Why do the nice guys go after the users?

Look up some of those 'popular' girls, see what they are doing now that they can't trade on their looks so much, if they're not already married, they're most likely trying to re-edit their history in the hope that someone will take them on before it all heads south, because they don't have the skill-set to provide for themselves. On the otherhand, I bet that quiet cute girl is pretty much established in her own right and definately doesn't need some feller to come along and validate her or support her, and therefore can pick and choose from a whole plethora of potential mates. Perhaps, if you had been a real friend to those 'hot' girls who came to you for some support, and told them what guys really thought of her, and why they used her, instead of just thinking you might cop some while her defenses were down, then things might just have taken a different turn.

I think you're reading me wrong here...

I was the shoulder they cried on BECAUSE I was a real friend and I LISTENED to them, and was the type of guy who wouldn't take advantage of their lowered defenses. Most of those gals are actually doing pretty ok these days (and I'd wager they still think I was one of the nicest guys they knew in High School) Facebook is an amazing thing, so we can still kind of see where everyone is and what they are up to. Thing is, gals like that aren't into those kinds of guys when they are in high school, they aren't mature enough to know what they want, just as we aren't at that time either.

As for the cute, but not popular girl, I honestly liked her, and for a while, we were a pretty disgustingly cute couple. If anything, she used me. She had a fiance' (I know, in High School right?), but he was a tool and treated her like crap. However, she just couldn't kick him to the curb, and I got sick of trying to play second fiddle. I was often "the other guy" in these scenarios...

Originally posted by curious7
reply to post by schuyler

 

So dumb down even more than I have before and hide my genius level IQ so as to fit in with the world around me?

You DO realize that is a laughable statement, don't you? As we continue this discussion more and more comes to light. If we were to take your posts at face value (and why not?) we now know not only are you the nicest guy in the world, you're also the smartest. Yet, you still can't score*. For the life of me I do not find anywhere in my previous posts where I suggested you "dumb down" yourself. I simply suggested you need to change some behaviors and gave you very specific reasons why this was necessary.

I guess the only conclusion I can come to is that your perception of yourself and your own abilities is at odds with how other people perceive you. You and your ego are living in a fantasy land and therein lies your issue.

'Tis a pity. Good luck to you, sir!


*Score = find a long-term intimate relationship with a soulmate.

I "dumb down" all the time, so I don't make people feel uncomfortable.
For example, I really watch my vocabulary around my mother, as I don't like to make her feel bad. She simply doesn't have a lot of education, and my vocabulary is typically pretty advanced (I'm an avid reader).

Occasionally I slip, and use a big word, and then she is surprised and thinks I had it on a word of the day calendar or something. I just play along...no harm in it.

Sometimes, exhibiting intelligence can make you come off as arrogant or conceited, so I try to avoid that when I can. People who get to know me think I'm pretty bright, and I don't need a Mensa card to confirm it. (Though the Mensa activity books are pretty fun for stretching your noodle).

Originally posted by Gazrok
I think you're reading me wrong here...

Yes and no, I think you were presenting it a little skewed, but that's okay, now we're really getting to the meat and potatoes of the issue. So all is good.

Originally posted by Gazrok
I was the shoulder they cried on BECAUSE I was a real friend and I LISTENED to them, and was the type of guy who wouldn't take advantage of their lowered defenses. Most of those gals are actually doing pretty ok these days (and I'd wager they still think I was one of the nicest guys they knew in High School) Facebook is an amazing thing, so we can still kind of see where everyone is and what they are up to. Thing is, gals like that aren't into those kinds of guys when they are in high school, they aren't mature enough to know what they want, just as we aren't at that time either.

These girls didn't burn you, quite the opposite, these girls respected and valued your friendship far too much to take that step, that, potentially, would have endangered the friendship. And it wasn't about maturity, it was about knowing that you were a keeper, and they weren't ready for that kind of commitment. I had two such friends myself, and, at that stage in my life they were far, far too good for me, and there was no way on earth I was prepared to lose their friendship for the sake of a few weeks of breathless, if highly enjoyable, fumbling. I could get absolutely hammered and they would make sure I got home safely and unmolested (even if at the time, I thought I wanted to get molested, lol). And better still, I could talk to them, and they me, about anything, while we watched hours of Monty Python, Star Wars and Star Trek. One of the happiest times of my life.

