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Lesbian Woman Denied Communion at Mother's Funeral

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posted on Mar, 1 2012 @ 06:28 PM
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reply to post by MysticPearl
 


Sounds fair to me.

If she isn't repentant of her sin, she can't be forgiven.




posted on Mar, 1 2012 @ 06:36 PM
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First of all let me admit that I dislike the Catholic way of life. Second, I assume that the lesbian woman knew full well that her sexual preference goes against the beliefs that Catholics hold, and maybe she knew what the communion meant to these adherents, I mean c'mon, it aint just bread and wine in the Catholic adherent's perspective. Thirdly, we know that she was reciting the rosary, I wonder how did she feel, praying to Mary, the "holy mother of God", only to be refused some bread and wine, now she's wrathful and is apparently looking to disgrace the folks who pissed her off. Everyone holds the religious responsible for their lack of unconditional love, yet look at some of these comments here on this thread. The mentality here for the most part seems to be: "OH! You don't LOVE me?!?! You ought to be corporally punished, if not, held under contempt, mocked, ridiculed, destroyed. There, I feel better." The irony is astounding, all he did was deny her a small circle cracker and a taste of cheap wine, and look at how all the well-to-do people retalliate. Amazing. I am nowhere near perfect, but I hope most of you understand what I am saying. Of course there's a lot of people here with some common sense enough to know that she had no buisness demanding their sacred stuff.
edit on 10/01/11 by Wonders because: to add



posted on Mar, 1 2012 @ 06:57 PM
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Why is it that we as a society are happy to adhere and accept the rules of any sport we play, allow an umpire or referee tell us how we should play or when and if we can play and try hard to play within the rules, then deny that same right be practiced within a faith.
If you are not happy, just leave. If you want to be part of the system play by the rules.
Catholics? Who can work it out?



posted on Mar, 1 2012 @ 07:06 PM
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Originally posted by FlyersFan
reply to post by nixie_nox
 


The Archdiosese statement is wrong and is against Church teaching.

I will take the Archdiosese's word over yours. Especially since in your last post, you behaved in a manor that is completely contradicting Christ's teachings.

Originally posted by nixie_nox
You want to bash this woman so badly and side with the church ..


Wrong. I dont know her and I don't care. Why on earth would I want badly to bash her?

If you didn't care, you wouldn't of spent several posts talking about how she deserved what she got because she behaved horribly.
You were just giving church policy up to that point till you started quoting a point made by an anti-gay religious website, as if the information they gave was gospel.
In three different responses!

It was the lesbian who was behaving in a manner that she shouldn't at her mothers funeral. She never should have gotten in the priests face before the service. She basically challenged him to deny her communion at the service. The lesbian was the one being disrespectful .. disrespectful to the Church and to her mothers faith and to her mothers funeral. She gave the priest no choice.


She basically jumped the priest right before the funeral .. while he was in the sacristy .. got in his face about her being a lesbian and that she brought her lover. They then got intimidating with him. If the woman had just behaved like everyone else and kept her bedroom adventures to herself, nothing would have happened. Instead, she used the funeral for her own purposes. She disrespected the church her mother loved, and she disrespected her mothers funeral. The priest was acting correctly, according to his faith. She was not acting correctly and she is selfish


"I don't think she was off in a corner scissoring with her partner." She kinda was. She and her partner got up in the priests face while he was in the sacristy getting ready for mass. It was uncalled for behavior on her part. Unnecessary. She could have just kept her mouth shut and sat with her partner and everyone would have been just fine and the funeral would have gone off just fine. But she had to push her agenda ... which was disrespectful to both the church and her mother.

So not only did you go out of your way three different times to slander her off of a religious zealot website, you never once questioned the agenda of the priest, only justified his actions with protocol.

Dont' even try to make this a gay-hate thing. You'd be soooooooo far off!

I didn't say that, but now that you bring it up (feeling guilty?)
Your the one making false accusations that she might as well been scissoring with her partner in the church, that she was telling the priest bedroom adventers,and you referred to her like this:

It was the lesbian who was behaving in a manner that she shouldn't

do you even know her name, or is she just "that lesbian"?

Your actions are disturbing.


So I'm disturbing someone who makes no sense (that'd be you) ... whatever.

