfilled"?


No. You were right in the idea that I think Christian "prophecies" are self-fulfilled at best...horoscope parlor tricks at worst. However this idea that there is some sort of three-way religious conspiracy to fulfill them emanated only from your head.

Israel's seizure of Palestinian lands against the rule of international treaty and law in no way benefits Muslims (as a group) that I can discern.



posted on Mar, 14 2012 @ 10:51 AM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by milominderbinder
 




I never alluded to YOU being an anti-Semite. I alluded to "Mein Kampf" as an example that just because someone writes a book doesn't make the contents of said book fact.


Well...we agree on one thing. Being printed in a book certainly doesn't mean it's a fact. We should note that the Bible is also a book.



Because Israel was returned to the land and regathered the "second time" the exact day the OT prophet said it would happen. What else more do I need from the Lord, as far as confirmation goes, than that?


I have no idea what "you need from the Lord". Apparently, it's a hell of a lot less than I do. Secondly...do tell how the Old Testament Prophet was able to specifically cite an exact date when the Gregorian calendrical system was not put into place until 1582 AD much less the fact that the Catholic Church cannot even agree upon what year it is today given that estimates for Christ's birth range a span of at least five years with the year "0" being nonexistent in all of them.

Something tells me that "prophetic" math might be a bit off.
LOL.



edit on 14-3-2012 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 14 2012 @ 10:58 AM
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Originally posted by milominderbinder

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by milominderbinder
 



That is NOT what I said....



yes it is:


Ever hear of a self-fulfilling prophecy? They are a whole lot more common that actual "prophecies".



You claimed fulfilled Christian prophecies are only "self-fulfilled". Did I misunderstand? Were you talking about Muslim prophecies were the one's being "self-fulfilled"?


No. You were right in the idea that I think Christian "prophecies" are self-fulfilled at best...horoscope parlor tricks at worst. However this idea that there is some sort of three-way religious conspiracy to fulfill them emanated only from your head.

Israel's seizure of Palestinian lands against the rule of international treaty and law in no way benefits Muslims (as a group) that I can discern.


Okay, so I was correct and you did in fact say that,.. I thought so. Now take your ideas to their logical conclusion. When Israel, secular nations, and Muslim ones fulfill Christian prophecy it therefore must be because they have conspired to do so with Christians correct? You've already said if Christian prophecies are fulfilled it's only by "self-fulfillment".


edit on 14-3-2012 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 14 2012 @ 11:20 AM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical

You claimed fulfilled Christian prophecies are only "self-fulfilled". Did I misunderstand? Were you talking about Muslim prophecies were the one's being "self-fulfilled"?


No. You were right in the idea that I think Christian "prophecies" are self-fulfilled at best...horoscope parlor tricks at worst. However this idea that there is some sort of three-way religious conspiracy to fulfill them emanated only from your head.



Israel's seizure of Palestinian lands against the rule of international treaty and law in no way benefits Muslims (as a group) that I can discern.


Okay, so I was correct and you did in fact say that,.. I thought so. Now take your ideas to their logical conclusion. When Israel, secular nations, and Muslim ones fulfill Christian prophecy it therefore must be because they have conspired to do so with Christians correct? You've already said if Christian prophecies are fulfilled it's only by "self-fulfillment".

That's not LOGIC!! It's the antithesis of logic. Seriously dude...you are hilarious. In your paragraph above (starting with "Okay" and ending with "self-fulfillment") here are the errors to the formal rules of logic which any high school debate team is required to operate by followed by an explanation and example:

1. Argument from final Consequences- Such arguments (also called teleological) are based on a reversal of cause and effect, because they argue that something is caused by the ultimate effect that it has, or purpose that is serve.

2. Argument from Personal Incredulity- I cannot explain or understand this, therefore it cannot be true. Creationists are fond of arguing that they cannot imagine the complexity of life resulting from blind evolution, but that does not mean life did not evolve.

3. Begging the Question
The term “begging the question” is often misused to mean “raises the question,” (and common use will likely change, or at least add this new, definition). However, the intended meaning is to assume a conclusion in one’s question. This is similar to circular reasoning, and an argument is trying to slip in a conclusion in a premise or question. The classic example of begging the question is to ask someone if they have stopped beating their wife yet. Of course, the question assumes that they every beat their wife (i.e. "What other proof from the Lord do I need?")

4. Confusing association with causation- This is similar to the post-hoc fallacy in that it assumes cause and effect for two variables simply because they occur together. This fallacy is often used to give a statistical correlation a causal interpretation. For example, during the 1990’s both religious attendance and illegal drug use have been on the rise. It would be a fallacy to conclude that therefore, religious attendance causes illegal drug use. It is also possible that drug use leads to an increase in religious attendance, or that both drug use and religious attendance are increased by a third variable, such as an increase in societal unrest. It is also possible that both variables are independent of one another, and it is mere coincidence that they are both increasing at the same time.

