Schumann Resonances, Electro Magnetism, and the Brain.

reply to post by xecoybh


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Originally posted by xecoybh
reply to post by xecoybh

 

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That's a pretty representative case of poor science, on a few levels. The only real result they quote is Fig. 2, and any college student who would submit anything like that would be grilled by the professor. Look at the error bars. I give them credit they actually put in those error bars (face it without the error bars there wouldn't be much to talk about). Now, with the bars in place, how the hell did they draw the curves based on the data? These are simply meaningless, as anyone can draw 1,000 different shapes which would still be acceptable from the statistical point of view, and they don't even have a hypothesis to test based on this data. So this is what sort of information they present (with much pomp): ZERO.

And I guess they realize that, because the next page, which is supposed to conclude the paper, contains material usually found in introduction, which is quoting other sources and such.

Shame.

Originally posted by buddhasystem
reply to post by xecoybh

 

Do you care to explain how a 7Hz (whatever this means) magnetic field can be modulated in MHz range and still count as 7Hz?

Also, how does this all relate to "geomagnetic"? The Earth's magnetic field is not modulated either in 7Hz or MHz range.

At least judging from the abstract, that's one p!ss poor paper.

Dude the 7 hertz is frequency and the megahertz is amplitude. So the Earth's field is electromagnetic but it is pulsing at 7 hertz frequency. For example: Effects of 7 Hz-modulated 450 MHz electromagnetic radiation on human performance in visual memory tasks

Purpose : The aim was to examine low-level 7 Hz-modulated 450 MHz radiation effects on human performance in visually presented neuropsychological tasks associated with attention and short-term memory. Materials and methods : A homogeneous group of 100 subjects (37 female, 63 male) were randomly assigned to either the exposed (10-20 min, 0.158mW cm -2) or the sham-exposed group. A battery of three different tests measured attention and shortterm memory. Task 1 involved alternately selecting black digits from 1 to 25 in ascending order and white digits from 24 to 1 in descending order. The time spent on the task and the number of errors were recorded and analysed. Task 2 involved viewing a picture of 12 objects during 3 s, followed by a list of 24 words. The subject was required to select words representing previously presented objects. In task 3, an array of letters in 10 rows (60 in each row) was presented, and the subject was required to identify all examples of a particular two-letter combination. Results : The results of tasks 1 and 3 showed a significant increase in variances of errors (p

Originally posted by fulllotusqigong
Dude the 7 hertz is frequency and the megahertz is amplitude.

With respect, "megahertz" is the unit of frequency. Look it up. It can't be an "amplitude". This is plain.

So the Earth's field is electromagnetic but it is pulsing at 7 hertz frequency. For example: Effects of 7 Hz-modulated 450 MHz electromagnetic radiation on human performance in visual memory tasks

First, the Earth's field is a fairly static magnetic field and sure as hell does not oscillate in megahertz range (also see on bottom of this post). Second, you seem to confuse the Schumann resonance signal with its peak moving slightly around 7+ Hertz, with the Earth's field. These are different entities, get it? Schumann's signal -- these are just standing waves in a giant waveguide. If the ionosphere was still there but the Earth natural field was gone altogether, there would still be Schumann waves.

Second, at least this particular title of the paper is more descriptive and precise. So I can see that a 450MHz carrier is modulated with a 7Hz signal, fine. In Persinger's paper, it's a classic word soup and not clear at all, perhaps because they wanted to emphasize the 7Hz part. Funny they didn't mention the exact high frequency they used as a carrier.

Again, the Earth's field does not "pulsate" at 7Hz. The Schumann resonance is not the Earth's field, but a standing wave in a giant waveguide. It's typically excited by lightnings. Earth's does have a fairly static magnetic field, but it's not the same, and the Earth's magnetic field is NOT modulated with 7Hz.

reply to post by buddhasystem

In the present experiment subjects were exposed to either no field (sham conditions) or to either 20 nT or 70 nT, 7 Hz, amplitude modulated (mHz range) magnetic fields for 30 min.

That's Persinger's description of the study -- it's just as clear as the above two examples I gave. Unless you're practicing "willful ignorance" as you practice then the meaning is very clear. If you want to be confused then by all means. So the term "amplitude modulated" can be exchanged with "frequency modulated" with the "amplitude modulated" applying to the Megahertz. While the "frequency modulated" applies to the 7 hertz.

