Lesbian Woman Denied Communion at Mother's Funeral

Originally posted by InfoKartel
reply to post by FlyersFan

 

So as far as he's concerned .. it was compassionate.

That is the way of thinking of despots. Of psychopaths. Of religious nutjobs. It is not a sane way to think, let alone to follow such religiotards and their claims or even try and find some support for their claims because, via via they support your cause. WINK WINK.

I have no idea what any of that blah blah blah means.

The fact is .. according to his church he did the right thing.
The fact is .. according to that faith, he saved her from committing a grave sin
(having holy communion while in a state of mortal sin) so he sees what he did as compassion.
The fact is .. according to that church recieving communion means you agree with the church.
The fact is .. according to the lesbian, she doesn't agree with the church so she shouldn't want it anyways.
The fact is .. if you disagree with the church then you can LEAVE.

I'm probably misunderstanding the point of many of the posters, but on the outside chance that they are not understanding me, let me try another analogy.

An athlete joins up with a team, but decides to skip practices. In fact, instead of going to practice he hangs out at the bar when the team's training rules specifically forbid alcohol. He even gives interviews to the local press while he's there and word gets back to the coach.

The biggest game of the season comes up and the wayward player shows up and grabs for his jersey. The coach takes it away and says "You don't get to wear this jersey until you get back into training with the rest of the team." The player then throws a chair and gives interviews to the press about how unfair it was that he has to sit out this big game.

The players supporters criticize the coach, saying "The no alcohol rule is stupid, who is coach to enforce the team owner's rules, it was not fair to keep the player from the big game, maybe the player has agreed in his heart to rejoin the team in training, sure the player could go to another team, but he really likes this team's jersey, it really hurt the player's feelings." But the coach says "Listen, he'll be a better player if he can learn some self-control and teamwork. I'm doing it for his good. I'd really like him on the team, but he'll just be a disruptive influence until we can get him back in line with our program."

Does that help explain things?

With respect,
Charles1952

I don't know why anyone who is actively gay, lesbian, or transgender would want to be a part of the Catholic church anyways. The church is very clear that it disapproves and obviously if someone is sexually active in that manner then they disagree with the church. The Episcopal church is really just 'Catholic-Lite' and they are rather accepting. I would think folks who were homosexual and were wanting to stay sexual active would just go down the road to the Episcopal church.

There are some who claim the "victim" in this case made a show of her lesbian lover before the priest and that he was prevented from advising her against receiving Holy Communion.

Fr. Guarnizo may have been forcibly denied the opportunity to expand on his conversation. A commenter on Deacon Greg Kandra’s blog, who claimed to have been “in a meeting with Fr Marcel and heard the whole story,” wrote: “The woman in question brought her lesbian partner into the vesting sacristy just before the funeral Mass and made sure to introduce her partner to Fr. Marcel, introducing her as her ‘lover’. He told her then that she should not present herself for Communion.” A commenter claimed Barbara’s partner “blocked his way out of the sacristy when he attempted to speak with her further.”

Life Site News
Deacon's bench
Deacon's bench

There may be more to this story than meets the eye. This may have been an attempt to use her mother's funeral to score points against the Church by creating a scene and making the priest look bad.

In any case, the girl should have known better if she was raised in a Catholic family. You mean to tell me she lived her whole life without hearing anything about the Catholic teaching on homosexuality?

IMO, she is the one who turned her mother's funeral into a circus and she is the one who is wrong in this instance.

Many people don't know that it is also a mortal sin for the PRIEST to knowingly administer the body and blood of Christ to one they know is in a state of mortal sin. By stepping forward in line to receive communion, she put the priest's own soul into mortal peril.

reply to post by MysticPearl

What does everyone think about this? Does a Catholic priest have the right to deny communion to a lesbian woman at her mother's funeral? I find the act to be quite cruel and feel terrible for the woman, can't imagine being in that situation, and don't think a priest should pass such judgement at such a time.