5. Confusing currently unexplained with unexplainable- Because we do not currently have an adequate explanation for a phenomenon does not mean that it is forever unexplainable, or that it therefore defies the laws of nature or requires a paranormal explanation. An example of this is the "God of the Gapsa" strategy of creationists that whatever we cannot currently explain is unexplainable and was therefore an act of god.

6. False Dichotomy- Arbitrarily reducing a set of many possibilities to only two. For example, evolution is not possible, therefore we must have been created (assumes these are the only two possibilities). This fallacy can also be used to oversimplify a continuum of variation to two black and white choices. For example, science and pseudoscience are not two discrete entities, but rather the methods and claims of all those who attempt to explain reality fall along a continuum from one extreme to the other. (i.e. Assuming that either "it's prophecy" or ALL of the secular nations, muslim nations, & Israel are working in unison...when in fact, it might only be certain parties which have similar interests albeit for vastly differing reasons).

7. Straw Man- A straw man argument attempts to counter a position by attacking a different position – usually one that is easier to counter. The arguer invents a caricature of his opponent’s position – a “straw man” – that is easily refuted, but not the position that his opponent actually holds. (this incessant insinuation that Muslims somehow have an interest and/or aided in prophetic fulfillment).

Out of space...many, many more. It's like you set out to violate every rule of Western Thought in a single paragraph.

Hilarious.



posted on Mar, 14 2012 @ 11:24 AM
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reply to post by milominderbinder
 



Secondly...do tell how the Old Testament Prophet was able to specifically cite an exact date when the Gregorian calendrical system was not put into place until 1582 AD much less the fact that the Catholic Church cannot even agree upon what year it is today given that estimates for Christ's birth range a span of at least five years with the year "0" being nonexistent in all of them.


Irrelevant. You can factor in Gregorian reckoning over Jewish reckoning with math.

Here ya go, the EXACT year of Israel's "second" regathering:

Prophecy #1:


"And this whole land shall be a desolation and astonishment. And these nations shall serve the
king of Babylon seventy years." ~ Jeremiah 25:11



Prophecy #2:


"Lie also on your left side, and lay the iniquity of the house of Israel upon it. According to the
number of days that you lie on it, you shall bear their iniquity. For I have laid on you the years of their iniquity,
according to the number of the days, 390 days so you shall bear the iniquity of the house of Israel. And when
you have completed them, lie again on your right site. Then you shall bear the iniquity of the house of Judah for
40 days. I have laid on you a day for each year." ~ Ezekiel 4:4-6



1. Biblical and Secular history both say the Babylonian captivity began in the springtime of 606 BC.
2. 70 years after 606 BC is 536 BC.
3. God told Ezekiel the Jews would suffer for 430 years for their sins (390 days for Israel, 40 days for Judah). They already were exiled 70 years for the Babylonian captivity. There remains 360 years left:

Prophecy #3:


“And after all this, if you do not obey Me, then I will punish you seven times more for your sins.” ~ Leviticus 26:18



4. God told the Jews previously that if after being judged they still do not repent, he will multiply their original judgment by 7 times.
5. 360 remaining prophetic years of judgment multiplied by 7 is 2,520 literal calendar years of judgment.
6. Convert 2,520 Jewish reckoned years into Gregorian reckoned years:

7. 2,520 X 360 = 907,200 days, 907,200 days divided by 365.25 days for a Gregorian calendar = 2,483 calendar Gregorian reckoned years.


8: Year 536 BC + 2,483 years of judgment that remained on the house of Israel is an end year of:

1948 (no year "0")


1948 was the prophesied exact year that Israel was to be regathered "a second time', and they were.


edit on 14-3-2012 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 14 2012 @ 11:35 AM
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reply to post by milominderbinder
 


Hey man, don't get mad at me, you claimed Christian prophecies were only "self-fulfilled". That's your claim, that's your baby, you need to rock it to sleep. But you have a big glaring problem with your assertion. What about when Israel fulfills Christian prophecy? What about when the nations of the world fulfill Christian prophecy? What about when Muslim nations fulfill Christian prophecy?

Are all these non-Christian entities conspiring with Christians to self-fulfill Christian prophecies? You need to explain why secular, Jewish, and Muslim nations are likewise fulfilling Christian prophecies. How do you harmonize these two things?? All Christian fulfilled prophecies are only self-fulfilled and non-Christian nations fulfilling Christian prophecy.

Don't get mad at me because your superior logic had backed you into an indefensible position. You should know about the law of non-contradiction. You cannot have two contradictory things both be true simultaneously.



edit on 14-3-2012 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)





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