Do Animals Have Rights, Does It Matter How We Kill And Eat Them?

reply to post by ShadowAngel85


That's what seperates us from wild beasts, we are not wild beasts.

As for PETA, they kill more defenseless animals than anyone else:
www.petakillsanimals.com...

For me, animals have rights and it does matter how we kill them.

I've been a vegetarian 'proper' for the last four months and I feel fine, energised, healthy, fit and ready to go.
It's a personal choice for me.
Having made it, I can't see me going back.
Meat eating is so twentieth century.

Appreciate and gave a star to everyone's feedback in this post. The thoughts that made the most sense to me were that we try to limit meat intake, and consider if meat we buy has come from "humanely" raised farms. I am also fortunate ( as another person mentioned ) to have that option where I live in CA., to buy local meat. It is more exspensive, but maybe that makes it more of a treat to be enjoyed in good faith and respect to the animal.

I would take issue with those who considered allowing my daughter to be a vegetarian was poor parenting, what should I have done? Stood over her and forced her to eat meat? Starve her if she refused? The fact is because of her we learned alot about food, great recipies that don't include meat, and whatever mistakes I have made in parenting, I don't think that was one of them.

Look forward to more thoughts.....

As a supposed civilised species,we must make it a priority not to cause any suffering to other species whether they are a species that is eaten or otherwise,personally,killing an animal for pleasure makes me sick and angry,with the perpetrators being several rungs down the evolutionary ladder from a lungworm.

Even with the species we consume,there must be room for compassion,i.e free range chickens,an end to slaughterhouses,what special hell do these poor creatures go through in those particular places?

Absolutely agree, that without compassion and reguard for the animals we eat, that meal does not "TRUELY" nourish the body and soul.

OK, know that sounds so corny, lol....

Giving up cheeseburgers is an emotional process.......

/me runs half cooked across the thread naked clucking whilst basting my bottom in chicken juice.

I'll turn all you vegetarians yet, also, I have extra skin due to the fat I've packed on underneath.


Hail chicken! *salutes*

Meat is a normal part of our diet, but it can be opted out of. Vegetarian diets I would think would have the same likelihood of making a person ill from contamination as an omnivorous diet would. As far as how we kill animals, it certainly matters. Most hunters strive for ethical and clean kills and respect the animal, certainly are some bad apples in that group but they are a minority. The bible also has rules as to the slaughter and preparation of animals and prohibits many different sort of animal mainly bottom feeding ones. The lobster would not be a Kosher animal as it is a crustacean.

My spawn is so far a vegetarian by will of not eating anything meaty tasting apart from beef based marinara sauces and dairy. I've done a stint as a vegetarian as well when the only meat I had access to was green (seriously), and I regularly use morning star TVP in many recipes.

We humans are the biggest animals of all, We are the only species that kill for sport. Yet we have more rights then the other species that kill solely for food, the only reason we have control over animals is not because of brains but because we have hands which hold weapons.

Ive seen trucks on highways filled with sheep or cows which are that packed in that the animals are practically squashed to death, when humans were treated like that, rounded up into trains to their death it was known as a holocaust, yet the same thing happens to animals day in/day out and no one blinks an eyelid. I eat meat too, not as often as most do so i agree i might be part of the problem, but what gets to me the most is the way animals are slaughtered and feel pain and fear like we do,

Imagine if you were reborn as an animal and get sent to a slaughterhouse and see those around you getting tazered, squashed and throat slashed, bleeding slowly till death and then they walk over to you and your trapped in a man made pen with no way out.

Its so cruel how animals are treated, they only kill humans when threatened or if a human is in their habitat, Yet a sheep or a cow who hasn't hurt a single soul in their life get sent to death so cruelty... Even a murderer on death row gets killed more humanly then an innocent animal because they get the lethal injection.

Yet an animal kills a human and the guns are out and its death on the spot to the animal and any of their other species nearby, its shameless... yet a human kills a human and its arrest, put in a cell then maybe depending where you are in the world or country death might be given. Yet in zoo's or pet shops all over the world animals who have done nothing wrong but be born on earth are caged for amusement or torture, this is the reason why i am disgusted to be a human at times and wish laws were equal for not only all people but other creatures who breath the air on our planet as well weather microscopic or gigantic, its taken women and dark skinned races an Asians etc hundreds of years to be treated equally by the rest of the world, i look to a time where in the future animals may also get as equally treated to us as possible. I emphasize the fact once again, im not a peta supporter, not a greeny or a monk or anything like that (not that their is anything wrong with people that are) but i am civilized enough as a human with all my time on earth to realize what is right and wrong and i definitely disagree with causing pain to anyone or anything who does not deserve it.

reply to post by MountainLaurel


I don't know when it was or what they did but the ASPCA was necessary to create some laws regarding cruelty to farm animals and take some legal action in order to prevent strangers from gathering up house pets off the streets and selling them to labs. I think the ASPCA made it more difficult for labs to accept animals from shady sources.