Anyone that takes communion unworthily will bring destruction on themselves. A homosexual woman would fit in the category of being unworthy as she refuses to come out of the ways of the world. The priest did the right thing, he probably didn't want to be responsible for bringing destruction onto her and she should know better than to even try to take it living in sin.

reply to post by FlyersFan


What a compassionate priest does is talk to her beforehand, tell her why he can't give her communion, but instead will give her a blessing.

A compassionate priest does NOT:

humiliate someone in front of their entire family at their very devout mother's funeral.

A compassionate priest DOES NOT, agree to do the funeral, only to leave the devout believer's funeral simply because he believes the daughter's homosexuality is a sin. Because the mother did nothing wrong. So to use it to grandstand against another member of the family has no religious background to it, but is political grandstanding.

Which makes him no better then the scum of the Westboro Baptist Church.

He disprespected the dead, he disrespected the dead's entire family, he used a church ceremony for political grandstanding.

The only one rotting in hell is this guy.

reply to post by FortAnthem


Or its a smear campaign by the church to protect the priest.

Because the catholic church has NEVER done that before.

reply to post by nixie_nox


I hear you nixie_nox ... but I think you must have missed this part that was previously posted ...

Fr. Guarnizo may have been forcibly denied the opportunity to expand on his conversation. A commenter on Deacon Greg Kandra’s blog, who claimed to have been “in a meeting with Fr Marcel and heard the whole story,” wrote: “The woman in question brought her lesbian partner into the vesting sacristy just before the funeral Mass and made sure to introduce her partner to Fr. Marcel, introducing her as her ‘lover’. He told her then that she should not present herself for Communion.” A commenter claimed Barbara’s partner “blocked his way out of the sacristy when he attempted to speak with her further.”

Life Site News

It was the lesbian who was behaving in a manner that she shouldn't at her mothers funeral. She never should have gotten in the priests face before the service. She basically challenged him to deny her communion at the service. The lesbian was the one being disrespectful .. disrespectful to the Church and to her mothers faith and to her mothers funeral. She gave the priest no choice.

I don't understand the problem with what the priest did (mostly). As a customer I would be infuriated if the "job" wasn't completed because of this issue. With that said, let's stop pretending that the lesbian woman did not know that homosexuality is not accepted in the Catholic church. She has removed herself from the church and, by proxy, the "right" to communion.

Mostly off topic: As for statements asking if she was "flaunting" her homosexuality.... what does that even mean? If I am holding my partner's hand, it is fairly obvious that I am gay. If I am holding my husband's hand, it is fairly obvious that I am straight. Is this flaunting? What about leaning on a partner's shoulder or putting your arm around them for support? I do think using the word "lover" may at the flaunting level, but I think many people see much less as an in your face thing.

The saddest part of this story is that the woman, during the funeral even, used the death of her mother to promote a political viewpoint.

reply to post by nixie_nox


All I hear from this girl is wah, wah, wah, my poor little feelings were hurt, like this is the worst thing that can possibly happen in the world.

From most accounts, the priest discretely wispered to her that she was not in the proper state to receive communion. He did not call her out in front of the whole Church and it would have been a matter between only her and the priest if she didn't make a Federal case out of it.

Now, the priest has been formally reprimanded for performing his duties as he should have but, NOOooo, that's not enough for this whiny little brat.

Afterwards, she wrote him a letter telling him, “I will do everything in my power to see that you are removed from parish life so that you will not be permitted to harm any more families.”

Auxiliary Bishop Barry Knestout wrote a formal letter of apology telling Johnson, “I am sorry that what should have been a celebration of your mother’s life, in light of her faith in Jesus Christ, was overshadowed by a lack of pastoral sensitivity.”

After receiving the letter of apology, Johnson said “I will not be satisfied” until Fr. Guarnizo is removed from the parish.

LSN

Apparently the lessons on the Church's teaching on homosexuality aren't the only ones she missed; she must have slept through the classes on forgiveness as well because nothing short of this priest's head on a platter will do for her.


When someone makes a mountain out of a molehill and starts screaming about how they were made a victim in today's world, I have to question their motives. Who wants to bet that she hasn't made some money from TV appearances and that her story hasn't made people open their pockets to gay rights groups and Anti-Church special interest groups?