Dr Adey demonstrated how a 147-megahertz (MHz) field, which at tissue level had an intensity of 0.8 milliwatts per square centimetre, caused an efflux or release of calcium ions from the irradiated brain tissue. This response only occurred when the ELF modulation of the microwave carrier-wave had an amplitude modulated at 6-20 hertz (Hz).

So the amplitude modulation is also the frequency carrier wave as a pulse signal. Dr. Ross Adey on mind control

Reported central nervous system interactions with environmental fields have tested both electric and magnetic ELF fields, and a range of radio-frequency (RF) and microwave fields. These RF/microwave fields have examined both thermal and nonthermal exposures, with either unmodulated fields or with various ELF amplitude-, pulse- and frequency-modulations.

O.K. so here we have ELF as amplitude, pulse and frequency modulations.

For amplitude- or pulse-modulated RF/microwave fields, there is the implication that some form of envelope demodulation occurs in brain tissue recognition of ELF modulation components, but the tissue may remain essentially transparent to the same signal presented as an unmodulated (CW) carrier wave ([Adey, 1981a]; [Adey, 1999]).

So the megahertz as a carrier wave is not the factor -- but rather it's the ELF pulse as the carrier signal or carrier wave.

From Dr. Ross Adey pdf

Schumann resonances - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schumann_resonances Effects on Schumann resonances have been reported following geomagnetic and ionospheric disturbances.

So the "Earth's field" aka geomagnetic is pulsed at 7 hertz as the Schumann resonance. There are "geomagnetic" disturbances of the Schumann resonance. It's not an either/or situation -- the Earth's magnetic field interacts with the Schumann Resonance. But hey -- if you want to parse out the differences go for it.

“In essence,” says Dr. Oschman, “the electromagnetic fields produced by a practitioner’s hands can induce current flows in the tissues and cells of individuals who are in close proximity." Further evidence of this is documented in The Electricity of Touch by the Institute of HeartMath. The brain waves of energy therapists synchronize with the earth’s magnetic field. Also in the extremely low frequency (ELF) range is the Schumann Resonance, the basic frequency of the earth’s electromagnetic spectrum estimated to be 7.83 Hz. Some scientists call it the “tuning fork” of the planet, claiming that it generates natural healing properties when living things are entrained to its rhythm. Entrainment occurs when two objects are synchronized by a common vibration or frequency level. This kind of entrainment is common among energy healers in the process of working on clients. Researcher Robert C. Beck used EEG recordings to study brain wave activity in a variety of practitioners in the act of healing, and they all registered brain wave activity in the alpha state, averaging about 7.8 to 8.0 Hz. He concluded that during active therapy, healers’ brain waves became phase and frequency-synchronized with the earth’s electromagnetic spectrum.

During these moments, the biomagnetic field of the practitioners' hands is at least 1000 times greater than normal, and not as a result of internal body current. Toni Bunnell (1997) suggests that the linking of energy fields between practitioner and earth allows the practitioner to draw on the 'infinite energy source' or 'universal energy field' via the Schuman Resonance.

The hypothesis and model of the Schumann Resonance (SR) signal being the biophysical mechanism for the biological and human health effects of Solar/Geomagnetic Activity (SGMA) is strongly supported, Cherry (2002). Resonant absorption of the SR signal in human brains is classically sensible because of the matching of oscillating frequency ranges of the SR spectrum and EEG rhythms. Multiple studies show the S/GMA activity alters Melatonin levels in humans. Cherry (2002) shows that there is multiple, independent evidence of a homeostatic relation to cancer, cardiac, reproductive and neurological effects from altered S/GMA indices that are highly correlated with the SR signal intensity. A vital role of the SR signal is synchronizing the circadian and ELF brain rhythms, a Zeitgeber. In well developed urban areas 50/60 Hz fields in homes and many radiofrequency/ microwave sources expose all people to electromagnetic signals many magnitudes over a million times higher than the SR signal strength, masking the modulation of the human health effects associated with S/GMA.

Dr. Neil Kerry pdf

Originally posted by fulllotusqigong
reply to post by buddhasystem

 

In the present experiment subjects were exposed to either no field (sham conditions) or to either 20 nT or 70 nT, 7 Hz, amplitude modulated (mHz range) magnetic fields for 30 min.