Oh I am making plenty of sense. And in case you didn't understand again, I just laid it out for you.
But just to make sure we are clear:
You have yet to analyze any evidence of actual reported information that has been provided, instead you quote and cling to a slanderous, anti-gay, religious website and their reporting,and then made up actions for the person so you can make them seem even worse for simply being upset for being denied communion at their own mother's funeral.

And you are a pathetic excuse for a Christian.


OUCH .. BRRRRRR ...

Actually, I think hell is supposed to be hot.
And you are the exact reason that people think Christians are hypocrites:
Exodus 20:16
You shall not give false testimony against your neighbor.
Leviticus 19:16
Do not go about spreading slander among your people.
You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
Yet you just lied and slandered a person in the media that you don't even know, purposely for everyone to see on this site, for being a sinner.
Matthew 7:1-5 ESV / 1,191 helpful votes

“Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. W"



Actually, you are trying to paint the Catholic church as the 'bad ones' when in fact the priest was only doing what he was supposed to do according to his religion and the woman was being obnoxious. Careful nixie_nox .. your anti-Catholicism bigotry is showing

Such a sad attempt at deflection.
And your calling me a bigot? *laughs* coming from a slanderer and liar, I won't take that accusation too seriously.



posted on Mar, 1 2012 @ 07:06 PM
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Originally posted by FlyersFan
reply to post by nixie_nox
 


The Archdiosese statement is wrong and is against Church teaching.

I will take the Archdiosese's word over yours. Especially since in your last post, you behaved in a manor that is completely contradicting Christ's teachings.

Originally posted by nixie_nox
You want to bash this woman so badly and side with the church ..


Wrong. I dont know her and I don't care. Why on earth would I want badly to bash her?

If you didn't care, you wouldn't of spent several posts talking about how she deserved what she got because she behaved horribly.
You were just giving church policy up to that point till you started quoting a point made by an anti-gay religious website, as if the information they gave was gospel.
In three different responses!

It was the lesbian who was behaving in a manner that she shouldn't at her mothers funeral. She never should have gotten in the priests face before the service. She basically challenged him to deny her communion at the service. The lesbian was the one being disrespectful .. disrespectful to the Church and to her mothers faith and to her mothers funeral. She gave the priest no choice.


She basically jumped the priest right before the funeral .. while he was in the sacristy .. got in his face about her being a lesbian and that she brought her lover. They then got intimidating with him. If the woman had just behaved like everyone else and kept her bedroom adventures to herself, nothing would have happened. Instead, she used the funeral for her own purposes. She disrespected the church her mother loved, and she disrespected her mothers funeral. The priest was acting correctly, according to his faith. She was not acting correctly and she is selfish


"I don't think she was off in a corner scissoring with her partner." She kinda was. She and her partner got up in the priests face while he was in the sacristy getting ready for mass. It was uncalled for behavior on her part. Unnecessary. She could have just kept her mouth shut and sat with her partner and everyone would have been just fine and the funeral would have gone off just fine. But she had to push her agenda ... which was disrespectful to both the church and her mother.

So not only did you go out of your way three different times to slander her off of a religious zealot website, you never once questioned the agenda of the priest, only justified his actions with protocol.

Dont' even try to make this a gay-hate thing. You'd be soooooooo far off!

I didn't say that, but now that you bring it up (feeling guilty?)
Your the one making false accusations that she might as well been scissoring with her partner in the church, that she was telling the priest bedroom adventers,and you referred to her like this:

It was the lesbian who was behaving in a manner that she shouldn't

do you even know her name, or is she just "that lesbian"?

Your actions are disturbing.


So I'm disturbing someone who makes no sense (that'd be you) ... whatever.

Oh I am making plenty of sense. And in case you didn't understand again, I just laid it out for you.
But just to make sure we are clear:
You have yet to analyze any evidence of actual reported information that has been provided, instead you quote and cling to a slanderous, anti-gay, religious website and their reporting,and then made up actions for the person so you can make them seem even worse for simply being upset for being denied communion at their own mother's funeral.

And you are a pathetic excuse for a Christian.


OUCH .. BRRRRRR ...