So, I take back what I said about the girls that cried on your shoulder, they were simply at a stage in their life when they were sowing their oats, and while they may have 'used' others, you were clearly not someone that they wanted to use. Far too valuable for that.

Originally posted by Gazrok
As for the cute, but not popular girl, I honestly liked her, and for a while, we were a pretty disgustingly cute couple. If anything, she used me. She had a fiance' (I know, in High School right?), but he was a tool and treated her like crap. However, she just couldn't kick him to the curb, and I got sick of trying to play second fiddle. I was often "the other guy" in these scenarios...

So this was the burn in actual fact.

I once went out with this lad, I think I was 15, and on the second 'date' he took me shopping for engagement rings...haha...suffice to say, there wasn't a third date. There was also an issue with the way he kissed, but I shan't go into that...ewww. Some things don't change, and boys and girls often do things because they think it is what is expected of them, and they get hormones and emotions, lust and love confused. But you know, you live and you learn. Hopefully

She's one of the examples, yes. (but some of that is on me, I just left as I didn't want to deal with that drama) And there were others when I was young, that were similar stories, them with a bad guy, me coming along as the good guy, then getting kicked to the curb for the same abuse they got before, etc.

These girls didn't burn you, quite the opposite,

No, these gals (the hot ones crying on the shoulder) didn't burn me, I knew they were out of my league... (though, if I knew then, what I know now, they wouldn't have been) But, since I didn't think I had a shot anyhow, it made me able to see them as friends. I think I helped quite a few of them understand a few things. Most of them were actually very sweet girls.

It all made me stronger though...and I'm no saint, I burned a few myself also, that looking back, I just feel awful about. We all make mistakes, it's just important we learn from them.

Originally posted by Gazrok
No, these gals (the hot ones crying on the shoulder) didn't burn me, I knew they were out of my league...

(though, if I knew then, what I know now, they wouldn't have been) But, since I didn't think I had a shot anyhow, it made me able to see them as friends. I think I helped quite a few of them understand a few things. Most of them were actually very sweet girls.

Well it is generally the 'very sweet girls' that get played. And, had you become a player yourself, you wouldn't be the guy you are now. I bet when you look in the mirror, you can look yourself in the eye and like what you see. That is a hell of a lot more than those guys and gals can say by the time they reach our age.

That is the distinction you see, the players aren't actually 'bad' they are just acting that way to get the girls. Playing tricks and mind games. The real bad boys, or as I used to call them 'naughty boys' are a whole different kettle of fish altogether, and generally pussy-cats, when they treat girls mean, it is because those girls deserve it (and I don't mean 'mean' in an abusive way). And some of those boys, aren't all that mean at all, just tough because they have to be, diamonds in the rough alot of them, and because of that they are no less immune to being played themselves. I was often the 'nice' girl who's shoulder they cried on when they got taken for every penny they had and promptly dumped, or led into trouble that they didn't need. I still run into one or two of them from time to time, and they still treat me with absolute respect like the lady I never was.

The players, in my experience, unlike the naughty boys, are from good homes and generally are used to getting exactly what they want. Spoilt brats, even when they have long since grown up. They want others to be like them because it justifies the level that they stoop to. Which is another thing, being popular, in my experience, has always required that I be something that I am not, and being told to give up good friends for superficial ones. Life can be made lonely for those that buck the system, which is why my two nice guy friends were worth their weight in gold, as were all the naughty boys who I took under my wing and who didn't allow anyone to bad mouth me.

Originally posted by LilDudeissocool
Now are there women who want an intelligent guy who might be less than wealthy so they will have a greater chance of having intelligent kids, and a partner who they can converse with without becoming bored in conversation? NOPE!

You just described me, so I know exactly how wrong you are.

I turned down two very wealthy men because we didn't have the same values. Though I suspect that if I'd continued hanging around the one he might have started to change his mind on the one very important point because he's the one who brought it up with me and actually became more interested in me after I made it clear that I didn't find such a point to be negotiable.

