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Lesbian Woman Denied Communion at Mother's Funeral

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posted on Mar, 1 2012 @ 02:00 PM
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Let me try out an idea on you people.

Could it be that there are basically two camps here? One might say there is no excuse for causing emotional pain to a person, certainly not in order to enforce some silly rules. The other might say there is no excuse for breaking Church rules hundreds of years old, in order to give someone a temporary emotional high.

If that's the case, then it's a question of priorities. Have we got something here, or did I miss it.




posted on Mar, 1 2012 @ 02:20 PM
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reply to post by Azadok
 



You site tolerance as an example to get rid of what you deem intolerance comical


It's not what I deem intolerance, it is what is being deemed intolerant by an ever growing group of people.

And I'm glad you find it so entertaining.



posted on Mar, 1 2012 @ 02:26 PM
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reply to post by FlyersFan
 



The fact is .. if you disagree with the church then you can LEAVE.


Tell me, and please do, what if she doesn't want to leave? Has she done anything illegal?

I really do not care for your kind of reasoning, it does not hold even the slightest bit of merit to me. It is the same kind of reasoning used widely in a theocracy you are familiar with.

PS.

100 years ago, what would the Catholic church have done to her? 200 years ago? 300? These occurences are all accounted for.



posted on Mar, 1 2012 @ 03:01 PM
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reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 


All humans live in sin according to the bible... Funny how a lot of Christians always seem to pick and choose which ones have more significance when the bible says all sins are equal



posted on Mar, 1 2012 @ 03:07 PM
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Originally posted by ManBehindTheMask
My god people, do you even SEE the hypocrisy and blatant apologist mentality!

Yep. It's pretty dang clear, isn't it?

Originally posted by InfoKartel
Tell me, and please do, what if she doesn't want to leave? Has she done anything illegal?

If she doesn't want to leave then she has only herself to blame for being miserable. The reason people go to a Catholic church is because they believe what is being preached there. If they don't believe it - which she obviously doesn't - then why waste everyone's time, why get in the priests face and make a scene, and why would she want to make herself miserable hanging out with people who dont' believe like she does? It makes no sense.

I really do not care for your kind of reasoning,

Because my reasoning makes sense .... okay .... so you don't care for people who make sense. Got it.


Originally posted by DestroyDestroyDestroy
I don't think she was off in a corner scissoring with her partner.

She kinda was. She and her partner got up in the priests face while he was in the sacristy getting ready for mass. It was uncalled for behavior on her part. Unnecessary. She could have just kept her mouth shut and sat with her partner and everyone would have been just fine and the funeral would have gone off just fine. But she had to push her agenda ... which was disrespectful to both the church and her mother.



posted on Mar, 1 2012 @ 03:12 PM
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Originally posted by RealSpoke
Funny how a lot of Christians always seem to pick and choose which ones have more significance when the bible says all sins are equal

That's not true. The bible is very clear that some sins kill the soul while others just wound.
1 John 5:15-17
It's a matter of interpretation as to which ones kill the soul and which ones just wound.
Of course, there are other quotes that say just the opposite. That's the bible for ya .. contradictions.



posted on Mar, 1 2012 @ 03:14 PM
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reply to post by MysticPearl
 


Catholics are very very picky about things. If it is even believed you commited suicide, you can't have a catholic funeral even if you were catholic. I would say he has every right to do what he did, it's his life his choice even though he might of insulted people. Obviously he knew the family or he would have no idea that the woman was lesbian. He was most likely their family priest and is in the know about their lives. So yeah.
edit on 1-3-2012 by Evanzsayz because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 1 2012 @ 03:18 PM
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D.C. archdiocese: Denying Communion to lesbian at funeral was against ‘policy’



Washington Post



posted on Mar, 1 2012 @ 03:19 PM
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reply to post by charles1952
 



Johnson said that her partner of 20 years had been helping the family at the church earlier when the priest asked who she was. “And she said, ‘I’m her partner,’ ” Johnson recalled.


washington post
edit on 1-3-2012 by nixie_nox because: update info



posted on Mar, 1 2012 @ 03:24 PM
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Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by ManBehindTheMask
My god people, do you even SEE the hypocrisy and blatant apologist mentality!

Yep. It's pretty dang clear, isn't it?

Originally posted by InfoKartel
Tell me, and please do, what if she doesn't want to leave? Has she done anything illegal?

If she doesn't want to leave then she has only herself to blame for being miserable. The reason people go to a Catholic church is because they believe what is being preached there. If they don't believe it - which she obviously doesn't - then why waste everyone's time, why get in the priests face and make a scene, and why would she want to make herself miserable hanging out with people who dont' believe like she does? It makes no sense.

