Muslims: I'm becoming very tired of your violence

reply to post by METACOMET

To Paraphrase the first computer to star in it's own movie (Wargames). The only winning move was not to play.

2nd.

Originally posted by nusnus
Look up Al-Qaeda.

I have.

Al Qaeda as an ultimately or organically Islamic organisation, do not exist. They were invented by the American Central Intelligence Agency, and their leadership at least are funded by the Agency, as well as having originally been trained by them.

I am well aware that, to a very large extent, the Islamic threat has been manufactured by the American intelligence community, as their current source of pretext for ongoing Friedmanite neocolonialism in the Middle East, and also to a lesser extent as justification for continuing fascist encroachment and dismantling of the Jeffersonian Republic at home. My point with this post, is that I do not believe that American manufacturing of said threat, by itself, is entirely or exclusively responsible for said threat's existence.

I am rapidly beginning to believe, that Islam is its' own worst enemy.

Although one of those bombs hit his house by accident and killed his cousin who was sleeping in the same room with him, the reason they decided to leave the country was because Al-Qaeda became increasingly active after American take over. They started kidnapping teenage boys to use as members, if they couldn't convince them they'd threaten to kill their families, if they resisted they were shot dead on site and members of their families would be found days later dead infront of their homes or offices.

To at least some degree, they likely would have been Iraqis who were paid by the Americans to do this. As I have said, Al Qaeda does not exist, other than as front. I would encourage you to watch John Perkins' interview from Zeitgeist: Addendum, where he mentions how Kermit Roosevelt was able to pay Iranians to riot, in order to overthrow the Shah.

Like I said; I am aware of the amount of wrong that has been committed on the American side of the fence.

The problem is, that Islam's belief in its' right to subjugate the entirety of the rest of the human race, did not begin with the Americans, nusnus. I know what Muslims have done in India. I know about the temples that have been smashed. I know about the fact that it was the murder of Hindus by Muslims, which led to the partition and formation of Pakistan. I also know, that if I were to go to India today, there are temples which as a white individual, I would not be admitted to; and I know that the relentless violence and expansionism of Islam, as well as Christianity, is likely responsible for that.

My father read to me about the Knights of Malta, nusnus. I know that if it were not for Charlemagne, I and everyone else in the Western world would likely be speaking Arabic today. As an Australian, I live south of the single most populous Islamic nation on the face of the planet, Indonesia; and our fear of their invasion, is the lever that the Americans have been able to use, to destroy the sovereignty of my country. Australia is currently governed by a blatant puppet of the Americans, Julia Gillard; and there is about to be another challenge to her leadership this Monday, because she is not the leader that the people want.

I know about the Buddhist statues that were defaced by the Taliban. Buddhism is the most liberal and peaceful religion on the planet; Muslims will receive no sympathy from me, in relation to violence towards any adherents or artifacts of it. Islam could learn much from them.

I know about the Australian woman who was attacked by a Lebanese mob on a beach in Sydney in 2005. Her crime was wearing a bikini. I know about the riots that have occurred in France. I know about the degree to which Sharia law is being implemented, all over the planet. I know of the degree to which Europeans believe that they are currently faced with genuine extinction because of Islam, and I know about how Islamic behaviour itself, has contributed to that belief.

It has taken a long time, and I have consistently tried to avoid this, but Islam and the animals that populate it, have now finally managed it. I am truly angry. I have had enough of the injustice. I have had enough of the fear.

The Americans are guilty of vast crimes against Islam. I will not deny that. But I will have enough of the claim, that this is a one sided argument.

When the Americans created the bogeyman of Communism, I agreed then that the threat had been woven from whole cloth. With Islam, it has not been. With Islam, the threat is real.

Originally posted by Frankenchrist

Originally posted by petrus4

I'm trying not to, but it is honestly difficult to avoid wishing that Islam simply did not exist, to be honest. I can't help but feel as though the world would be much more peaceful, and a much better place in general, without it.

How bout we get rid of all religions?

If that were to happen, people would be F-ing in the streets.

it would be glorious.