But if that is the sort of woman you want, I support you in your quest. Enjoy.

Originally posted by adigregorio

Originally posted by curious7
You completely missed the point and prove you've never experienced what you quoted like I have throughout life.

This is un-true, due to my "interesting" lifestyle choices. My attractiveness level is quite low.

Yer as cute as a bag of stuffed bunnies. I don't believe you.

reply to post by Aeons

"I don't know what you're talking about, but I like it!"
-Mary Lane

Thank you! And I hope you do not mind me using this wonderful compliment to further the discussion.

As Aeons graciously pointed out, she finds me "cute as a bag of bunnies". Other gals have also found me attractive, in the looks department. Which brings us to the topic of nice guys, and gals again. If Aeons did not find me bunnyish, and I was attempting to court her...well...she would not want anything to do with me (lovey dovey wise). Same with the gals (or guy in this case), for whatever reason they do not find the would-be dater attractive.

This does not make them anything but themselves either. Am I shallow for not wanting to date gals that are "too young"? What about "too old"? I mean, if a 90 year old lady came up to me and was all "Hey, you make me hot on the inside!" I would not be attracted, in fact I may gain a few years myself!

With all that, why is "looks" any different? Furthermore, why would you want to date someone that is so fixated on the glamor? Seems to me their priorties may be a little skewed, if you are that interested visit the prospect of a "something more" relationship in a few years, maybe their chooser will have changed...

Otherwise, count your losses and move on. For if you do not, the losses just keep on a stackin'

Thank you again Aeons, I love a good compliment!

reply to post by adigregorio


There is nothing wrong with going for looks.

Is it your primary stipulation? There is a great range between "baby got back" and 90 year old granny on 20 year old guy action.

I have to admit, looks make up for having to listen to some people but only for short duration.

reply to post by Aeons


Of course, nothing wrong at all with looks hunting. I was saying that if they are only going for looks (as implied by not wanting to date the "nice guy" and only going for "jerks" (aka hunks))

If a girl/guy is not using their picker to its full potential, then maybe their picker is not the only thing faulty. OR maybe the seeker is not as nice as they first thought? (More often than not, ends up being unattractive to the potential date.)

Like all things, relationships take time. Many of us (guys) will never get a gal, just due to the numbers. More guys than gals on the planet, or does China not have a rule about that anymore? I know in my "lifestyle" the ratio of guys to gals is almost 8 to 1. In markets such as these, you must make sure your "goods" are well worth it, espcially when there will be other males that have a stink gland that is fierce.

Caw?

PS: It will not always be about looks, these will be the people that relationships will be most prosperous with. These people are also hard to find For folks are far too worried about being "shallow", they hide behind monikers such as "nice guy" and "BBW" (Notice skinny gals are never beautiful in their lables?) Pick them pretty gals/guys, and move on if they say no.

It sounds like someone in this thread was watching that MTV show taking notes and on the edge of their seat, about some douches thinking they are alphas trying to teach so called betas, to bed down women, and a follower of some losers blog that is in self denial that he doesn't actually mentally abuse and use women to get some ho hum sex. There is no secret and no magic tricks it's shallow nonsense based on animal drives. You don't have to drive a Benz and have a Cro-Magnon brow, ready to fight off other potential suitors in droves, people that think they do are insecure paranoid control freaks.

What you need is to be comfortable with yourself in who you are, you don't have to change or try to be someone you're not, what you need is self respect and really like who you are. Self confidence doesn't come from some approval out there somewhere or from someone, thinking it does is a coping mechanism left over from learning right and wrong behavior as a toddler(such as don't jump on grandmas couch, and you're good boy and get approval or affection) This teaches us to find approval from others for our deeds and actions.

Once you have learned to not jump on grandmas couch and other rules to not get arrested or locked in a mental institution; it's time to drop that left over coping mechanism and just be who you are...it's called self acceptance and once you have self acceptance; confidence naturally follows. When you're comfortable in your own skin, and being, others take notice, more notice than a Bently or any cock waiving with other males could ever bring.