I really do not care for your kind of reasoning,

Because my reasoning makes sense .... okay .... so you don't care for people who make sense. Got it.


Originally posted by DestroyDestroyDestroy
I don't think she was off in a corner scissoring with her partner.

She kinda was. She and her partner got up in the priests face while he was in the sacristy getting ready for mass. It was uncalled for behavior on her part. Unnecessary. She could have just kept her mouth shut and sat with her partner and everyone would have been just fine and the funeral would have gone off just fine. But she had to push her agenda ... which was disrespectful to both the church and her mother.



You want to bash this woman so badly and side with the church that you accept that a statement from one Dean as truth and infallible, and you accept it so wildly that you are now trying to paint this woman as going on to have sex with her girlfriend in the corner.
To the point where you are actually making crap up?

Your actions are disturbing.

Why don't you get a torch and a pitchfork and hunt some witches while your at it.

And you are a pathetic excuse for a Christian.

Nice try in painting the victims as the bad ones:


Despite their outrage, the Johnsons said they don’t see the incident as a reason to criticize the church more broadly. “We agreed this is not a discussion about gay rights or about the teachings of the Catholic Church,” Larry Johnson said. “We’re not in this to Catholic-bash.” That’s the farthest thing from our minds.”

edit on 1-3-2012 by nixie_nox because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 1 2012 @ 03:40 PM
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Catholics are free to believe as they wish.
If they believe the ritual of communion should not be performed with someone who is not in a state of grace by their standards then they have the right to do so.
A Catholic priest is obligated to follow the will of God as he understands it. NOT what is politically correct or what sympathetic people might feel would be nice or polite. These are and should be irrelevant to the priest.
No one would criticize a rabbi who refused to eat pork no matter how humane or politically correct others felt it was.
The priest believes no one who is in a state of sin as defined by his church should receive communion. That is the beginning and end of it.
Political correctness, sympathy, compassion, etc. be damned. Rabbis should NEVER be expected to eat pork. Priest should NEVER be expected to perform communion with someone who is not in a state of grace.
Just curious. When did parishioners decide they had veto power over their God?



posted on Mar, 1 2012 @ 03:44 PM
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reply to post by FlyersFan
 



The fact is .. if you disagree with the church then you can LEAVE.


It's the same reasoning used by a theocracy you are familiar with. Only they have actual authority. I wonder what would happen if the Catholic Church would gain authority? Weird that you are for the freedom of faith of people there, but against it when it has to do with the Catholic Church? Personal bias?



posted on Mar, 1 2012 @ 03:44 PM
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Originally posted by Evanzsayz
reply to post by MysticPearl
 


Catholics are very very picky about things. If it is even believed you commited suicide, you can't have a catholic funeral even if you were catholic. I would say he has every right to do what he did, it's his life his choice even though he might of insulted people. Obviously he knew the family or he would have no idea that the woman was lesbian. He was most likely their family priest and is in the know about their lives. So yeah.
edit on 1-3-2012 by Evanzsayz because: (no reason given)


yeah right...too bad the priest didn't think about what the dead mother wanted, or desired for her own funeral. it was obvious that he made a "judgement" about the mother and her family during this deeply emotional time, and not let that be up to god's judgement.



posted on Mar, 1 2012 @ 03:53 PM
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Bottom line: This woman's mother was the Catholic. She wasn't Catholic any longer herself. If she wanted to take communion, then she knew what she needed to do before that happened. Whether or not it was a funeral is irrelevant. The rules don't change because one thinks others should feel sorry for them.

If a person wants to be part of a religion, then they need to adhere to the religion and not expect the religion to go along with what they want to believe and do. It doesn't work like that, nor should it. It is ludicrous to suggest otherwise. Religions don't have to accomodate people who aren't adherents of the religion in question, even if they are former members. Actually, former members have less of an excuse because they should know better. If you go to a religious place of worship, then you're on their turf, and will be expected to do things their way.

If my mother (God forbid) were to die today, I wouldn't dream of going back to the Pentecostal church I grew up in and instruct them that they should change their beliefs to coincide with how I believe now, at her funeral. I would be devastated that she died, but I wouldn't dream of trying to force them to accomodate my beliefs or lifestyle because of that. We no longer share the same faith.


edit on 1-3-2012 by LeSigh because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 1 2012 @ 03:55 PM
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reply to post by nixie_nox
 

The Archdiosese statement is wrong and is against Church teaching.


Originally posted by nixie_nox
You want to bash this woman so badly and side with the church ..

