Do Animals Have Rights, Does It Matter How We Kill And Eat Them?

So this is something I have pondered for many years, honestly my daughter brought this subject into my life when she was 8 years old and declared herself a vegetarian. She explained that there was no good reason to kill and eat animals when we could eat other things and live. She certainly had a point, and I was willing to modify meals to accomodate her beliefs, lol, although I must admit cooking for a vegetarian, especially a kid that needs protien isn't easy!

I continued to eat meat and explained to my daughter that I believed the natural order of things was that that creatures eat other creatures, birds eat bugs, etc. and mostly I still believe that to be true, but even as I said this, in my heart of hearts I could not factor out that animals suffer in a different way prior to human consumption, that does not mimic a lion killing a deer.

I'm very interested to hear others thoughts on this, what do you think? I'll end this post by giving a "shout out" to Lucille Ball, I happened to run across an old show this morning where she did a comedy routine about her moral dilemea of throwing a life lobster in a pot of boiling water, , lol, she hide the lobster to save him! That show was before my time, but seems she may have been an early animal rights activist !

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reply to post by MountainLaurel


As long as there are slaughterhouses, there will be battlefields

we are no animals no humans..we are trash..

Take what you need, not what you want.

When you kill an animal, help a person, give out money, the most important factor to regard is the intention. If you kill an animal for sport, rather than to meet your needs, it is wrong. Just like in Avatar, when all those dogs are killed. The lady avatar says, "they did not need to die." Just like if you give someone money, either you did it to be kind, or you loaned them money so you could take advantage of them. It's all about intention.

Some people point to the wildlife. "Lions brutally kill their prey." But they don't kill prey, then just leave their body. They kill only as much as they need. This world has enough room to meet everyone's needs, not everyone's greed.

Personally, I'm a pescetarian, but it's solely for health reasons. On another note, I think all life here on Earth exists in two forms. The body and the soul. The soul lives infinitely in different forms through all living things. However, the reason living beings exist on Earth is so that they may learn and experience and balance universal karma. Since all living things exist in the form of borrowed energy, it's important that we're thankful for the energy we've had the opportunity to borrow. As we live and as we die, we return that energy back to the circle of life. Like how your skin cells technically aren't the same skin cells you had last year.

TL DR
Be thankful and don't be greedy and it's all fine.

reply to post by MountainLaurel

It is a fact that cruelly or inhumanely slaughtered animals contain a higher percentage of something I will inexpertly call "stress hormones". Just as in most animals, stress is unhealthy and affects the system. The meat then contains those stress chemicals upon consumption. Factory production will not allow time for a humane approach. This is why I avoid meat these days, I've seen too much. I like its taste sometimes, but not the production methods.

Add that to the fact that many animals are given growth hormones, anti-biotics to control disease rife in enclosed and uncomfortable quarters, not to mention specialised fodder that often contains the processed remains of their fellow creature...I can't see much natural about it. It's also how diseases like Mad Cow Disease became so widespread. Feeding the infected remains of one cow to another cow in its feed pellets. Meh!

ROFL. My daughters have both gone through the "I'm a vegetarian now" phase. Generally the phase ends on one of either 2 fronts.
I serve a plate of veggies which they ironically don't particularly like.... or

They smell the chicken roasting in the oven.

Heating a featherless bird has genetical powers of which ethics can not yet destroy. (until a cooked chicken perfume is invented, which the vegetarians will sprinkle on their tofu I bet!)

edit:
(btw, the title should not be in all caps, or the mods will come down on you with great wrath and possibly pelt you in veggies!)

I became a vegetarian a few months ago, after a lifetime of guilt!

reply to post by rigel4


The CHICKEN shall bring you down!

All hail chicken!

That is a very good question, one that you could pose in a philosophy class.

I married a vegetarian. I asked her what she eats and she and her family gets all in a huff and say the same things you eat except no real meat. She loves the morning star farms stuff (and I like the taste of some of that myself).

I do see a different paradigm in the way she selects her meals as opposed to me. For her, she decides what non meat she wants to eat and then adds a fake meat product that would go with it.

For me its, what meat do I want, and what goes good with it. Yes, I still eat meat. All I have to do is use my separate cooking utensils. Which is a little inconvenient, but it works for the both of us.