Actually, I think hell is supposed to be hot.
And you are the exact reason that people think Christians are hypocrites:
Exodus 20:16
You shall not give false testimony against your neighbor.
Leviticus 19:16
Do not go about spreading slander among your people.
You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
Yet you just lied and slandered a person in the media that you don't even know, purposely for everyone to see on this site, for being a sinner.
Matthew 7:1-5 ESV / 1,191 helpful votes

“Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. W"



Actually, you are trying to paint the Catholic church as the 'bad ones' when in fact the priest was only doing what he was supposed to do according to his religion and the woman was being obnoxious. Careful nixie_nox .. your anti-Catholicism bigotry is showing

Such a sad attempt at deflection.
And your calling me a bigot? *laughs* coming from a slanderer and liar, I won't take that accusation too seriously.



posted on Mar, 1 2012 @ 09:59 PM
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reply to post by FlyersFan
 



7But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.


Doesn't matter what you do as long as you're saved as stated various times throughout the new testament. If I kill or rape someone I'm still forgiven the same as an adulterer is.

And since the bible contradicts itself how can you judge a fellow human by it?



posted on Mar, 2 2012 @ 05:43 AM
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Originally posted by DoNotForgetMe
Who the hell ever heard of a priest turning someone away

Happens all the time. It's in the church rules. It's in their beliefs. If you don't believe what the
church teaches, then you don't go to Holy Communion. If you are in a state of 'mortal sin'
then you don't go to Holy Communion. It's posted on the Catholic church bulletins and
it's printed on the back of their 'monthly missiles'.



posted on Mar, 2 2012 @ 05:48 AM
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reply to post by nixie_nox
 

blah blah blah ... dixie_nox .. you are just plain wrong. (and rather comical in your temper tantrum)
The rules of the Catholic church and the behavior of the people involved have been explained to you in the simplest words available in an attempt to get it watered down enough so that even you can understand. But alas ... you stick to your bigotry. Whatever.

Again .. the priest was totally correct. I posted the church teaching.
The archdiosese statement is a politically correct one that goes against church teaching.
The lesbian was wrong in her behavior in this matter.
The Catholic church can run itself any way it likes.
Anyone who doesn't like it .. can go suck an egg.



posted on Mar, 2 2012 @ 05:52 AM
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Originally posted by RealSpoke
[And since the bible contradicts itself how can you judge a fellow human by it?

Ask the Catholic church (and the rest of the Christian churches). This is their gig .. not mine. They have a right to run their churches ... based on the bible which contradicts itself ... all they want. Just as the Muslims have a right to believe that silly Qu'ran of theirs. They have a right to base the rules of their faith as they see fit. If anyone does't like the way the Catholic church runs itself .. then don't be Catholic. Catholics are free to leave the church anytime they want.

And as I said before. I don't know why anyone who is an active homosexual would want to be Catholic anyways. Why would someone want to belong to a faith-group when that faith-group doesn't believe the same way you do? It makes no sense. There are plenty of faith-groups that DO believe the way you do .. so go fine one of them.



posted on Mar, 2 2012 @ 11:47 AM
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Originally posted by Dasher
reply to post by MysticPearl
 


I have no comment as to what my own conduct would be regarding this, but I can testify that most denominations consider the sacrament of communion to be particularly worthy of sanctification. I used to attend a church which acknowledged my outward expression of faith, but because I was not a member of the church, and "covered" by them through submission, they would not permit me to take communion. I was not offended. In fact, I was impressed with their diligence. Communion is not understood by people such as them to be a public service, rather, it is reserved only for those who are also sanctified. People can not like it all they want, but it is the way it is. I wouldn't expect a Muslim/Buddhist/etc. church to receive me with the same favor and recognition as any of their members until I displayed evidence that caused them to be comforted enough to welcome me in, so why should the same be expected elsewhere? Especially in a transient ceremony.


Because it's a fair expectation that a priest treat someone humanely while mourning the death of a parent. The same is expected of anyone in a caregiving position, whether it's physical or spiritual care they dole.

I can't believe I just answered that question.



posted on Mar, 2 2012 @ 12:10 PM
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reply to post by chasingbrahman
 



Because it's a fair expectation that a priest treat someone humanely while mourning the death of a parent. The same is expected of anyone in a caregiving position, whether it's physical or spiritual care they dole.
Anyone, in any position, should treat anyone they meet humanely. I think the priest did, you think he didn't.

Treating someone humanely doesn't include lying to them, or accepting their lies. You want humane treatment? That doesn't necessarily mean compromising everything to make some one feel a little better for a little while.