That's Persinger's description of the study -- it's just as clear as the above two examples I gave.

No it's not. Not to a person who actually built circuits modulating signals. I leave aside the strange fact that Persinger used wrong notation (mHz vs MHz), which actually means "milliHertz". That's a blooper like I haven't seen in a paper. The other paper is indeed clear. But wait, they don't specify what exactly the carrier frequency was. Why? Did you read the paper? If yes, did you see what part of the apparatus was generating the carrier? Did you or did you not? Let me know.

So the term "amplitude modulated" can be exchanged with "frequency modulated" with the "amplitude modulated" applying to the Megahertz. While the "frequency modulated" applies to the 7 hertz.

What you are saying here does not make sense, as amplitude modulation is a very different technique from FM. It really is. I have no idea why you feel compelled to talk about things you have no idea about -- just like when you said "megahertz is amplitude". Mmm, sure. Yeah.

Schumann resonances - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schumann_resonances Effects on Schumann resonances have been reported following geomagnetic and ionospheric disturbances.

So the "Earth's field" aka geomagnetic is pulsed at 7 hertz as the Schumann resonance

No it's not. You actually misread the paragraph. Effect "ON" Schumann resonance. It was the resonance which was affected. Reading comprehension?

By the way, the article on geomagnetic storms does not even mention Schumann. And if you care to read the link you quote, the Schumann resonances are affected by certain other disturbances, and the Earth field is not "pulsed" at all, you are making this up. Here is an article. Tell me where it says that the field is "pulsed". When you say "pulsed" it clearly implies modulation, and it's clearly false. There is a low frequency buzz with the amplitude orders of magnitude lower than the almost static magnetic field of the Earth.

reply to post by xecoybh


Another example of deficiencies in Persinger's work:

they used a static magnetometer to measure the value of the field. However, during the real measurement the field was not static and due to inductance of the coils used to produce the field, and characteristics of the driver circuit, the field did not necessarily track the voltage in the same manner as in the static measurement. They could have actually measured the field with a small probe coil and oscilloscope in real time, but they didn't. Why? This is one sloppy bunch of researchers.

But it doesn't stop here. They drive the coils with a signal that has meandering shape. So in fact there is no way that the resulting field would behave in the same manner -- due to self-inductance, there will be lots of transients and "buzz" covering a range of frequencies and amplitudes. Again, it's possible to measure this. And again, it was not done because we are looking at one amateurish bunch of people, who nevertheless like to philosophize about how we are all immersed in a "matrix" of EM fields. Duh!

And again, I'm waiting to see where the "megahertz" signal is coming from, in this setup.

reply to post by buddhasystem

Do you care to explain how a 7Hz (whatever this means) magnetic field can be modulated in MHz range and still count as 7Hz? Also, how does this all relate to "geomagnetic"? The Earth's magnetic field is not modulated either in 7Hz or MHz range. At least judging from the abstract, that's one p!ss poor paper.

Dude you're the one who claimed it was Megahertz -- I was just responding to your incorrect claim.

Megahertz can be "amplitude modulated" so again the amplitude applies to the Megahertz.

Now you have noticed Persinger wrote mHZ not MHZ. haha. Wow so you are trying to blame your mistake on Persinger. Hilarious.

As for the difference between a pulse and "buzz" as you call it. haha.

There is ELF research noting that a background noise of ELF will prevent damage from pulsing or ELF frequency carrier signals -- amplitude modulated. So granted background noise definitely will have an effect.

On what Persinger used to produce his magnetic field -- usually he has some sort of God Helmet that he's infamous for. On measuring the field as a static wave -- well you have stated the Schumann Resonance is a standing wave so I would assume measuring a static wave is closer to the actual Schumann Resonance effect.

I think the pertinent factor they're looking for is if the brain entrains with the ELF signal and so the brain would be in a standing wave resonance with the ELF field.

Glancing at Persinger's paper -- indeed the source of the magnetic field is easily located:

Subjects were seated in a comfortable chair within an acoustically-shielded chamber (Faraday cage) described elsewhere [19]. The chair was located equidistant between 2 coils separated by 1 m. The coils were made from 70 turns each of 30 AWG wire wrapped around two racks of 1.2 m2, and have been used in previous studies [12]. Each coil had a resistance of about 115 . The coils were interfaced with a DOS-based PC (personal computer) through a custom-constructed digital-to-analog (DAC) converter. The PC-DAC apparatus was located outside the chamber.

