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Originally posted by DISRAELI
reply to post by harryhaller
Nearly everything that happens in Revelation is either the persecution of the church or God's response to the persecution of the church (this being the subject of the book). So when we say that the man of sin, the persecutor, hasn't been revealed yet, that amounts to most of the book which is still to come.
As in the case of an Agatha Christie novel; until the murder has taken place, and the process of detecting the murderer has been set in motion, the book hasn't really got under way.
In any case, the events of ch6, the "Four Horsemen" episode, are so devastating to the world that I can't match them against anything that has happened so far. I think we're still waiting for them. If we're still waiting for ch6, we're also waiting for the events which follow ch6.
COLBE:
The biggest hint, a help to not being deceived. It is prophesied in Daniel and by current prophets, The anti-Christ is going to abolish the Eucharist. Why would he do that if it were not true?
Originally posted by DeadSeraph
To answer your first point: When my loved ones have asked for prayer (or I have asked them for prayer) it's understood that we are asking each other to pray to God on our behalf, not to pray TO them. We also pray to God DIRECTLY, through Christ.
In regards to your second point, I contend that all of these various forms of prayer are reserved for God alone, as directing prayer of any kind to any human being (dead or living) would be a direct violation of the first commandment.
Originally posted by DISRAELI
Originally posted by colbe
Proof, this is why it will only be God to change Protestants
The Catholic church needs to learn enough humility to understand that Protestants DON'T NEED to be changed. They are Christians.
The topic of this thread is Revelation prophecy and date-setting.
When we were talking about Mary, we were still (just) within the topic, because I was explaining why i could not accept Mary-associated prophecy for date-setting purposes.
Once we get into the whole gamut of differences between the Catholic and Protestant communities, we are wandering way off topic.
One more point. Let me educate you on one aspect of ATS practice,
What you call "tearing my posts apart" is actually recommended practice here on ATS.
I am quoting only the selected comments to which I am replying. That is what I am supposed to do.
You and other comparative newcomers tend to quote an entire post and just add comments at the bottom. The Mods hate that sort of thing, for various reasons. S.O. set up the character limit on posts in an attempt to discourage it.
So now, I hope, you understand why I quote your posts in a selective way.
Originally posted by colbe
"Protestants DON'T NEED to be changed."....sounds very humble.
Noticed you never responded about your background, I asked, trying to
figure out your meanness. Were you baptized Roman Catholic?
Originally posted by harryhaller
Just because the man of sin hasn't been revealed doesn't mean he hasn't been very busy?
Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
We've talking about this before, and it's still going on. Both newcomers and oldtimers alike are quoting entire long posts and then making a simple reply far too often.
When quoting a post, edit it down to the important pieces necessary to make your point.
If this continues, the quote button may disappear.
Originally posted by St Udio
this thread has been wandering all over the place...
Prophecy, and the forecasts in Revelation are event driven... Events are given as the 'Signs'
dates are not used to pinpoint the start of a prophetic sequence of events...
So, when the 5 items listed coincide in a single event,
one should understand that the 6th Seal and ALL that follows
will be the Tribulation/Great Tribulation & everything sinister about the End-Times we all worry about.
Originally posted by colbe
Originally posted by DeadSeraph
To answer your first point: When my loved ones have asked for prayer (or I have asked them for prayer) it's understood that we are asking each other to pray to God on our behalf, not to pray TO them. We also pray to God DIRECTLY, through Christ.
In regards to your second point, I contend that all of these various forms of prayer are reserved for God alone, as directing prayer of any kind to any human being (dead or living) would be a direct violation of the first commandment.
Oh my gosh, I see your confusion, you are misunderstanding one word, TO. Oh, and understanding "directing." Mary doesn't become God because you ask her to pray for you. How can I best explain it, could another Catholic help maybe a better use of words. I'll try.
"we are asking each other to pray to God on our behalf"
Mary isn't God but a very special human person. Take out two of your words and add Mary's name.
"we are asking Mary to pray to God on our behalf"
There you
have it.
Recall Cana, Mary has influence with her Son. All these years, the evidence, the testimony to prayers directed to Mary for her intercession
are granted, some of them miracles. Keeping in mind every prayer is answered and everything comes from God...it is His Will prayers are answered as they are....
You said the same thing with your reply about types of prayer. My point again, for example, if I ask my brother to pray for me, he doesn't become God. He is an intercessor. If I ask Our Lord's mother to pray to God for me, she doesn't become God, she's an intercessor.
I guess non-Catholic Christians only look to the intercessors down here. Catholics ask loved ones here and the same, family and friends in Heaven, the Saints and Our Lord's mother and well known angels like the Archangel Michael to intercede to God for us. They all can because we are one big family, humanity, the Angels and the Blessed Trinity.
Revelation has verses about the "saints interceding." Important, you
can go to God directly, you can do both.
take care,
colbe
Originally posted by DeadSeraph
Originally posted by colbe
Oh my gosh, I see your confusion, you are misunderstanding one word, TO. Oh, and understanding "directing." Mary doesn't become God because you ask her to pray for you. How can I best explain it, could another Catholic help maybe a better use of words. I'll try.
"we are asking each other to pray to God on our behalf"
Mary isn't God but a very special human person. Take out two of your words and add Mary's name.
"we are asking Mary to pray to God on our behalf"
There you
have it.
Recall Cana, Mary has influence with her Son. All these years, the evidence, the testimony to prayers directed to Mary for her intercession
are granted, some of them miracles. Keeping in mind every prayer is answered and everything comes from God...it is His Will prayers are answered as they are....
You said the same thing with your reply about types of prayer. My point again, for example, if I ask my brother to pray for me, he doesn't become God. He is an intercessor. If I ask Our Lord's mother to pray to God for me, she doesn't become God, she's an intercessor.
I guess non-Catholic Christians only look to the intercessors down here. Catholics ask loved ones here and the same, family and friends in Heaven, the Saints and Our Lord's mother and well known angels like the Archangel Michael to intercede to God for us. They all can because we are one big family, humanity, the Angels and the Blessed Trinity.
Revelation has verses about the "saints interceding." Important, you
can go to God directly, you can do both.
take care,
colbe
As much as I will need your prayers in purgatory, I can assure you I wont need them after. Again, in your first few sentences you have claimed it is A-OK to pray to mary and thus receive prophecy from those who are influenced by "your mother of God".
I'm happy to hear you are so interested in saving my soul. Turns out.... Christ already did that for me. I find it unfortunate however, that we consider each other so confused. But when Constantine is a saint within your religion, what more can I expect?
Jesus is quite clear, as are the prophets of old. No man or woman should pray to anyone but God Almighty. Not to mary, not to paul, not to anyone but Him who weaved the very fabric of space and time and then some.
Men have stepped into raging fires for less, and been delivered.
Originally posted by St Udio
Lastly, in 17:17, we are told that the Deity or the holy ghost or even angels will cause the kings of the world to give their kingdoms to the end-time Beast or anti-christ... '
Originally posted by DISRAELI
1Jn_2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
1Jn_2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1Jn_4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.