Do Animals Have Rights, Does It Matter How We Kill And Eat Them?

reply to post by MountainLaurel


It isn't actually all that hard and there are no withdrawal symptoms.

Research long and hard to find the right foods in your area to give you what you need nutritionally.
Where you can, grow your own.

When you get all your nutrition, your body literally craves nothing.
Cravings are a way of your body telling you that you are missing something.

I found that I did still get tastes of junk food in my mouth every now and then. Phantom tastes and smells triggered by memory; of which can be ignored quite easily.
Or on the occasion, I have wanted some junk food like a 'Picnic Bar' just because I wanted to taste those flavours again... Not because I craved it and must have it.

It takes a big commitment on your behalf though.
Meaning going through your cupboards, fridge and freezer to remove all the tempting stuff.

But you can also have a lot of fun with the new dietary change! I tend to have many more smoothies

reply to post by MountainLaurel


I'll give my opinion, but don't expect anyone to take it seriously. Because it is highly based upon what I feel I have learned from animals in mental interaction- or psychic communication, as some call it, and I totally understand and respect that many people think that doesn't really exist.

I think we should respect the animals rights to have comfortable lives and deaths without pain or suffering.
I am not against eating meat, and I am not against raising animals for that purpose.
The impressions and messages I have heard most from animals is that most do not have a problem with dying, they are not afraid of death in the way we are, nor of being eaten by another animal. They do, however, fear pain.
"Fear" has different implications here- and I refer to it as a "feeling"- a concept associated with emotion (production of chemicals and hormones in the body).

There are spiritual reasons also, which I will refrain from elaborating on. But I am an advocate for humane treatment and slaughter of animals, and am against the big industrialized livestock operations.
But raise some animals with love and companionship on your farm, kill them with love and care when you need their flesh, and you have their blessings, as well as that of their collective consciousness.

IMO.
Animals don't have any rights.
Neither do humans for that matter, (we are animals too).
So called "rights" are a man-made concept.
They don't actually mean anything.
We designate "rights" to different things, but they are subject to change as situations dictate.
If they are subject to change, then they are not "rights".
Some say it's wrong to kill animals, but it's ok to kill in certain circumstances, therefore, the so called "rights" are null and void.

reply to post by Bluesma


I have no doubt that non-verbal communication happens between humans and animals. Dogs are unbelievably empathetic to thier "humans" and I already shared the story of my cat "sharing" his mouse with me, lol

Good for you that you have the ability to "listen" to thier messages!

reply to post by BrianDamage


No, "rights" refers to an agreed upon value and rule within a collective grouping.
A society can agree upon a certain right that is to be accorded to certain beings, and that can be forfeited in specific cases. It's like a law, and in some cases become a written law.

Originally posted by BrianDamage
IMO.
Animals don't have any rights.
Neither do humans for that matter, (we are animals too).
So called "rights" are a man-made concept.
They don't actually mean anything.
We designate "rights" to different things, but they are subject to change as situations dictate.
If they are subject to change, then they are not "rights".
Some say it's wrong to kill animals, but it's ok to kill in certain circumstances, therefore, the so called "rights" are null and void.

Possibly a better way I could have said this is " Do humans have a moral responsibility when it comes to killing and eating animals"

Originally posted by dadank

Some people point to the wildlife. "Lions brutally kill their prey." But they don't kill prey, then just leave their body. They kill only as much as they need. This world has enough room to meet everyone's needs, not everyone's greed.

It's a total myth that all animals just kill for their needs. Certain species - like the fox - are known to kill and maim just for the fun of it. Heck look at the domestic cat...
That said we are human and should know better. I do believe we have a moral responsibility. Unfortunately packaged cuts of supermarket meat divorce us from the reality of what went on before.
IMO it is OK for the hunter to take what he needs but 'factory farming' has created a whole other issue. We keep some animals in terrible conditions and then kill them in terror in the slaughterhouse. Not only that but we keep finding ways to fatten animals earlier and kill them earlier so some have no life at all.

Originally posted by MountainLaurel

Originally posted by BrianDamage
IMO.
Animals don't have any rights.
Neither do humans for that matter, (we are animals too).
So called "rights" are a man-made concept.
They don't actually mean anything.
We designate "rights" to different things, but they are subject to change as situations dictate.
If they are subject to change, then they are not "rights".
Some say it's wrong to kill animals, but it's ok to kill in certain circumstances, therefore, the so called "rights" are null and void.

Possibly a better way I could have said this is " Do humans have a moral responsibility when it comes to killing and eating animals"

Personally, I don't believe we do.
We have the responsibility to ensure that we don't destroy the habitat in which our food needs to continue it's abundance.
Don't over hunt, over fish etc.
We have a responsibility to ensure that our food is sustained.
These points have nothing to do with morals, and everything to do with our own continuation as a species.

Originally posted by Bluesma
reply to post by BrianDamage

 

No, "rights" refers to an agreed upon value and rule within a collective grouping.
A society can agree upon a certain right that is to be accorded to certain beings, and that can be forfeited in specific cases. It's like a law, and in some cases become a written law.

Fair point, I've learned something, thank you.

Thanks to all who have shared thier thoughts in this thread, for me this subject breaks down to several things to consider.

1. Is eating meat at all ethical?

2. If we eat meat do we have a reponsibility to ensure the animal we eat has a peaceful life and painless death?

3. The health implications of eating meat that has been injected with hormones, and God knows what else, and
dies in fear. ( this would also include genetically modified produce, but that's a another thread.)