With the additional information about dolphins learning to communicate with us (or perhaps its the other way around ) we have learned that they are self aware. To me, I think that they are like humans.

I have also noted that most animals I come into contact with have emotion and I do admit, I don't eat as much meat as I used to because of that. I do know that we can eat a healthy diet without meat.

Having been raised on it, it just seems weird not to have it in my diet.

Oh, and if you want some humor, listen to "Cows with Guns" which can be conveniently found on youtube

I tried the vegetarian thing for health purposes but it's really not for me.. I'm a meat eater, but anymore I try to limit it .. I stick mostly to chicken or turkey, I rarely eat red meats..

The more we learn about animal's ability to communicate with one another, and the fact we often seem to underestimate their intelligence really does make me think twice sometimes though about the whole animal "rights" matter.. the stories recently about dolphins communication and their higher than assumed intelligence is one example..

Also I do firmly believe animals experience emotions which some still debate.. but I could certainly remember the look of joy on my dog's face when I'd come home from work vs. him not seeming to care much about random strangers.. he also seemed to experience strong guilt when he did something and knew it displeased me..

reply to post by calnorak


Ironic that I honestly didn't read your post until I posted mine and we said two of the same things .. lol

reply to post by miniatus


Quite ironic indeed. But with 7 billion people in the world, I am not surprised at least 1 other has thought the same.

Interesting thread, I am not a vegetarian nor is my wife and for the record we are childless.

I can see kids getting caught up in the vegetarian thing and not thinking of proteins.

As far as "Do animals have rights" goes I am on the fence on that one, we certainly do not treat humans with respect so sadly I will answer that as of now animals have no rights whats so ever and probably never will...

We both love animals here and this is a should watch short 3 min video.
Link below
www.liveleak.com...

On a personal level I happen to love steak and I think it is ingrained into us here, anyways great thread for thinking and S&F to the OP.
Regards, Iwinder

Life feeds on life. The morality/immorality of killing is a human invention. As far as Mother Nature is concerned, a dog is no better than a fern is no better than a cow is no better than a fungus is no better than a rock. It's just routine energy transfer.
1 thing I've never figured out is why vegetarians kill and mutilate those poor vegetables. Especially after all the evidence that plants feel pain. Murderous Heathens!

ETA: I support vegetarians because less demand for meat means better prices for me!

So sorry for your daughter.

It's not your place to justify anything to her. She's a child.

Children are unable to make decisions on their own.

If they were able to make mature decisions, there wouldn't be child labor laws and on and on and on...

Consider all the things children are prohibited from doing.

It's a parents responsibility to tell them to sit down and shut up. In all love. If you can't, you aren't the parent.

They are going to tell YOU what they will wear? what they will eat? to what party they are going this weekend?

What medication they've decided to consume to correct their illnesses?

ZOMG...

[color=#00BFFF]PETA = People Eating Tasty Animals...

That should be up on Wikipedia as the correct acronym for PETA.

our grandparents go to market; pick a 1200-2000lb cow; have it butchered

(humanely? ... it's about to be food ...) ... momma always said "don't play with your food!"

and periodically, the grandparents distribute all the various cuts to all family that are in need or want.

The cow is also supplemented with a venison or two of all cuts. We do what we can to avoid OP issues.

If, as a parent, you feel that you must oblige your childs' decisions, perhaps soy protein would work?

Remember though that 70-90% of soy beans grown in America are Round-Up® Ready!!!

Om Num Num. GMO. Read the labels at the store, almost everything has soy/soy lecithin etc...

EVERYTHING. Watch for Natural Flavors too, they aren't what you think that they are...

As for Lobsters: My uncle would bring them live from Rhode Island to us in California; where we would

promptly bring them to a rolling boil. Om Num Num nothing like fresh lobster and REAL 60's butter.

[color=#00BFFF](After thought: anyone notice how everything has so much MORE added water these days?)

I love all animals, but i do eat meat sometimes. Some people seem to think it's weak for a person to care about animals and insects (especially if you're male), but i have been like that since a small boy rescuing insects and animals where i can. And don't care what they think.
Like was said, as long as you're not greedy and the animal is killed humanely i think it's ok.
I do think we should help protect our animals natural habitat though, and let them also have a good life.