Wrong. I dont know her and I don't care. Why on earth would I want badly to bash her?
Dont' even try to make this a gay-hate thing. You'd be soooooooo far off!

Your actions are disturbing.

So I'm disturbing someone who makes no sense (that'd be you) ... whatever.


And you are a pathetic excuse for a Christian.

OUCH .. BRRRRRR ...


Nice try in painting the victims as the bad ones:

Actually, you are trying to paint the Catholic church as the 'bad ones' when in fact the priest was only doing what he was supposed to do according to his religion and the woman was being obnoxious. Careful nixie_nox .. your anti-Catholicism bigotry is showing ...


Originally posted by InfoKartel
Weird that you are for the freedom of faith of people there, but against it when it has to do with the Catholic Church? Personal bias?

Again you are making no sense. The Catholic church is not a democracy. It is not a bottom to top flow organization. It is a church that runs from the top down. And if someone doesn't like what the church teaches .. they can leave. That in no way inhibits their 'freedom of faith'. They are free to go practice what they truly believe with a church that fits their beliefs.

As for personal bias .. again ... yours is showing.



posted on Mar, 1 2012 @ 03:57 PM
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reply to post by FlyersFan
 



That in no way inhibits their 'freedom of faith'. They are free to go practice what they truly believe with a church that fits their beliefs.







posted on Mar, 1 2012 @ 04:44 PM
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Originally posted by Flavian
This is totally incorrect, a fact i only learned myself this week (thanks to ATS prompting some research!). Homosexuality is seen as a sin but there are no mortal sins - no sin is worse than any other and committing sins doesn't preclude an individual from God's love. I actually found that rather remarkable considering some of the responses you occasionally see from some self confessed Catholics and Christians. All sin is equal and all can be forgiven.


You clearly don't understand or speak on behalf of Catholicism. This whole issue can only be argued from within the context of Catholicism. To argue that it is not right from the perspective of another faith or secular belief is moot.



posted on Mar, 1 2012 @ 04:53 PM
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Originally posted by InfoKartel
reply to post by FlyersFan
 


That in no way inhibits their 'freedom of faith'. They are free to go practice what they truly believe with a church that fits their beliefs.



The Catholic church is not a democracy. It is run from the top down .. not the bottom up. People aren't elected into positions (except the pope), they are appointed. 'The people' don't decide what the church believes .. the church decides what the church believes .. and the people are then free to believe it or take a hike.

This woman knew what the church believed. She got in the face of the priest and pushed the fact that she was breaking church law. She doesn't believe what the church believes. She should go down the road to the Episcopal church which is already set up to match her belief system. It's 'Catholic lite' and even has gay priests ...

Side note .... If a Muslim woman went to a mosque to pray, and instead of praying with the women, she went to the section that the men were praying and and she wore a tight miniskirt while praying .. the Imam would have every right to kick her out of the Mosque for not following the rules. If Jewish man brought a pound of bacon to a synagogue pot luck, the rabbi would have every right to kick him off the grounds. Likewise, the priest in the Catholic church has every right to follow the Catholic faith and to deny communion to a woman who isn't obeying church rules (and making a big stinky show about it as well). She was still able to stay in the church, to pray, to do everything in the funeral EXCEPT go up and take communion.

Another side note ... in the Catholic faith, when a person receives communion it is a public statement that they agree with the catholic faith. Obviously the woman doesn't. So she shouldn't want to receive communion anyways. Just the fact that she wants to receive it and still not believe in what the church teaches tells me she hasn't got a clue what it means to be Catholic.



posted on Mar, 1 2012 @ 05:08 PM
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Should not the Catholic Church have a right to stand for it's beliefs? Whatever they may be? Isn't this Freedom of Religion? How was she harmed... Her feelings hurt? Wow!!! What is the world coming to? The Catholic church changes it's political views all the time. Perhaps she was making a scene... calling attention to herself. Surely, she would know this would be the outcome, and a new reporter comforted her. This whole thing sounds staged.

Golden
edit on 1-3-2012 by GoldenVoyager because: grammar



posted on Mar, 1 2012 @ 05:34 PM
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That is a huge problem with the Church and the majority of Christians, they judge when God is the one who judges. No one is without sin, yet there are plenty of stones thrown in the name of God. Personally I think homosexuality is immoral, but I do not condemn the ones I know who are homosexuals, they actually are no different from heterosexuals I know, except for the gay thing. Everyone I know is sexually immoral, not many people are monogamous and faithful in a marriage, everyone seems to fall short in that area. 2012 will be interesting as it is, and Religion will be one of many things to explode in our faces. Who the hell ever heard of a priest turning someone away....it is irony....lesbianism wrong but chomoism right...


 
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