What a world.

"Imagine there's no heaven.
It's easy if you try.
No Hell below us.
Above us only sky..."

Originally posted by METACOMET
reply to post by beezzer

 

What would have been winning the war?

We're dealing with a culture that sees negotiation as a sign of weakness. We're dealing with a culture that sees compromise as a sign of weakness. Yet, all the west does now is negotiate and compromise.

Winning the war would be hitting them so hard that they actually respected us. To hell with winning hearts and minds. That's never going to happen. Winning the war would be striking so hard that they feared OUR retaliation. Winning the war would mean them fearing us.

We have the Patriot Act, and a healthy level of fear now in the west. They have won. We treat our own culture as second class citizens while granting exceptions for those that we fight. They have won. They act, we react.
They dictate our responses through their actions. They have won.

In order to call ourselves the victors, we'd need to be in a position where we are not afraid and they are.

That's the way I see it at least.

reply to post by nusnus


You know the only reason they are called that is because the USA called them that. Without the title who is who over there? Tink about it.

reply to post by beezzer


The harder you hit the more innocents you kill, the more innocents you kill, the more insurgents and anti American sentiment in the Middle East. More terrorist attacks on the US sees tighter security controls and more limitations on your liberty.

It seems the only way you can win is if you kill every Muslim on the planet. If you want to do that what kind of country does that make you.

Originally posted by woodwardjnr
reply to post by beezzer

 

The harder you hit the more innocents you kill, the more innocents you kill, the more insurgents and anti American sentiment in the Middle East. More terrorist attacks on the US sees tighter security controls and more limitations on your liberty.

It seems the only way you can win is if you kill every Muslim on the planet. If you want to do that what kind of country does that make you.

We don't kill every muslim on the planet. Just enough to show what would happen if we are attacked. But we're not doing that. They have won. Sharia is slowly encroaching. We have lost. As a culture, we are losing ground.

You state winning would be killin every muslim.

They see winning is killing everyone who isn't muslim.

reply to post by petrus4


Oh Petrus. You started out calm and ended with an emotional outburst that I can only attribute to one thing: the persistance to mull over a thought too much in your head.

You know there are a lot of people out there such as yourself. They are Muslims, they genuinely believe and fear Zionism take over of the planet in the same way you fear Islamic take over.

I myself grew up around a lot of people who had this very fear because I grew up in Saudi Arabia and there, as with all Arab countries almost, there are certain conspiracy theories that cling and stick and continue for generations since no body bothers to question them.

But I chose to question it, because my parents taught me to question everything.

And I saw, from personal research and experience, that yes, there are Zionist Jews who would like to take over their original lands promised to them by God, and there are those couldn't give two #s. And their numbers varied. Now since said promised lands exist inside Arab lands currently, I understood the Arab fear. But the more I read about the subject the more I realized that said fear would only come to fruition as long as Arab's believed in it in the deepest part of their hearts. This is a moral standpoint for me. One should not base their beliefs on fear. It twists you and turns you into an unbalanced person. Where you think you make solid reasonable judgements, you actually make them out of fear. This is your loss not mine. This is your lack of peace at nights, not mine. You can chose not to fear this, or to feed it with more fear. No matter what I say to you it will not change the fact that YOU have to chose not to be afraid. Find a way to do so. I truly wish this for your own inner peace my friend.

Originally posted by beezzer
We're dealing with a culture that sees negotiation as a sign of weakness. We're dealing with a culture that sees compromise as a sign of weakness. Yet, all the west does now is negotiate and compromise.

They believe, as I have said, that they have the divine right to overrun the entire planet. I do view the Borg as an extremely appropriate analogy for Islam, and truthfully I always have.

I really do not like feeling like this. I honestly don't. But at the same time, I am honestly starting to believe that if the Islamic world wants a war, then we need to give it one; and that we can't stop until we either wipe them out, or beat them to the point where the memory of said beating becomes ingrained in their belief system, so that they will never try and take over the rest of the planet again.