She's playing this insignificant little episode in her life for all its worth and enjoying her 15 minutes of fame. If she had just shut up and gone back to her seat, no one would have been the wiser and no embarassment would have occured on anyone's part.

Who do you think ran to the press with this story in the first place? Hardly the act of someone who was embarassed at being denied communion in Church.

Originally posted by Larrelye
As for statements asking if she was "flaunting" her homosexuality.... what does that even mean?

She basically jumped the priest right before the funeral .. while he was in the sacristy .. got in his face about her being a lesbian and that she brought her lover. They then got intimidating with him. If the woman had just behaved like everyone else and kept her bedroom adventures to herself, nothing would have happened.

Instead, she used the funeral for her own purposes. She disrespected the church her mother loved, and she disrespected her mothers funeral.

The priest was acting correctly, according to his faith.
She was not acting correctly and she is selfish.

reply to post by MysticPearl


I wouldn't be too heart broken over it.

A Priest has no power what so ever and is not god's voice and can't speak with him/it.

The Priest can't give you a better chance of getting into heaven, for a priest is not the decider.

Those who give in to the church are blind ( another word for gullible or easily tricked and nice way of saying not smart enough yet ) to see that those we trust most with power, are not responsible enough with it and actually have no true power to begin with.

That Priest did not put that lady on this earth, nor does he have any effect on what happens to her soul once she is not on this planet any more.


Why don't people see this ? O yea they are blind and love it.

reply to post by mainidh


Considering it was her mother's funeral, I don't think she was off in a corner scissoring with her partner. The priest's behavior disgusts me. The Church is a joke and needs to abolished.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
reply to post by nixie_nox

 

I hear you nixie_nox ... but I think you must have missed this part that was previously posted ...

Fr. Guarnizo may have been forcibly denied the opportunity to expand on his conversation. A commenter on Deacon Greg Kandra’s blog, who claimed to have been “in a meeting with Fr Marcel and heard the whole story,” wrote: “The woman in question brought her lesbian partner into the vesting sacristy just before the funeral Mass and made sure to introduce her partner to Fr. Marcel, introducing her as her ‘lover’. He told her then that she should not present herself for Communion.” A commenter claimed Barbara’s partner “blocked his way out of the sacristy when he attempted to speak with her further.”

Life Site News

It was the lesbian who was behaving in a manner that she shouldn't at her mothers funeral. She never should have gotten in the priests face before the service. She basically challenged him to deny her communion at the service. The lesbian was the one being disrespectful .. disrespectful to the Church and to her mothers faith and to her mothers funeral. She gave the priest no choice.

IN which I responded already that who is to say that the church isn't on a smear campaign to protect its priest.

These are supposed to be educated men. Two wrongs don't make a right, and no one MADE him do anything.

reply to post by FortAnthem


Oh, so you were personally there and know exactly how both parties were behaving?
Glad you have psychic abilities and mentally traveled there to witness the whole thing.

I can tell you that if a priest disrupted my mother's funeral, a note of apology would be nothing to me.

Originally posted by Wolf321
Catholics consider homosexuality a mortal sin. If the woman had made confession before the service and was in a state of grace then they can receive communion. If not, it should not have come as a surprise that she was not allowed.

Homosexuality is considered a mortal sin and a person practicing homosexuality would not be in a state of grace.

The requirement for sacramental confession can be dispensed if four conditions are fulfilled: (1) there must be a grave reason to receive Communion (for example, danger of death), (2) it must be physically or morally impossible to go to confession first, (3) the person must already be in a state of grace through perfect contrition, and (4) he must resolve to go to confession as soon as possible.

Source

By that logic, half of the priests should´nt even be allowed to pass communion.

reply to post by nixie_nox

Of course, none of us were there, but I'd like you to try to answer a question I've had about all this. How did the priest know? And don't just say, "I don't know how he knew," give me some possibilities. Perhaps she told him? Perhaps the entire community knew about it, and he found out that way? How else could it have been?

