Space Colonization, Questioning the Endeavor

Not to rain on your thread, but if we don't start moving out and colonizing OUR OWN solar system we probably won't even make it to 2075 or beyond. Also I really grow tired of all the people thinking we need another earth to colonize ,the fact is we just need to use our earth and the entire solar system efficiently.

Colonization would actually be relatively easy if humanity made it the main goal of the economy, instead of the useless consumer based economy we have now, and actually put the full productive force and the mind power and brain power of the masses into it. The only reason colonization of our solar system is unfeasible is simply a lack of drive and effort. The fact is, if you tried to build a skyscraper only using two people, it would probably take a century,just like trying to explore and colonize space with 18 billion dollars and a hand full of astronauts will probably take us a millennium.

The thing is, we went to the moon in the sixties and today the average cell phone has more processing power then all of mission control back then, but the idiot masses somehow think we don't have the technology to begin the effort of full scale colonization. It's kind of sad, because really if we keep sitting on this planet the population will increase, resources will decrease and things will get very bad in the very near future. In fact we keep burning through our resources the way we do now and when, we finally collectively pull our head out of our posteriors, we may not have the resources left to even attempt the effort of moving our civilization into space and if that happens there won't be anything left but to go extinct.

If instead of waiting for the earth to get so bad we are forced to leave like idiots, we instead began tomorrow to lay the foundations of colonization it could easily be done, we have most of the tech; the rest we can develop, we have the muscle power and the brain power; hell we have over 7 billion people on the planet...not all working age of course, but a good number of them are; we have every thing we need to do it. The only thing we lack is the common sense and will to do so. And also the leadership, because lets face the truth, the idiot masses are loathe to do anything unless they are told to or forced to by circumstances.

In any case, the fact is if the masses actually put their effort into it, it would be easy. First, you build a series of spaces stations, that would serve as factories and shipyards. Second, you build some massive ships; it's much easier when you don't build them on the planet. Then you supply and man those ships and fill them with prefabbed colony pieces and you go to the moon. You build up on the moon, refit and resupply the ships and do the same to mars. After that you expand the cities and start moving people and infrastructure off of the planet. And finally with less urban and suburban sprawl, highways and etc, you have more land to grow food on and even turn back over to nature, allowing the planet to be a thriving jewel of life again, while still serving as the breadbasket of the colonies.

Will it take great effort? Of course. Can it be done? I bet my life on it. The human race if anything are some of the finest builders and engineers around. WE SENT MEN TO THE MOON WHEN IT WAS SAID IT COULD NOT BE DONE. WE CAN GO TO SPACE IF WE JUST WANTED IT ENOUGH.

The sad fact is the only thing holding us back is division, greed, oppression, and our own short sighted stupidity. And if we can't over come that and fast, then yes all of humanity; man, woman and child, deserve to choke on dust and become the future fossils of the late great planet earth.

reply to post by prisoneronashipoffools


You're not raining on my thread at all, that's precisely the type of response I'm looking for! The point of this all is to discuss this topic because I really believe it's important. My example was very limited in scope, people seem to have a better time accepting colonization if it involves a planet. But you're quite right, the possibility exists to colonize areas in our own system. It would be a technological challenge to create a self sustaining colony, but with a unified effort it'd be reasonably possible.

I'm glad you mentioned the consumer society, it's a real problem for me to accept what we have now. We're completely based on consumerism. Just the word "consumer" should send a chill down everyone's spine. We're simply going to consume everything our planet has to offer; like a swarm of locusts on a field, we're slowly working it to death.

I like your style, and I'm glad you stopped by to discuss this as it's an intriguing topic to think about. Discussing the future in the light of a space faring species is something special, but we really have to work on what we have here now, and that's my bigger goal in all of this.

The biggest obstacles to space colonization are neither logistical nor economic; they're mental. The truth is people would much rather spend trillions here blowing one another up in arcane battles over who was right on points of theology which are thousands of years old.