I remember when I used to be bullied at high school. There were times when someone would bully me for literally six months. I would ask them to stop, over and over again. They wouldn't. Finally I went berserk, to the point where I had amnesia afterwards, and bashed them to the point where they believed they were going to die. After that, they left me alone.

I hated doing that, but they made it clear to me that they were not going to respond to anything else. Martin Luther King has said that violence is not the answer; but the problem is that in my experience, it honestly has been. Sometimes it's the only answer.

Psychologically, that's the point that I'm reaching with Islam. I honestly don't think some Muslims are going to stop, any other way.

Originally posted by xxdaniel21

Originally posted by petrus4
I've seen news reports of at least four difference incidents of Islamic violence over the last 24 hours.

I understand your frustration with what you are hearing, and i find their extremist views quite damaging to humanity, but do you understand that you are basing your hatred (in this thread - i don't know your general views), on MSM?

I mean, i won't exactly find reports on fundamental christianity in the 6 o'clock news, but if i searched in the right places, i'm sure i would find many.
Keep in mind, your country (assuming you're a western nation), has to justify their place in a war against islamic extremism, so it's not exactly surprising to see islam being showcased as a generally-violent, stone age religion.
Also keep in mind that while their religion can be seen as "physically violent", christianity in the middle ages was very intimidating and violent in it's own ways. Research the crusades for instance.

While the tv box shows you the western world's modern achievements, they fail to show the advancement of the middle east - not only as a religion, but as a people.

Any religion in it's extreme form is damaging! Not any particular one. And try not to trust the tv too much. If you're not quite sure, google it. Gather information from people from MANY countries - not just christian america.

I meet a lot of muslims every day in my job, and believe me - they are extremely peaceful and respect us as PEOPLE. I work as a auto electrician, and i work on a lot of taxis, so while they're waiting, they've come up to me and asked which way is west, so they can pray. They don't harm me. They're friendly towards me. They shake my hand - they even come in and give us gifts because we treat them with equal respect.

It's not worth the hatred man! There are evil #ing people, and all it takes is one person to convince a thousand more that they're bad people because of their religion.

Focus less on the bad ones, and try to break the chain of indoctrination. Make your own decision.

I got an idea, next muslim you see, go up to him and say hi. Offer him help. Even if he is confused and acts hostile, you will remain in his thoughts the whole day because you were different. You don't belong in this western belief that we are perfect, and they are lesser

Why look to history for large scale Christian extremism when there are much more recent examples:

George Bush: 'God told me to end the tyranny in Iraq'

George Bush has claimed he was on a mission from God when he launched the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq, according to a senior Palestinian politician in an interview to be broadcast by the BBC later this month.

One of the delegates, Nabil Shaath, who was Palestinian foreign minister at the time, said: "President Bush said to all of us: 'I am driven with a mission from God'. God would tell me, 'George go and fight these terrorists in Afghanistan'. And I did. And then God would tell me 'George, go and end the tyranny in Iraq'. And I did."

www.guardian.co.uk...

reply to post by petrus4
This has actually been a difficult thread to participate in because it calls for answers that aren't nice, that aren't popular.

The borg. A good analogy. Assimilate or die.

As I've stated previously, we aren't winning. They are. I gave my interpretation as to what winning is defined.

We don't have the stones (as a culture) to win this one though.

Originally posted by nusnus
reply to post by petrus4

 

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Oh Petrus. You started out calm and ended with an emotional outburst that I can only attribute to one thing: the persistance to mull over a thought too much in your head.

You know there are a lot of people out there such as yourself. They are Muslims, they genuinely believe and fear Zionism take over of the planet in the same way you fear Islamic take over.

I'm not aware of Jews being violent towards people in almost every country on the planet, nusnus. Granted, the Zionists do other things, yes; but I don't think they do that.

I myself grew up around a lot of people who had this very fear because I grew up in Saudi Arabia and there, as with all Arab countries almost, there are certain conspiracy theories that cling and stick and continue for generations since no body bothers to question them.