Dropping those useless left over coping skills you have and find out through introspection are the best thing you can do for yourself and others. Know that you need to be always honest with women, state your intentions with them, although it's best not to have any intentions at all and just be yourself and enjoy their company. Spend time getting to know them why rush? If you like them as a friend tell them, if they ignite the beast in you, but you're not where you want to be in life tell them.

Women are sexual beings too and will appreciate your honesty way more than, acting like every other douche idiot out there that hides all of their insecurities and control issues, under a facade to be uncovered later...if your armor has a chink of deceit in it women will find it, and not appreciate it they will see you are really just an insecure child, trying to sow oats that lives in some self-delusional reality. Drop the facade nonsense and mating "tricks" from animal behavior studies, and evolve into a self actualized rational human being.

reply to post by adigregorio


All this talk is pointless, there are plenty of females out there that go for other things besides looks, unfortunately a high majority of the other things is money, but still there are other things to even those other things. And whatever your "lifestyle" is, one thing is certain like rule # 51 of the rules of internet says...
"51. No matter what it is, it is somebody's fetish. No exceptions"

So dude unfortunately, the internet imitates life even in this there are No exceptions! Which leads one to believe that there probably is somebody, somewhere, out there, that would probably in some likelihood, and I say'd probably since were not dealing in absolutes here, that's something only females and the Sith deal in. But us males only have meh maybe, or could be's.

But ya it's not unlikely that it does not exist, and I don't think the ratio of guys to girls is a high as you make it out to be. Why just today I saw about 7 of them and I wasn't even looking, they were just walking around doing things, I even opened a door for one, but only because I had to throw something in the garbage, and it was on the other side of the door and she was in the way while I was backing up.

So what I am saying is. There females everywhere, I never noticed this but no really there freaking everywhere! Even on ATS the place as of a year or so ago has been invaded by them, which at the least has to says that the ratio cant be as off as you think, its mathematically impossible. But don't quote me on that because math sucks...

Besides I don't think your missing anything all that much. If you listen to a lot of the relationship section on ATS or anywhere else, you will see that it ain't all that it's cracked up to be, in fact it mostly sucks.

Like people say if it happens...It happens. But you would have to be crazy to go out of your way looking for it....So I guess that makes us all crazy, after all why the hell would anybody even be on this part of the site if there was not some sort of gravitating towards this subject involved. The whole thing is not logical.

reply to post by galadofwarthethird


My ratio for guys to gals (excluding the 8 to 1 ratio limited to me) comes from the fact that China looks for guys over gals when births are happening. Also, seeing a girl on the streets does NOT meen she is single

All this talk is pointless, there are plenty of females out there that go for other things besides looks

This is 100% un-true. I know people only go after what they find attractive, and looks is a BIG part of that.

Now, can money cause the looks to not matter. Sure, but then they still have "picker issues" since they are dating the money, instead of the person. Which brings me back to "Why would you want to date someone like this" (You being a "nice guy" or "nice girl". Not you specifically.)

So what I am saying is. There females everywhere...

But a "nice guy" or "nice girl" does not want females/males. They want one female/male, one that is not attracted to them for some reason. (Most likely looks) Unlike you, or me, there is no "moving on". Instead it is time to complain how girls (or guys) always date the bad versions. Faulty argument, correlation does not equal causation. If you could even consider this correlation...

Besides I don't think your missing anything all that much...

Heh, if I was looking for something then I wouldn't be missing anything. I only popped in here to offer some realisim, I have no desire to find a mate at this time. (If at any time, relationships are a pain in the anus)

However, let's assume I was looking for something. These sentences, like "It will happen when it is time." OR "It will happen when you stop looking" OR "You're not missing that much." These sentences are real pretty, but they are far from the truth. And we ALL know this, we also ALL know that saying these makes us feel better for having a relationship when the complainer does not. We have relationships because we are READY for them. We are mature in our dealings with ourselves, mature enough to deal well with others.

It has nothing to do with being nice, it has to do with who you are. If the girls are not attracted to that, then you are SooL. If you are unwilling to better yourself so that you can recieve a relationship, then you WILL be alone. But remember, it has nothing to do with "bad vs nice" it has to do with "attractive vs unattractive".