I personally think the ASPCA is something like the Cancer Association where they really are not after a cure for anything but in the business of collecting money and PETA is a laughing stock so there really isn't anyone left to speak for animals except Briget Bardot, Bob Barker and Betty White. All of them frail and hardly able to put up much of a fight.

I think it is convoluted and a serious mistake to hold off on humane laws for animals considering how Nations like China treat their people. People say commonly - when we learn to treat people kindly then I will worry about dumb animals. I am sorry but it will never work that way.

In the material and videos I have seen lately the human beings are brutal, inhuman and sickening attacking bums and bashing homeless heads in with bats for sport. Skinning animals and torturing them alive for entertainment...those are the humans. They are protected with special rights.

Many animals are saving children's lives, keeping them warm in the woods, fending off attackers warning of seizures and strokes. Animals are saving adults lives and making them easier opening doors and sniffing out bombs for humans engaged in killing each other. Dogs are working as soldiers in the war, monkeys are sharing with each other, natural enemies are accepting each other and living together, dogs are raising kittens and elephants are painting beautiful pictures of flowers. These are at the mercy of the humans and for all practical purposes have no rights.

People need to change how we treat animals.
Cruelty and abuse or inhumanity should carry at least a fine and jail time and or voluntary psychological counseling.

If it were a crime to abuse an animal
PEOPLE WOULD BEGIN TO TREAT THEIR FELLOW HUMAN BEINGS BETTER.

When we compare ourselves to the horror animals face we think we have it good.
We do not fight for rights that should be ours.
If even animals were treated humanly it would be abhorrent to abuse a human being.
Eventually the culture of cruelty would be phased out.

Ugh such a tough topic for me, one which I have struggled with for the past 5 years.

I am mostly a vegetarian, the other day after 3 meatless months I broke down and had a piece of chicken.

I feel like my stance on it has changed over the years. You have your strict Vegans who eat and use nothing that has any by product of an animal whatsoever (personally I just can't give up cheese, EVER) but what these vegans don't realize is that there are still insects and rodents and such that get killed in order for their produce to be harvested etc.

I've decided that I can live with eating meat that has been treated nicely before becoming dinner. However, my budget usually doesn't allow for too much organic humanely raised meat purchases, which actually might be a good thing because I don't think one needs much meat to reap the health benefits of the amino acids, proteins, etc.

I think one could drive themselves nuts trying to save all the insects, animals etc, but it's the circle of life. I will die someday, I just hope it's quick an painless, therefore I would like the animals death to be quick and painless also, and them to have the opportunity of a nice life, grazing some grass, etc or whatever an animal normally does. And myself will be grateful for their life energy being passed onto me for my own sustenance.

So right now I really rarely rarely eat meat, because I feel so guilty about how they are treated before I eat them, and I don't like living in guilt. But I've come to realize (for now) that it's all a natural part of life, energy consumption etc. Who's to say plants don't want to be eaten? Silly it might seem, but we really don't know for sure, unless we could be a plant ourselves. It's easy to judge others for their choices but when it comes down to it, we don't know ANYTHING other than our own personal experience.

All these vegans who love their cats (I say so lovingly because I have some wonderful Vegan friends) but I owned many a cat in my life and I have watched a cat or two not just killing to eat, but teasing and playing with grasshoppers or mice for hours before actually devouring it. So no these animals who they love can be even more vicious than the humans they are judging for their own carnivorous behaviour.

Whew, did not mean to write a novel. I guess I would say to be aware of what goes in your mouth how it was treated, and always be grateful for the life you have consumed. Do unto others what you would have them do unto you, and I have broadened that to the animal kingdom.



ETA In response to camouflaged, you said:

We humans are the biggest animals of all, We are the only species that kill for sport. Yet we have more rights then the other species that kill solely for food,

I must disagree about animals not killing for sport. Like I mentioned above I have watched cats toy with their prey for hours before actually eating it. That's not very nice in my opinion. It's not on the scale of say the awful practice of seal bashing or whatever it is, that's just awful, but it's still not JUST killing quickly and nicely for a piece of dinner.

reply to post by MountainLaurel

Do Animals Have Rights

Well, they dont have a right to life, but we did grant them a right not to suffer (animal abuse laws). Which is interesting, as it seems to imply that right not to suffer is even more basic than right to life, if you think about it.