4. What I ultimately am willing to do and change in my own life?

reply to post by MountainLaurel


If it tastes good, i eat it. That is really my only rule regarding food.

That said, i am not keen on some of the food processes but can't really afford to do anything about it. For example, as a kid i once broke into a local battery farm just to see whats what. It was pretty horrific seeing so many birds in such a tiny area. That said, battery chickens are cheap and they still taste good!

I have known a few people over the years work in the local bacon factory - some leave because it is disgusting, others love working there (dirt cheap bacon butties in the canteen!).

Generally speaking, i love meat too much to change into a veggie but i do wish some of the practices could be phased out. Growing up in the country, the trucks transporting animals to slaughter always kind of spooked me - the animals just look so sad and like they know exactly what is coming.

Originally posted by ShadowAngel85
reply to post by Qumulys

 

All hail, funnily enough we had chicken for dinner tonight

I think we have enough laws for animals and how to produce, raise and kill them. For example battery cages for chicken are forbidden here in Germany since 2009, which is a good thing i guess. I once had eggs from a battery and they tasted really awful compared to the eggs we otherwise buy at a farmer who lets his hens run around in an open field and feeds them some natural stuff.

Animals kill each other in a very brutal fashion, if you ever saw some Lions rip some animals to shred and start eating it while it's still alive, i wonder why a small group of humans go crazy about how we kill animals. We do it for the most part in a very quick and by all accounts painless fashion. Especially compared to how Animals kill and eat and i always wondered, why, if PETA and those Animal lovers are so concerned about them, never went out to teach a Lion how to kill another animal in a "humane" way or show them the disgusting world of Tofu (Though i would really love to see this, some PETA guy shoving a handful of Tofu under a Lion's nose...he wouldn't live very long

)

Also: Animals don't give us rights or threat us in a 'humane' way. If there's a crazy, hungry Tiger out there, does anyone believe that he thinks "Hmmm...i'm hungry, but eating humans is wrong, well, i guess i will stay hungry"? No, he jumps at the next human he sees and starts to eat him.
So why should we give them rights? We use them for food, they same way they use themselves for food. It's nature's way and there's nothing wrong with it.

You sum it up very well sir. Kudos to you.

The hard reality is you need to be human to have human ideas.
Animals are intellegence, show emotion, and communicate. But no matter how hard you try to portray it it is STILL AT AN ANIMAL LEVEL.

Yes there are exceptions like the gorilla who used sign language. But those are VERY FEW. At best they are trained as so and will not reach a HUMAN level of understanding or use.

My dog (for example) loves me, shows emotion, and can learn commands/to read me. But it looks at me though a dogs eyes and as part of a dog pack. No matter how hard I may want it it will NOT TREAT ME AS A HUMAN, but look at me as a weird type of dog.
Ideas like innocent untill proven guilty, modesty, justice, ect are lost on her.

Overall outright cruelty is addressed in the law.

But to treat as humans will create a problem that has no good outcome.

To put it bluntly, unless PETA can have a cow go to a court and by itself fill out a statement for an order of protection against the slauderhouse, show up in court with a hired lawyer, and testify in english....

THEN GO POUND SAND.

reply to post by MountainLaurel


Nah, stop eating other animals. Common sense. When chimps, in rare occasions, kill monkeys for "food" what they go for first is where "vitamin C" is stored. They want the ascorbic acid, not the meat. Humans eating other animals is as strange a habit as we have picked up as a species.

Originally posted by Aleister
reply to post by MountainLaurel

 

Nah, stop eating other animals. Common sense. When chimps, in rare occasions, kill monkeys for "food" what they go for first is where "vitamin C" is stored. They want the ascorbic acid, not the meat. Humans eating other animals is as strange a habit as we have picked up as a species.

Had to read this a few times before it sunk in, but this is an interesting point, primates, the species most closely related to humans (as far as we know anyways) are all vegetarians I believe? Maybe they eat bugs too?

Maybe it all started when humans discovered fire?

reply to post by Aleister


Not a good example to hold up though, is it? If i am not mistaken, primates are not capable of going into space, flying, inventing computers, etc. Maybe the fact we eat what we fancy has helped in some unnoticed ways in evolution? (don't know, just throwing it out there).

Originally posted by Flavian
reply to post by Aleister

 

Not a good example to hold up though, is it? If i am not mistaken, primates are not capable of going into space, flying, inventing computers, etc. Maybe the fact we eat what we fancy has helped in some unnoticed ways in evolution? (don't know, just throwing it out there).

Another interesting point, has eating meat advanced man's intelligence?

reply to post by MountainLaurel


I think your daughter was right.. When we have such a choice of foods there is no need to kill animals..

I could quite easily go without meat, i just eat it as it's there, and i probably shouldn't but i think oh it's dead now i might as well eat it.

Originally posted by purplemer
reply to post by MountainLaurel

 

I think your daughter was right.. When we have such a choice of foods there is no need to kill animals..

"From the mouths of babes" , cetainly made her mom think twice!

Originally posted by purplemer
reply to post by MountainLaurel

 

I think your daughter was right.. When we have such a choice of foods there is no need to kill animals..

Why should we though?

Personally, i do not like most veggie dishes i have tasted - i do not know if this is pyschological or what but they just taste horrid to me (texture, taste, etc). For me, i must have some meat with my main meal. Without it, i am always hungry! Plus some animals only exist because of our desire to eat them - pigs, cows, etc are all creatures created by humans for food (they do not exist in the wild).

It is all about choice for me. If people want meat then fine. Likewise, if people want veggies, then fine. One or the other should not be imposed on people.