Imagine for a moment if you took the combined military expenditure of the world, or even half that, and invested it into space exploration or development. You would quickly discover new technologies, weeding out what is feasible from what is not, and have the chance of realistically developing the ability to either colonize the solar system or beyond, depending upon which would be more economically sound, in the matter of decades not centuries.

I might sound bitter saying this, but given that America has such a proud heritage in space, it's sad we'll spend billions searching for bogeymen in caves, but can only muster up scraps for searching beyond the confines of this world. I actually think most people would agree with me, but you can thank the media and education system for keeping the focus upon fear all the time.

Because of this, I do think space colonization when it happens might be a private entity or some sort of public foundation. How Cameron chose to portray it in Avatar, as a corporation who became more powerful than states, is very believable to me. Given the difficulties we face, I'd think the best place to start imagining this endeavor is what organization is best suited to make these choices.

Well I commend you for the effort. One of the reasons I am so pessimistic about the subject though, is because on my old ATS account; which I no longer use or is active, I authored several threads on the same subject of colonization and though initially it garnered some interest, that interest waned fast on these forums. I wish you better luck with your thread.

As, far as the aspect of using the colonization effort as a basis for economy, I think it is very important in that it could actually simultaneously save or current failing global economy and also serve as a bridge to a future space based economy.

Of course one of the rebuttals to colonization which I am sure you will probably receive, is many people will say it costs to much money, most of those people don't actually understand that the colonization effort itself could be used to fuel the global economy.

If you look at many ancient civilizations and kingdoms, the government actually coined the money and then used it to build what was needed for the civilization; the roman civilization of course built roads, aqueducts, coliseums etc and even the European monarchies built walls and forts.And with amount of effort that would be needed to move our civilization into space, it could easily employ the majority of people on the planet and in turn drive the consumer based economy, because all of those workers will still need, clothing, food, shelter and etc. And since colonization will take a fair amount of time as well, it could easily drive the global economy for the foreseeable future.

But, also looking around at the current state of the people and their general lack of interest in the idea and the fact that the governments are only offering meaningless gestures as far as colonization goes, it is rather disheartening and makes me not have great hope for the human race.

Anyway. Good luck with your thread and godspeed.

reply to post by prisoneronashipoffools


Thanks for stopping by and contributing, I always enjoy intellectual exchange.

While I'm posting, I'd like to address the spending money on space issue. I'm not sure what people are thinking about when they say it's a waste. The money never leaves earth... It's not like we're stopping at a mars express stop or something and buying a martian burger. I almost think people aren't willing to spend money on the future of our species because they want to see tangible return, most likely in the form of a check in the mail to go buy more cheep products.

With a society like that, it makes me wonder if it's worth the effort. Do we really want to have a species traveling the stars motivated by selfish desires?

reply to post by Mapkar


We humans are very materialistic. If any thing did happen, and living else where did work. I think we should leave anything and everything behind.

This will help people rekindle with nature once more. I believe the make and reliance on products is what makes us how we are. The pollution, the disregard, the de-sociality.

If some one is going by the means of taking what they have with them, then what have we changed? How we are now, will be exactly how we will be later.

In our history, colonies set up in North America and else where in the world, were normally financed. Sometimes by individuals that had money, other times by banks or governments of the countries.

The goals of many were very diverse: Money making opertunities, land ownership, strategic placements, plundering of both resources and whatever the natives had....

The list goes on and on. Not too many will you read, were set up to so that human beings could learn, or expand. It was more about National Expansion, and wealth.

Several colonies failed too. Roanoke being one of the more famous of these, and were good examples of how NOT to setup up a colony. heheh.

Unfortunately, our economy around the world is still set up the same way basically: payment expected for materials and services rendered.
Any private companies that want to set up a colony in space, whether it's a space station in orbit, or a actual colony on the moon or Mars, will not be doing it for the benefit of humankind, but for profit. That is what businesses do. Make profits.
Governments are pretty much the same (in attitude at least) as they were back then. A government setting up a colony would do so only because:
They are interested in territorial expansion.
Strategic Control
Resources to be gathered from that colony to be brought back to that government's coffers. (think Inca Gold, Indian Tea, you get the picture).