"Rights" is a human concept that does not really apply in the animal kingdom. While I do agree it is best to have a code of ethics for how we treat animals, there is no universal objective law obligating us to do so. Also, animals maim and kill other animals all the time for food, so it is only natural.

I don't think there's inherently anything wrong with killing and eating an animal - humans have always done it and for a long time it was necessary for survival. However, I strongly disagree with battery/intensive farming and other things subject animals to cruel conditions. Now that people have a choice - you can opt to eat free range meat/eggs or be entirely vegetarian - I personally think it is wrong to consume meat derived from cruel conditions. I suppose it's nearly impossible to find meat from entirely cruelty-free conditions, but everyone has to do the best they can, whether that means being a vegetarian or buying certain products over others.

When I talk about this with people I often hear people say that they will buy meat - from whatever background - because the animal is already dead, so you might as well buy the product. By the time the meat is packaged in front of you, there's nothing you can do about the cruelty that may have occurred, so you might as well buy it otherwise it's all a waste. I myself would still feel guilty about contributing to what I think is a corrupt, unnecessary system, but it's an interesting way to think about it.

Without a doubt animals have emotions/feelings. I know this because I have always had animals in my life since I was young; though I feel some animals such as fish are very different from dogs or cats when it comes to emotions.

This being said, I still eat mean and will continue to till I die.

Do animals have rights? I would say yes, but I believe our rights come first; at least in my opinion.

Interesting point about cats, I once had a cat drop a live, although barely, mouse at my feet. I was at a loss at how to react, ummm, Thanks Kitty !?

p.s. how do you quote a portion of what another person says? I can't figure it out, lol

Originally posted by MountainLaurel


Interesting point about cats, I once had a cat drop a live, although barely, mouse at my feet. I was at a loss at how to react, ummm, Thanks Kitty !?

p.s. how do you quote a portion of what another person says? I can't fdigure it out, lol

Maybe cats play with their prey to try and stun or knock it out before killing it, somwhat like a snake using venom on prey before it eats it.

To quote a portion of text, first click the quote option (TOP right hand corner) of the persons post you wish to quote from and make sure the [/qoute]

reply to post by Dark Ghost


Depending on your spiritual beliefs really.

I honestly believe Animals should have as many rights as humans.
Just because we can't speak their language, doesn't mean they aren't sentient.

Some will come back at me and quote the rules we humans made for verifying sentience.
Let me just point out that we humans do NOT know enough to make rules on what qualifies as sentient life.

Back to my original point...
I have recently come to a spiritual understanding that the voiding of life negatively effects ones soul.
Consuming the meat of the lifeless being is a further detriment to your soul.
For this reason I do not and will not again eat meat.

That being said, there is no pain or suffering caused to animal when consuming their by-products; IE Eggs and Milk.
As long as proper care and empathy is taken in acquiring these items.

A note on the Animal Kingdom... Their spiritual system is built differently, but only slightly.
Every soul goes through a progression of learning and growing.
We start as what we humans consider lesser life; bugs, birds, fish et cetera.
In these lower stages of evolution, we aren't spiritually aware of what our cause and effects are.
That being said, this won't hamper lower life from evolving as much as it does us higher evolved species.

There are many toll bridges in our spiritual evolution; I believe for humans in our current state, one of the items on our spiritual checklist is to be aware of other species and their own spiritual paths.
If we fail to learn this lesson, then we continue in the next life at the same level to try and check off all the items on the list again.
For those murderers and serial killers out there, actually send their progression in reverse.

Anyway, I have found that eating a vegetarian diet, I am able to meditate more clearly and my dreams are more vivid. My capacity to recall these dreams upon waking is a lot easier as well.

On a side note, the natural progression of spirituality, is that we will no longer need to eat plants either.
Once you are at that stage, your body will feed off the spiritual energy throughout the universe.

Just food for thought - pun intended.

Originally posted by camouflaged

Originally posted by MountainLaurel


Interesting point about cats, I once had a cat drop a live, although barely, mouse at my feet. I was at a loss at how to react, ummm, Thanks Kitty !?

p.s. how do you quote a portion of what another person says? I can't fdigure it out, lol

Maybe cats play with their prey to try and stun or knock it out before killing it, somwhat like a snake using venom on prey before it eats it.

To quote a portion of text, first click the quote option (TOP right hand corner) of the persons post you wish to quote from and make sure the [/qoute]

reply to post by Sovaka


You definately gave some great points to "Chew on" lol

It would seem for my daughter and others like yourself this is an intuative, spritual,matter of the heart to choose to not eat meat. At my evolutionary level currently, it is something that gives me pause and would require disipline and withdrawl to stop doing.