This isn't a theory. It's what is happening. Islamic violence is real. Maybe I'm wrong about the global expansionism thing, but I'm not wrong about the level of violence that is being engaged in by Muslims.

I truly wish this for your own inner peace my friend.

I do not like feeling like this; I have already said that. I want the violence to stop. I also do not want a scenario where Muslims believe that they have the right to kill someone who is not an adherent of their religion, for burning a copy of the Qu'ran. I don't say that because I want to burn copies of it myself; but the fact that they do think that, as I've said, implies to me that they think that the entire planet should be subject to their law.

reply to post by beezzer


How many non muslims have been killed in the war on terror? How many muslims are being killed in the war on terror? How many non muslims have have had to flee their countries compared how many muslims?

I do not fear Muslims, I think much of the propaganda suits our current foreign policies. It's far easier for our public to support our foreign policies if we see the enemy as being different to us and a serious threat.

You talk about the encroachment of sharia in the west, but again this is being sensationalised. What about the encroachment of American hegemony on the rest of the world?

reply to post by Shred


It's not Muslim's who are the bad guys they're just fighting for their land, and their own right to freedom and speech and freedom of mind, like we in the west have have, (questionably). Why are our western principles seen as more important, or righteous? Each to their own I say, the least we can do as a race is be empathetic and reasonable to other human beings preferences and liberties. Muslim's aren't bad people, they're better, more respectable, and disciplined people than basically all western people. Its our western inverted totalitarian government which is destroying the planet.

reply to post by beezzer


No one is winning Beezer. Muslim nations continue to be invaded and bombed by the West and we are implementing more draconian measures in the name of security in response. We all lose, apart from those who profit from wars and homeland security.

reply to post by abominatonofdesolation


Sorry didnt mean to reply to you just the thread as whole.

reply to post by woodwardjnr
I've been musing about a thread on America hegemony. We've been at war, as a nation, more than we've been at peace.

But to the topic at hand, if we as a western culture, backed away completely, I feel that it wouldn't be enough to stop the violence.

Middle Eastern cultures see that as a sign of weakness, as an oppourtunity for expansion.

We can play the numbers game, but it's a false foundation for honest debate. Because they don't put the same value on life as western cultures do.

reply to post by petrus4


Oh please, so you're not aware of the whole: 'Jews own every other company out there so there must be some kind of plan to subjugate the entire planet to their monetary system thereby making us all slaves to their IMF' theory? It doesn't have to be open violence see.

There are a lot of people who would tell you this fear is based on reality. Again, maybe it is real, but it is an extremely derailing thought to think EVERY Jewish person is in on this conspiracy. Heck, its derailing to think half the Jewish people in the world is in on this conspiracy.

Well, what am I saying, this is a conspiracy site after all, I shouldn't be surprised that we are discussing 'conspiracy theories' within entire religions or governments or even nations. But trust me on this one, the amount of violence you're seeing or choosing to see from history, is not something done in the name of 'taking over the planet for Islam'. Such a thought is so alien to me I have to itch my head and go, where on earth did he get that one?

reply to post by beezzer


Let me remind you that when Islam was living its Golden Age during the Dark Ages of Europe, Europeans didn't put as much value into human endeavor either. Human history is littered with cultural ups and downs.
It is true they don't value human life in the ME as much as westerners do right now, but this does not mean that the tides will not turn on you someday, that they will somehow learn to value life more than you and you will find yourself in a culture that has gone downhill. No bodys culture is free from the ability to fall is it?

I am tired of these foolish threads.
There are about 180 million muslims in my country called India and i haven't heard of any violence over this issue.
The amount of 'good' the so called civilized western world continuously does for muslim world, i am not surprised some negligble fraction of muslims turn to such measures.
You haven't felt anything like those suffer regularly and no, everyone isn't Gandhi.
If you feel so offended by violence against innocent people of your country, why don't you get up and stand for the innocents who are suffering in muslim world???
Peace breeds peace and violence breeds violence.
Get your as*es up for every innocent not just your religion and countries, i am sure everything will be good.
Take a stand against your government instead of talking nonsense.