The actual EEG readings were not static.

So your comments don't seem to apply to what Persinger was doing -- I mean you couldn't even find the source of the magnetic fields when you read the paper. haha.

O.K. I found the type of magnetometer used by Persinger -- here it is in another study:

RESULTS: The triaxial fluxgate magnetometer was determined to be moderately responsive to changes in magnetic field frequency below 10 Hz. At frequencies above 10 Hz the readings corresponded to that of the ambient static geofield.

So for ELF waves at 7 hertz it's not a static reading.

here

Nice try though. haha. Oh you're definitely trying hard. haha. Hilarious.

reply to post by fulllotusqigong


This is getting good!!

I can't wait for the next installment.

Maybe the BS can't think in terms of waves because he's a particle physicist?

Originally posted by fulllotusqigong
reply to post by buddhasystem

 

Do you care to explain how a 7Hz (whatever this means) magnetic field can be modulated in MHz range and still count as 7Hz? Also, how does this all relate to "geomagnetic"? The Earth's magnetic field is not modulated either in 7Hz or MHz range. At least judging from the abstract, that's one p!ss poor paper.

Dude you're the one who claimed it was Megahertz -- I was just responding to your incorrect claim.

Megahertz can be "amplitude modulated" so again the amplitude applies to the Megahertz.

Now you have noticed Persinger wrote mHZ not MHZ. haha. Wow so you are trying to blame your mistake on Persinger. Hilarious.

No, I never made the mistake. Persinger was talking about MHz. The "mHz" is clearly not applicable here, given the window of observation. And you did say that "mhz is amplitude", in that statement:

Dude the 7 hertz is frequency and the megahertz is amplitude

...which is sheer and unadulterated nonsense.

On what Persinger used to produce his magnetic field -- usually he has some sort of God Helmet that he's infamous for.

You obviously did not care to read the paper so you just keep spitting out your content-free pronouncements.

On measuring the field as a static wave -- well you have stated the Schumann Resonance is a standing wave so I would assume measuring a static wave is closer to the actual Schumann Resonance effect.

...and you obviously don't even know the difference between a standing wave and static field. Wow. Standing, static, who cares right? Let's measure amplitude in Hz and assume that the Earth's field is "pulsed". If it's New Age-y enough, who cares, right?

Sorry but the level on knowledge (or lack thereof) makes you patently unable to say anything factually correct in this thread, much less to prove or disprove something.

So your comments don't seem to apply to what Persinger was doing -- I mean you couldn't even find the source of the magnetic fields when you read the paper.

I could -- this was the coils. You, however, cited "God's Helmet". In addition you never showed the source of the "mHZ" signal in the paper.

RESULTS: The triaxial fluxgate magnetometer was determined to be moderately responsive to changes in magnetic field frequency below 10 Hz. At frequencies above 10 Hz the readings corresponded to that of the ambient static geofield.

This instrument is not rated for varying fields, I looked at a few specs. It will show some readings, but these will be bullsh!t. Saying "moderately responsive" is not the same as actually calibrating the instrument (doubt these words mean anything to you, but somebody else will get it). So his 20 vs 70 nT comparison is all cr@p.

Oh you're definitely trying hard. haha.

This is basic lab stuff we are talking about and I used to teach it. So I can do this in my sleep, no need to try hard, but Persinger can't do it if his life depended on it.

Originally posted by Mary Rose
Maybe the BS can't think in terms of waves because he's a particle physicist?

And maybe you never operated an oscilloscope, multimeter or an antenna?

Originally posted by fulllotusqigong
O.K. I found the type of magnetometer used by Persinger -- here it is in another study:

RESULTS: The triaxial fluxgate magnetometer was determined to be moderately responsive to changes in magnetic field frequency below 10 Hz. At frequencies above 10 Hz the readings corresponded to that of the ambient static geofield.

Two problems with your "finding":

a) this is not the same model as used by Persinger et al
b) you conveniently omitted the part in your quote that indicates that even in these conditions, the measurement was cr@p.