Hi OP,
nice topic, let me explain my lifestyle.
I don't eat meat, or anything from a animal (eggs etc.) anymore these days. I used to but not anymore.
I promised myself I will only eat meat or fish if there are no other food items to get where ever I am on this earth.
So far I could always found hundreds or non-animal related food items in the supermarkets and stores.

I love the taste of meat and fish!!!! But cannot stand the incredible cruelty that comes with it anymore.
I promised myself that the only time I will eat meat or fish I will kill, clean it and cook it myself. So far that was never necessary. I eat healthy and yummie every day and it feels good not to be part of the meat industry horrors.

By the way, no more sugar, drugs/alcohol together with a vegetarian lifestyle (try yoga!) will change your health/life
dramatically in many ways.

reply to post by Qumulys

Heating a featherless bird has genetical powers of which ethics can not yet destroy. (until a cooked chicken perfume is invented, which the vegetarians will sprinkle on their tofu I bet!)

, with me its the hog roast sandwich....Attempted the purely vegetarian route but beans and pulses will always come second to hot pork or Beef sammich.

To answer the OP, yes I believe Animals have rights..or least we have a duty(?) to provide the best conditions possible, meaning we should at least attempt to improve welfare across the farming industry
We now buy more locally reared meat..more expensive so we eat less of it, though not everyone has that option available.

reply to post by Qumulys


All hail, funnily enough we had chicken for dinner tonight

I think we have enough laws for animals and how to produce, raise and kill them. For example battery cages for chicken are forbidden here in Germany since 2009, which is a good thing i guess. I once had eggs from a battery and they tasted really awful compared to the eggs we otherwise buy at a farmer who lets his hens run around in an open field and feeds them some natural stuff.

Animals kill each other in a very brutal fashion, if you ever saw some Lions rip some animals to shred and start eating it while it's still alive, i wonder why a small group of humans go crazy about how we kill animals. We do it for the most part in a very quick and by all accounts painless fashion. Especially compared to how Animals kill and eat and i always wondered, why, if PETA and those Animal lovers are so concerned about them, never went out to teach a Lion how to kill another animal in a "humane" way or show them the disgusting world of Tofu (Though i would really love to see this, some PETA guy shoving a handful of Tofu under a Lion's nose...he wouldn't live very long )

Also: Animals don't give us rights or threat us in a 'humane' way. If there's a crazy, hungry Tiger out there, does anyone believe that he thinks "Hmmm...i'm hungry, but eating humans is wrong, well, i guess i will stay hungry"? No, he jumps at the next human he sees and starts to eat him.
So why should we give them rights? We use them for food, they same way they use themselves for food. It's nature's way and there's nothing wrong with it.

I do feel guilty and sad sometimes but humans are carnivores. We have teeth designed just for that, chewing meat, and i certainly wouldn't let my 8 year old become a vegetarian. When he is fully developed he can do whatever but until then my child has to eat meat along with veggies and fish and sugar and everything else a child needs to eat.

On the other hand i don't like it when people do it for fun or just because. Shooting animals for fun or eating kangaroo meat just because. When i was in Malta they wanted me to try their dish made of baby kangaroo and they got offended cuz i didn't even want to try, but i am perfectly happy with chicken so why on earth would i eat/try something like that. The same thing happened with horse bacon in Russia, i mean c'mon, people eat enough pork/chicken meat do we really NEED to eat Australian wildlife or horses ? I don't think so

Originally posted by pierregustavetoutant
Life feeds on life. The morality/immorality of killing is a human invention. As far as Mother Nature is concerned, a dog is no better than a fern is no better than a cow is no better than a fungus is no better than a rock. It's just routine energy transfer.
1 thing I've never figured out is why vegetarians kill and mutilate those poor vegetables. Especially after all the evidence that plants feel pain. Murderous Heathens!

ETA: I support vegetarians because less demand for meat means better prices for me!

edit on 26-2-2012 by pierregustavetoutant because: see above

Reminds me of what a buddy once said, "Hey my food has a chance to escape, those defenseless plants aren't going anywhere".