It's not that ''nice guys'' are attracted to users, it's just that some unscrupulous women are only too willing to exploit them and lead them up the garden path.

All men are attracted to good looking women, and good looking women, due to their desirability, are far more likely to have the ability and opportunity to wrap a man around their finger.

Just as women aren't inherently attracted to people who beat them up or cheat on them, but seeing as the most desirable men are more likely to behave in this manner, then women will often end up in abusive relationships.

''Nice guys'' are usually naive, gullible, wet behind the ears and suffer from ''perfect world syndrome''. I used to be one during my teenage years and right up until my early twenties.

Looking back, it's amazing how many girls led me on and feigned ''possible'' interest in me to reap some personal benefits, without any kind of consideration for me, or any subsequent contrition for their behaviour.

Now, I don't want to sound like a complete cock, but I'm generally considered to be quite good looking, and - as far as I know - I don't have a BO problem, so it's not unreasonable to expect that some ''nice'' girls are genuinely interested me. However, due to the fact that my natural, unmanufactured persona is shy and sensitive, I had very little ''action'' whatsoever in my teenage years ! Shyness and unregulated sensitivity are complete turn-offs to women.

One of the problems that boys have is that we are brought up with the flagrant untruths surrounding what a woman wants in a man. We are led to believe that women are genuinely attracted to us if we possess generally accepted good qualities. To compound this, we are constantly fed this myth that women are somehow ''mysterious'' and impossible to understand. This, of course, is nonsense.

Once you actually carefully study how humans behave, then you can read women like a book. There's nothing ''mystifying'' about their behaviour, because they are striving for exactly the same thing as men are. The fact that - due to the male/female sexual dynamic - the goals may be attained in different manners, is largely irrelevant.

Women are attracted to the ''bad boy'' traits which are pretty much anathema to currently accepted standards of civility and sociality. It's not the fault of women; it's just nature. Just as a man who ignores a ''plain Jane'' in favour of a beautiful woman - regardless of the less superficial pros and cons of the two women in question - is not to blame for who he is inherently attracted to.

Something which is extremely important to remember in this nice guy/bad boy dichotomy is that women aren't turned-on by bad boys because they are ''bad'' or turned-off by nice guys because they are ''nice''. It's the traits within these two broad personality categories which define the attractiveness or unattractiveness of the man. Ergo, it's perfectly possible to be an ethical ''bad boy''.

So, ''nice guys'' are left with a choice: either carry on as you are and achieve little success with women or cultivate traits and behaviour which may not come naturally to you but will ensure, at the very least, reasonable success with women. I opted for the latter.

I guess my case is slightly different, or maybe not...

But I consider myself to be a nice guy, the problem is, I thought I had found a nice girl when in fact she was just a user in disguise, at the time when I met her though she tricked me into thinking she was nice. I pampered her, took her out, bought her gifts.

Now, you're all probably going to say it's my fault and I should've seen it coming but she was good, very good at what she did... laughed at my jokes, looked after me, took care of me, conversed with me for hours, took an interest in all my hobbies etc etc....

But once my money was invested in other things and she realised she wasn't getting any of it readily all that changed.

I didn't go after a user, she went after me and I fell for it and now as much as I hate doing it, I see all women with the same eyes.

Originally posted by Mister_Bit
I didn't go after a user, she went after me and I fell for it and now as much as I hate doing it, I see all women with the same eyes.

And that is where they win, learn from the mistake, and realise that if someone likes you, for you, they don't need to be 'kept sweet', they will just be naturally sweet when you're around. The best advice I can give you is to see women as friends, cultivate them as friends, they will then introduce you to their other friends, and so on and so forth. That way you get to have those women that you are attracted to pre-screened and vetted for your benefit. If you are a genuinely 'nice' person, those friends will want what is best for you. Simple as that. And women love match-making, so it is win/win.

reply to post by adigregorio

My ratio for guys to gals (excluding the 8 to 1 ratio limited to me) comes from the fact that China looks for guys over gals when births are happening. Also, seeing a girl on the streets does NOT meen she is single

Good point anyways its like a 99.9% chance they are not single. But anyways, I don't get the whole china reference, unless you live in china.