Here's a more complete quote: link

RESULTS:
The triaxial fluxgate magnetometer was determined to be moderately responsive to changes in magnetic field frequency below 10 Hz. At frequencies above 10 Hz the readings corresponded to that of the ambient static geofield. The practitioner operating the Toftness Sensometer was unable to detect magnetic fields at high frequencies (above 10 Hz) even at very high EMFs. The fluxgate magnetometer was shown to be essentially a DC/static magnetic field detector and like all such devices it has a limited frequency range with some low level of sensitivity at very low field frequencies. The interexaminer reliability of four Toftness practitioners using the Sensometer on 5 patients showed low to moderate correlation.

CONCLUSIONS:
The fluxgate magnetometer although highly sensitive to static (DC) EMFs has only limited sensitivity to EMFs in the range of 1 to 10 Hz and is very insensitive to frequencies above 10 Hz. In laboratory comparisons of the Sensometer and the fluxgate magnetometer there was an occasional correspondence between the two instruments in detecting magnetic fields within the Merritt coil but these occasions were not reproducible.

Let me translate the science lingo into English: Persinger's knowledge of lab work is p!ss poor and his paper is worthless.

Originally posted by buddhasystem
With respect, "megahertz" is the unit of frequency. Look it up. It can't be an "amplitude". This is plain.

This is very correct. There is a reason that frequency and amplitude describe two different parts of an oscillation. They are not interchangeable.

Full lotus, also of note is that the Schumann Resonance is, of course, based on a "standing wave" with a wavelength of app. 40,000 km (40,000,000m, circumference of Earth). The equation to exchange between wavelength and frequency is c x freq=wavelength. If you were calculating a different medium, c does change, but in this case, we are looking at electromotive forces, so we use the speed of light. 299,792,458 m/s x (n) = 40,000km. Ill let you do the math specifically, but its also important to make sure all of the units you are working in are equivalent before starting, so convert that 40,000km to m (meters). This ensures proper results. In this specific case, there are fluctuations, so even with proper results, we are getting "rough" answers.

"MHz" and "Hz" are related in the same exact way that "Km" and "m" are related. That is through, essentially, moving a decimal point to make some numbers easier to work with. They are nothing more than different descriptors for the exact same number. So, Mhz can be illustrated in Hz, and Hz in Mhz. This is perhaps what is meant. Of course, 7 Hz is equivalent to .000007 Mhz.

However, we can also use the amplitude (the height of the peak and valley) and the frequency to find other frequencies that intersect at these points. This is illustrated, quite effectively I might add, here. It is very important to note that these are two distinct waves.

Buddhasystem, I find it interesting that so many in a capacity to actually educate decide instead to denigrate. I quoted the "with respect" part of what you said specifically for that reason. I see very little of said "respect." I am not interested in your intentions, but perhaps just showing a different way to look at your data and what you do with it. Very few will just take your word for it, even if delivered with the utmost respect. Tear the other person down, and it automatically sets up a situation where both sides will see the other as "wrong," regardless of accuracy of information. You spend a significant amount of time setting yourself up in this situation. And most you speak with are all to happy to oblige. Personally, I think that all "things" are, in fact, waves or cycles. If nothing else, this applies to the entropic nature of all matter and organized energy.

Originally posted by sinohptik
Buddhasystem, I find it interesting that so many in a capacity to actually educate decide instead to denigrate. I quoted the "with respect" part of what you said specifically for that reason. I see very little of said "respect." I am not interested in your intentions

You said you find it interesting, but conclude with that you are not interested. Curious.

Anyhow, I always show respect to people who are willing to listen. Very often, a paper or a source is quoted like it's some kind of gospel, whereas the person providing a link doesn't have the capacity to comprehend either the method of measurement, or the systematic errors, or not much for that matter. In addition, there is the general "mainstream science is a sham" attitude which I frankly find to be very, very stupid. Sorry but there is a line in the sand. As Lewis Black said, "sorry but I can't be kind here".

Very few will just take your word for it, even if delivered with the utmost respect.

Oh I know, but not only that, they will always skip the plentiful opportunities to read up on the subject and get a tiny grain of education in the process. By the way I've been wrong on some occasions, and I'm sure I will be mistaken again, and I welcome a substantiated discussion. But you know, a pronouncement like "there is a black hole in the center of the Rodin's toroidal magnet" is so outrageously silly that I stop to care whether somebody will take my word to that effect. Whatever.

Personally, I think that all "things" are, in fact, waves or cycles. If nothing else, this applies to the entropic nature of all matter and organized energy.