The woman was telling the priest. "I am a Catholic in full communion with the Church." The priest should not have accepted that lie. If he did give her Communion, he would be lying, saying "You are a Catholic in full communion with the Church." We don't need to people telling major, significant, lies just to make some one feel a bit better. That wouldn't be humane.



posted on Mar, 2 2012 @ 08:04 PM
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reply to post by chasingbrahman
 


I understand and empathize with your unction. The priest is certainly prioritizing the protection of the sacrament over the desire of the visitor/mourner, but that is particularly appropriate policy in the eyes of many denominations/churches.

If you have a problem with this policy, I suggest that you start your own church, attend a church that you agree with/submit to, or simply disregard someone else's matter. This is not an issue where the priest does not have justification, it is a matter of many people not agreeing with his justification.

I do not necessarily agree myself, but in the eyes of the priest, he was expressing order and charity. Please keep in mind that order without charity is pride and charity without order is chaos. In our culture, most people wear heavy cloaks of chaos and/or pride.

What I would say for myself is this:

If I was in her position, I would have been silent. The priest has charge over his flock as a shepherd and I am a visitor. I would be thankful that my family member was comforted by these people and I would seek communion with them in whichever ways they would allow.

I would not administer communion as the priest did, so I cannot entirely imagine what I would do in his position. Alternately, if I was obligated to preside over such an event, I would have predicated that portion of the ceremony in such a way that indicated, for that instance and because the ceremony was more "public" than normal, that those who judged it wise to partake of the sacrament of communion are accountable to God directly and I would relieve myself of my general duty of "protecting" communion.

Personally, I am confident that every time we eat or drink anything, we are echoing the truth that Christ expressed in the ritual that he shared with his disciples shortly before his death. Generally, we are ignorant of truth, fail to see what is self-evident and are in great need of spiritual grace.



posted on Mar, 7 2012 @ 03:12 PM
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Big surprise: The woman denied communion is a Gay rights activist and a Buddhist.


News Outlets Failed to Reveal Lesbian Denied Communion at Mother’s Funeral … is a Buddhist and Gay Rights Activist

What’s that? Johnson is a self-professed Buddhist? No wonder she describes herself as a “student of … Buddhist philosophy” on her website.

So what was she doing presenting herself for Communion at her mother’s funeral if she apostatized? Why has she failed to mention this important fact in all of her appearances on the media?

One of my favorite tweets from Johnson’s art school is this one from January 27th which accuses the Maryland Catholic Conference of promoting an “anti-LGBT rights … rally”:

This leads us into the curious timing of this denial of Communion incident. Just days prior to it, Maryland (the state where this incident occurred) voted to legalize gay marriage through its legislature. That bill is going to be appealed this November at the Maryland ballot box and the Maryland Catholic Conference (which we saw Johnson’s twitter account attack) is going to play a significant role in ensuring that gay marriage is voted down there.

Is it any sort of stretch to see this attempt to maligne Fr. Marcel and by extension the Catholic Church in Maryland as a blatantly political attempt by Johnson to generate sympathy and support for gay marriage and to foment public judgement against the Church? I think not.

I, for one, am tired of activists such as Barbara Johnson. A woman who used the very death of her mother for a political, anti-Catholic purpose. A woman who ran to the media with her story and an agenda while failing, for instance, to reveal that she no longer considers herself Catholic and evidently knows that this could pose a problem for her.

And I’m sick and tired of the media playing along with these agenda-driven personal stories while exercising zero vetting because they coincide with the media’s agenda.

Catholic Vote.com

She was an activist who used her mother's funeral to promote her political agenda like a lot of people suspected all along.



posted on Mar, 8 2012 @ 01:30 PM
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Originally posted by charles1952
reply to post by chasingbrahman
 



Because it's a fair expectation that a priest treat someone humanely while mourning the death of a parent. The same is expected of anyone in a caregiving position, whether it's physical or spiritual care they dole.
Anyone, in any position, should treat anyone they meet humanely. I think the priest did, you think he didn't.

Treating someone humanely doesn't include lying to them, or accepting their lies. You want humane treatment? That doesn't necessarily mean compromising everything to make some one feel a little better for a little while.

The woman was telling the priest. "I am a Catholic in full communion with the Church." The priest should not have accepted that lie. If he did give her Communion, he would be lying, saying "You are a Catholic in full communion with the Church." We don't need to people telling major, significant, lies just to make some one feel a bit better. That wouldn't be humane.