This is 100% un-true. I know people only go after what they find attractive, and looks is a BIG part of that.

Not so sure about that, I seen more then plenty really hot chicks with really not that good looking dudes. I don't think it plays as much of a part as it does from the other side of the fence. Now if you were a female, and your did not have the looks, then I think you would have more problems then if you were a dude and did not have the looks. And I know this, because like I said I am a dude so I know how much some things can turn our heads. Biology.

Now, can money cause the looks to not matter. Sure, but then they still have "picker issues" since they are dating the money, instead of the person. Which brings me back to "Why would you want to date someone like this" (You being a "nice guy" or "nice girl". Not you specifically.)

People go for what they want or like no matter the games or ways and round about ways they go about it, money, looks, this, that, whatever, men go for what they want and can get, and so do women. So if there saying one thing and go for another...Well then my friend, there lying. End of story.

But a "nice guy" or "nice girl" does not want females/males. They want one female/male, one that is not attracted to them for some reason. (Most likely looks) Unlike you, or me, there is no "moving on". Instead it is time to complain how girls (or guys) always date the bad versions. Faulty argument, correlation does not equal causation. If you could even consider this correlation.

I know this one dude. Hes a cool guy, not that good looking, not in the money, pretty average dude. Yet he gets lots of girls, like every other month he seems to get a new girl. The dude is always on facebook even on his smartphone he is always talking to them. I think he has like 3 girlfriends right now. And one even has a kid with him, and she really is pretty good looking since he showed me a picture.

You could say he is a player, now do you think any of those ladies do not really know what is going on...Sure they will say oh my godz never knew...But a blind man in the dark could see what is going on with him and them, so yes they know...And they like it...And in time they will move on when they want to and can, and probably to some nice guy, and so will he....Like I said bro, its all just a game, and that dude has game.

My advice to you or any other dude that wants to attract the fairer sex and based on what I seen, empirical evidence I suppose you can call it. If you want chicks to be attracted then you got's to be bad, bold, and audacious, and if you dont want to attract the ladies you just have to be shy, quite, definitely not confident and audacious, and worst of all would be if your afflicted with the nice guy or good guy disease.

But if your really a nice guy, then this would not even be a question, because nice guys don't like all women, just some women.....Dont make the minions, make some rule for that shi t to, because there are no exemptions.

Heh, if I was looking for something then I wouldn't be missing anything. I only popped in here to offer some realisim, I have no desire to find a mate at this time. (If at any time, relationships are a pain in the anus)

Ya that's the spirit, forget womenz..Go play some video-games or something, much more relaxing and headache free, then this whole relationship thing.

However, let's assume I was looking for something. These sentences, like "It will happen when it is time." OR "It will happen when you stop looking" OR "You're not missing that much." These sentences are real pretty, but they are far from the truth

I don't know there seems to be something to it.

We have relationships because we are READY for them. We are mature in our dealings with ourselves, mature enough to deal well with others.

Ditto.

It has nothing to do with being nice, it has to do with who you are. If the girls are not attracted to that, then you are SooL. If you are unwilling to better yourself so that you can recieve a relationship, then you WILL be alone. But remember, it has nothing to do with "bad vs nice" it has to do with "attractive vs unattractive".

Like I said, your right! Its all just a matter of what people or individuals define as attractive. You would be surprised all the idiosyncrasies out there, and what kind of stuff people are into.

Originally posted by Sherlock Holmes
It's not that ''nice guys'' are attracted to users, it's just that some unscrupulous women are only too willing to exploit them and lead them up the garden path.

All men are attracted to good looking women, and good looking women, due to their desirability, are far more likely to have the ability and opportunity to wrap a man around their finger.

Just as women aren't inherently attracted to people who beat them up or cheat on them, but seeing as the most desirable men are more likely to behave in this manner, then women will often end up in abusive relationships.

''Nice guys'' are usually naive, gullible, wet behind the ears and suffer from ''perfect world syndrome''. I used to be one during my teenage years and right up until my early twenties.