This is so comfortably generic there is no substance in this statement. Everything is a "frequency", or a "fractal", a "harmonic" or some kind of "sacred geometry". < yawn/ >

Originally posted by buddhasystem
You said you find it interesting, but conclude with that you are not interested. Curious.

Its more curious to me that you took it to mean that. That I find interesting. Again, your intent is none of my concern. How you carry it out towards others is of interest.

"sorry but I can't be kind here".

Thats your choice, obviously.

But you know, a pronouncement like "there is a black hole in the center of the Rodin's toroidal magnet" is so outrageously silly that I stop to care whether somebody will take my word to that effect. Whatever.

Then, and I ask this sincerely, why do you even bother? Your time could be so much better spent embroiling yourself in the science you espouse. There is much more to learn, and when there isnt (which wont happen, in my opinion), then any further scientific pursuits are rendered null and void. How can you, scientifically and rationally, discard a pattern someone has noticed because their presentation isnt up to your standards? It is actually in this scenario that you could not only explore it, but given your supposed credentials, give legitimacy to something which may make quite a difference. What you do now drives people to exclusively navigate these roads through pseudo-scientific means, and then complain when its pseudo-science or, as you say, comfortably generic. You are fighting a shadow of your own creation. It should be obvious to you that what Rodin is observing is indicative of some of the anomalies associated with inductance. Why not use your time to help understand instead of destroy?

Believe it or not, I actually understand what you mean, I just dont understand all the effort that goes into denigration that could instead be put into exploration. And if it isnt deemed "worthy" of exploration, one could easily find a topic which is, neh? It just seems like so much wasted effort from what is obviously a sharp mind.

This is so comfortably generic there is no substance in this statement. Everything is a "frequency", or a "fractal", a "harmonic" or some kind of "sacred geometry".

Generic or not, the cyclic structure of entropy applies to all things. To disregard it so nonchalantly is telling, as well as slightly humorous, and I will be referring back to this in the future. I assume, and probably safely, that you accept e=mc2, correct? In this (my) context, that is quite a comfortably generic statement as well. Actually, when things are "comfortably generic," it is pointing towards it being not only an identifiable pattern, but one which applies generically. We just need to put applicable math to it to make it usable/workable for us. Thats the step that many people miss. Though, if that step has not been taken, it doesnt mean what is being presented is "gobbledeegook." Its just presented as "gobbledeegook."

If everything is NOT a cycle.. (a repeating, comfortable, consistent pattern) then what use is science? How can we possibly determine, with any reliability, something which has zero pattern whatsoever?

This thread presents quite a large amount of information. Some I agree with, some I do not (and like you, I could be entirely wrong on the things which I disagree). Surely feel free to call me a "new-ager" whenever I use the term "energy" Just make sure you do the same for yourself, whenever you use it in any context. I can assure you I do not say any of these things with a "new-age pseudo-science" connotation, but that does not speak to your perception of it.

This is starting (starting?) to go off topic, but my point is that you are wasting your time. Time which could be used for much more productive endeavors, which you are seemingly capable of doing.

Originally posted by sinohptik
Then, and I ask this sincerely, why do you even bother?

These threads may be eventually visited by people with adequate comprehension skills and who are capable of learning. I leave markers and directions which I hope will help and prevent them from being mislead.

How can you, scientifically and rationally, discard a pattern someone has noticed because their presentation isnt up to your standards?

These are not "my" standards, this is scientific method and basic lab skills. If you try to pour vinegar into your engine instead of oil, any mechanic would tell you it's not a good idea. Now, it's not this particular mechanic's standards that say you shouldn't do that.

It should be obvious to you that what Rodin is observing is indicative of some of the anomalies associated with inductance.

Sorry but if someone is describing lizards and how they feed, most people will assume that the discussion is about reptiles, not about evolution of haiku in Japan. Rodin does not really speak of any anomalies that he can demonstrate as deviating from what a coil is supposed to do. He stares into the camera and says that he has created a black hole on a workbench in his lab. How stupid is that?

Why not use your time to help understand instead of destroy?

If you look at the past few pages in this thread, I actually presented a fairly detailed analysis of the paper offered for discussion here. I can't imagine a more helpful set of posts for those who are willing to think. If one is content with "wow those 7 Hz is really something, cool", they won't find it interesting. If one actually tries to make an effort and understand the measurement and its implications, they would find it very useful. If I'm destroying anything here, it's ignorance.