If she told him and asked for forgiveness and repented, he would have given her Communion. If she said "Sure, I'm sleeping with someone outside of marriage and I'm not going to change," then I can see where Communion would be a mistake. What do you think could possibly have happened that would have made it proper, under Church law, to give her Communion?

Sure, I never want anybody to be hurt, but I also don't want to blame anyone wrongly. So explain to me how she was in the right under Church law.

Originally posted by RealSpoke
Who is the priest to judge? Whatever happened to "Forgive them father for they know not what they do"?

Religious nuts are sickening. They don't even know how to follow their own religious book.

"Forgive them, Father,..."
This was particularly asked by Christ regarding his own condemnation. The Jews determined that he was worthy of death for proclaiming to be the Son of God. And this he did not deny. More so, he reminded the Jews that it is all of us who are "judges" (John 10, John 17, Psalms 82).

Psalms 82: 6-7
“I said, ‘You are “gods”; you are all sons of the Most High.’
But you will die like mere mortals; you will fall like every other ruler.”

Here, the term "gods" is elohim. Certainly, this is not exactly the same as Elohim "Creator," but it is elohim "created." The teaching goes that believers are "Brothers and Sisters of Christ," so this should not be alarming. However, in our modern world, this mystery is nearly entirely missed and even despised by many "christians."

The confusion that overtook the Jews is that they believed that they could obtain their spiritual inheritance, and that is a very common misunderstanding in today's world also, but Christ's teaching is that the inheritance is spiritually gifted and not obtained by will or works. More so, Christ came to be that provision, even to open up the womb of the world/our vessels to become prepared for birth just as the spirit enters into a person to conceive a new being inside of them. This is particularly why communion was given to us as a ritual. Not because it has a physical effect, but as a reminder that we are all "one." As Christ is believed to be the Creator and Redeemer, he brought the creation up from the void into the world, and also from the world into the next realm.

So then, both as a human and also as a church "official" the priest in this matter is a judge. Particularly, in the days of the tribes, priests were given the title "judge" and that would not be inaccurate for priests today, nor for for believers of all "levels" in general.

We should not be afraid to judge. It is what keeps us from throwing away good food and keeps us from consuming bad food. Bad food is condemned because of what it is, not because we judge it. BUT!, let us not condemn each other where we do not have authority or full clarity of observation.

How we judge is how we will be judged.

Lastly, my own take on this matter is that it really doesn't matter.
The ritual of communion has been nearly fully perverted regarding the remembrance of wisdom, so why is there any stress on either side of this issue? I hope that charity and order will increase in all involved.

reply to post by ImaMuslim

Please,please do consider this: There are lesbian woman who are considerate of other's feelings,kind,caring decent women who would sacrifice their lives for another,specialy children..who spend their whole lives trying to make a positive differnce in this world-and you get straight woman who are cold,self-centred,mercenary,uncaring,shallow people..Your worth as a person is,or SHOULD be determined by how you conduct your life,and how you treat other people,animals and the planet..This holds true for every individual on the planet,regardless of color,religion,sexual orientation,etc.And no,im defending her cus im lesbian,im a straight married woman.
I have to say,it hurts my feelings very much when some one says something like you did.Because,even if the Illuninati/Dark Cabal/Secret Government all had to dissapear in a puff of smoke in 2 minutes' time,HOW are we gonna ever have a world free of hate,wars,division and suffering,if people focus on what they find unacceptable in others,on differences,instead of judging each person on that individual's own merit?If people keep feeling hostility towards others just because they dont agree with,for instance,their sexual orientation,like in this case..Please,i wish you would reconsider the way you think.

wait wait wait........

So the reaction to burning a Koran over seas is acceptable because its their holy book....

The hangings of homosexuals to some is none of our business because people claim its against their religion and in turn against the law of the land........

People say we have no right to decide how they do things depending on how THEIR RELIGION.....ISLAM , works....

But this preacher should be Fired, and ASHAMED because he held fast to HIS religion which is Christianity?


My god people, do you even SEE the hypocrisy and blatant apologist mentality!