Looking back, it's amazing how many girls led me on and feigned ''possible'' interest in me to reap some personal benefits, without any kind of consideration for me, or any subsequent contrition for their behaviour.

Now, I don't want to sound like a complete cock, but I'm generally considered to be quite good looking, and - as far as I know - I don't have a BO problem, so it's not unreasonable to expect that some ''nice'' girls are genuinely interested me. However, due to the fact that my natural, unmanufactured persona is shy and sensitive, I had very little ''action'' whatsoever in my teenage years ! Shyness and unregulated sensitivity are complete turn-offs to women.

One of the problems that boys have is that we are brought up with the flagrant untruths surrounding what a woman wants in a man. We are led to believe that women are genuinely attracted to us if we possess generally accepted good qualities. To compound this, we are constantly fed this myth that women are somehow ''mysterious'' and impossible to understand. This, of course, is nonsense.

Once you actually carefully study how humans behave, then you can read women like a book. There's nothing ''mystifying'' about their behaviour, because they are striving for exactly the same thing as men are. The fact that - due to the male/female sexual dynamic - the goals may be attained in different manners, is largely irrelevant.

Women are attracted to the ''bad boy'' traits which are pretty much anathema to currently accepted standards of civility and sociality. It's not the fault of women; it's just nature. Just as a man who ignores a ''plain Jane'' in favour of a beautiful woman - regardless of the less superficial pros and cons of the two women in question - is not to blame for who he is inherently attracted to.

Something which is extremely important to remember in this nice guy/bad boy dichotomy is that women aren't turned-on by bad boys because they are ''bad'' or turned-off by nice guys because they are ''nice''. It's the traits within these two broad personality categories which define the attractiveness or unattractiveness of the man. Ergo, it's perfectly possible to be an ethical ''bad boy''.

So, ''nice guys'' are left with a choice: either carry on as you are and achieve little success with women or cultivate traits and behaviour which may not come naturally to you but will ensure, at the very least, reasonable success with women. I opted for the latter.

Not all women are like that. We outgrow the "bad boy" thing, too. As you get older you want someone who's going to take a relationship seriously and who's going to want you for you.

That probably doesn't make you feel any better, I'm sure, but please don't assume all women are like that. We're not.

reply to post by calstorm


Ha ha, you are right about this. I think it is because men aren't too smart sometimes. My problem, when I was still interested in dating, was that I had been rejected and hurt so many times over and OVER again by girls... ugh.

These days, I quit dating but I have learned to appreciate what really makes a girl strong and amazing. I think guys just don't think like girls, really, so they don't understand when they are being manipulated and don't understand when someone is worth their time, really.

Although I don't date anymore, I spend my time trying to support and help females through hard times... I want them to be strong, recognize their full potential, and to help them realize how amazing they are...

I know a lot about the struggles girls face and how they think because of a few reasons - when I first started college, I was a clueless guy who ended up offending pretty much all the girls on campus on accident. Because of this, I vowed to hang out with girls until I understood them.

In addition to this, one of my best female friends was anorexic and this is truly a terrible disorder that is both mental and physical. We would have deep conversations and, trust me, it is the dark side that all females face on a fairly regular basis. I had to think really hard to figure out ways to talk her out of the negativity she was facing, but that means that I recognize and understand a lot of thought patterns that girls face and can help them through them. What makes me sad is that she never recovered.

In addition, my best friend and band-mate is gay. While I was in college, he was very patient with me and taught me many things about being tactful and sensitive. Naturally, he also had hard emotional times, and we were very close, so I learned a lot from that.

I'm sorry I veered off topic. But I want to say that you are doing things right. Don't change who you are because nice guys don't like you. I used to be frustrated because girls didn't like me even though I'm a nice guy -- I still get frustrated by that sometimes.

If you want some advice (ha ha I should probably get to this eventually) I would recommend first off making sure that you have a solid idea of what a nice guy is, and then there are two suggestions that should work in this case: find something in common with him / be willing to share his hobbies, and secondly, make the approach yourself. Ask him out. There is no need to hold yourself back. Choose your partner. It works.

I hope that helps. If you need anything else, let me know.