Generic or not, the cyclic structure of entropy applies to all things. To disregard it so nonchalantly is telling, as well as slightly humorous, and I will be referring back to this in the future. I assume, and probably safely, that you accept e=mc2, correct? In this (my) context, that is quite a comfortably generic statement as well.

It's actually not. We use it to calculate energy release in nuclear reactions and particle physics interactions. And it works pretty damn well. I recall one aircraft carrier was decorated with a giant inscription of that sort right on the deck, symbolizing their source of energy.

reply to post by sinohptik

It should be obvious to you that what Rodin is observing is indicative of some of the anomalies associated with inductance.

It just occurred to me that you really believe that Rodin does observe something. There is a separate thread for that, so feel free to post your account of these observations there. In two years that I was looking at it, there is no evidence of any kind to support your claim.

Richard Merrick has posted a link to an interesting 9 page .pdf on his Facebook page for InterferenceTheory.com. The title is "INCURSION OF THE GOLDEN RATIO Φ INTO THE SCHRÖDINGER WAVE FUNCTION USING THE Φ RECURSIVE HETERODYNING SET".

The abstract:

Abstract. Incursion is suggested to be a fundamental physical principle of the universe [1]. We take steps in this direction by analyzing recursion in the Schrödinger equation. The Golden Ratio Phi (Φ) is an extraordinary and ubiquitous irrational number of value 1.618033…Phi’s presence may be seen in both biological and astronomical realms and recently in the quantum mechanical and physical realms. In the biological realm, the number Phi can be seen in both Phyllotaxis and DNA. In the astronomical realm, its presence is found in the spiral structures of galaxies. In physics, Phi can now be related to the g-factors of the electron, proton and neutron. This paper will demonstrate that Phi is also intimately related to the quantum realm by virtue of its presence in the quantum mechanical wave function ? (x, y, z, t). The basis for the compact incorporation of Φ into the wavefunction will be derived by solving the Schrödinger Wave Equation and the use of the Phi recursive heterodyning set of wavelengths ?n. Solutions to the Schrödinger Wave Equation based on these recursive wavelengths and Φ will be derived in both Cartesian and Polar coordinates.

The conclusion:

Conclusions

In conclusion, it may be surmised that the state function ? (x, y, z, t) of the Time-independent Schrödinger wave equation is directly proportional to a pre-exponential factor containing the four basic constants (B4C), namely 2, e, p and Φ and the time-independent wavefunction ?(x, y, z). This conclusion arises as a direct result of the incorporation of the heterodyning set of wavelengths into the actual classical Schrödinger wave equation. Also, it appears that by so doing, this paper has demonstrated that individual wavelengths and/or frequencies are actually a summation of an infinite number of wavelengths or frequencies. This concept, brought forth in this paper tends to support the so-called “Many Worlds Interpretation” (MWI) of quantum theory as opposed to the Copenhagen Interpretation whereby the “collapse” of the quantum mechanical wavefunction ? occurs as a result of the mere “observation” of a subatomic particle. Additionally, perhaps the most important concept resulting from this paper is that the ubiquitous irrational number Phi (Φ ) is both an integral and essential constant in the quantum mechanical realm of reality.

Originally posted by Mary Rose
Richard Merrick has posted a link to an interesting 9 page .pdf on his Facebook page for InterferenceTheory.com.

Here's the image and explanation that goes with the link:

This is an illustration of "phi-recursive heterodyning" demonstrating how harmonics emerge from the golden ratio by following the Fibonacci series backward. From nothing comes something.

Originally posted by sinohptik
This thread presents quite a large amount of information. Some I agree with, some I do not (and like you, I could be entirely wrong on the things which I disagree).

This is starting (starting?) to go off topic, but my point is that you are wasting your time.

Time which could be used for much more productive endeavors, which you are seemingly capable of doing.

Welcome and thanks for your posts.

There are several things in this thread I disagree with too... but I read and research what they are saying because what I thought last year is different from what I think now, which will inevitably be different from what I think next year...

That's the wonderful thing about learning with an open mind

The more people approaching the topic openly with their knowledge, the more we can all learn together.

Some in here are open only to the official stories and seem to only wish to force that upon everyone. This I object to... but open and honest constructive query of the topic, even while disagreeing is very welcome.