And support of the human spirit in the wake of a tragic loss will never be as important as the tenets of the religion. I understand your system of beliefs outweighs any person's, or group of people's, personal grief. I get that. But any system of beliefs that would ask that I interfere with the natural human mourning process in a demonstration of the importance of that system of beliefs, is the breeding ground of judgement. If the priest can deny comfort to a survivor, their parishioners will surely find comfort in that memory when judging another.

As stated, I understand how your beliefs set church tenets at higher priority than comforting a fellow human in mourning. And I respect that someone would find comfort in any system doing that. The human ego is sometimes more powerful than the human spirit. Without the human desire to be right, there would be no human desire for a system of beliefs confirming they are. Of course we more often see that in reverse in regards to religion, where one is promised they will be right with God if they join a church/synagogue/mosque.

I wonder if Jesus would have handled that situation the same way. Although not a Christian, I studied the bible a number of years ago. I find the words and way of Jesus Christ to be nothing short of inspiring. Though not supportive of any one organized religion, I often find it helpful when making decisions to ask myself WWJD? Not because I regard Jesus as the son of God, but more because I consider him to be a role model when it comes to how to treat others.

And now I ponder...



posted on Mar, 8 2012 @ 01:53 PM
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Jesus walked amoung the sinners
thats each and everyone of us all for you slower types

remember how he treated mary m?

people who live in grass houses shouldn't stow thrones
edit on 8-3-2012 by Danbones because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 8 2012 @ 02:36 PM
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reply to post by chasingbrahman
 

Dear chasingbrahman,

Thank you, that post was really well done. I admire it, and you for writing it.

One area that must be carefully weighed in this discussion is the cost to the parish for abandoning the Church's teaching compared to the benefit of comoforting a suffering, grief stricken human soul. A difficult comparison to make. It is made even more difficult in light of the reports that Ms. Johnson was not a soul suffering and grief stricken over the loss of her mother.

The follow-up reports indicate that Ms. Johnson may very well have intended to use the occasion as political theater to advocate for gay rights, certainly her comments to the press afterward don't indicate a suffering soul wanting to hide for a couple of days to recover. I tend to not believe her original version of the events.

If there was no real suffering, just a desire to use her mother's funeral as a stage, Ms. Johnson becomes a less than desireable poster boy (poster girl?) for the movement. She comes across in a very negative light, and I'm afraid if I continued, I would say some very harsh things.

With respect,
Charles1952



posted on Mar, 9 2012 @ 10:19 AM
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reply to post by charles1952
 


If the woman we are discussing wasn't attending her mother's funeral in a natural progression of the mourning process, but rather in an effort to further a personal cause of her own, then my argument is moot and I respectfully concede. The only arena in which a funeral should mingle with emotionally-charged political matters is when it would be in honor of the deceased because that cause largely defined their life. MLK comes to mind.

However, I still wonder how someone with such natural concern and empathy as Jesus would have navigated those choppy waters.



posted on Mar, 9 2012 @ 10:58 AM
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reply to post by chasingbrahman
 

Dear chasingbrahman,

Well done, indeed.


However, I still wonder how someone with such natural concern and empathy as Jesus would have navigated those choppy waters.
That's the excellent question in all this mess. He is supposed to be our guide and model.

I can only think of one time when He was dealing with what went on in "Church."

15 On reaching Jerusalem, Jesus entered the temple area and began driving out those who were buying and selling there. He overturned the tables of the money changers and the benches of those selling doves, 16 and would not allow anyone to carry merchandise through the temple courts. 17 And as he taught them, he said, “Is it not written:

“‘My house will be called
a house of prayer for all nations’?

But you have made it ‘a den of robbers.’” (Mark 11:15-17)
Perhaps the priest thought the "temple" was being profaned? I don't know.

Jesus was, of course very big on repentance and forgiveness. The woman He saved from stoning comes to mind, saying, "Go and sin no more" after saving her life. He was also famous, and condemned, for eating with all types of sinners.

As I said, a wonderful question, thanks for it.

With respect,
Charles1952



posted on Mar, 9 2012 @ 11:03 AM
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I think fort anthem nailed it though



posted on Mar, 9 2012 @ 11:16 AM
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reply to post by FortAnthem
 

1 - Buddhist. It's against the Catholic faith to give Holy Communion to anyone who isn't Catholic.
2 - Gay Rights Activist. She was 'in your face' to the priest before the funeral.

Man up and apologize Nixie_Nox.




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