So where does that leave us? With companies not interested due to the very high start up cost (not to mention there is no Supply and Demand really there yet), and no quick return on profits.
With governments not interested. Why send manned stations, that you have to refuel with fuel, water and air, when a strategic unmanned satellite will do?

Basically, the only way that we'll get out there again and also in a colony way, is for either our economic system to change, or for the government to change.
It could even be a National Pride thing all over again like it was for the moon race back in the 60's. If China and/or Russia get manned missions back on the moon again, it might spur the US government on (or not...hard to tell these days).

Basically, the only way that we'll get out there again and also in a colony way, is for either our economic system to change, or for the government to change. It could even be a National Pride thing all over again like it was for the moon race back in the 60's. If China and/or Russia get manned missions back on the moon again, it might spur the US government on (or not...hard to tell these days).

reply to post by eriktheawful


Well I agree to a degree, our economy would have to change but, the truth is it has to change anyway, it's not sustainable and though, the federal reserve, banks and the governments are doing what they can to keep it stable, even if they keep it propped up for years,it will eventually collapse. We have not even begun to see the full brunt of the falling economic dominoes yet but it is coming. So, why not replace it with an economy based on colonization?

Since you mentioned the space program from the 60s, I will say unfortunately it wasn't started because of national pride, but was in fact a giant joke played on the American and Russian people. Why do I say it's a joke? Well, the sad fact is it had very little to do with going to space and the moon for the people and had more to do with the US and Russia testing the systems and technology needed for ICBMs and satellite systems.

After world war 2 both countries divided the nazi rocket scientists and then launched the fictitious space race, to test those systems. It was why after we went to the moon the russians scraped the rest of their missions and didn't even bother, and why immediately after we went to the moon, we never went back and began to slash NASA's budget repeatedly. You see after getting to space, both countries already had the data and field testing of the rocket systems needed for ICBMs and once the DOD had their toys they were done with NASA.

The interesting thing is if you go and look at the xplanes project you will find a very interesting and now declassified plane; the x-15 north American, it was basically a combination jet/rocket craft.

source

quote The North American X-15 rocket-powered aircraft/spaceplane was part of the X-series of experimental aircraft, initiated with the Bell X-1, that were made for the USAAF/USAF, NACA/NASA, and the USN. The X-15 set speed and altitude records in the early 1960s, reaching the edge of outer space and returning with valuable data used in aircraft and spacecraft design. As of 2012, it holds the official world record for the fastest speed ever reached by a manned rocket-powered aircraft.[1] During the X-15 program, 13 different flights by eight pilots met the USAF spaceflight criteria by exceeding the altitude of 50 miles (80 km) thus qualifying the pilots for astronaut status. The USAF pilots qualified for USAF astronaut wings, while the civilian pilots were awarded NASA astronaut wings in 2005, 35 years after the last X-15 flight. quote

As you can see, at the very same time the DOD was getting the American people to foot the bill to test the bulky vertical launch rocket systems; necessary for ICBMs, the DOD was developing and testing the far more efficient horizontal launch system for themselves. And vertical launch takes far more energy then horizontal launch.

The sad thing is you are right the governments have no desire to take us there and the corporations will probably only build a couple of space station/ resorts for rich people, but there is one hope, that something else can change and usher humanity on it's destiny to becoming a space baring civilization, and that is the people can change and the people can demand it. The fact is if the masses yearned as much for space, as the few vocal minorities like myself, they could make it happen and not in centuries but in decades. The sad thing is we have to eventually because, in the end, for the long term ensured survival of our species, it will be space or extinction.

EDIT* Though ICBMs were developed before the space race, the space race was crucial in the development of ICBM boosters and still had great impact on over all development of modern ICBM systems.

source

The most important development in terms of delivery in the 1950s was the introduction of intercontinental ballistic missiles, ICBMs. Missiles had long been regarded the ideal platform for nuclear weapons, and were potentially a more effective delivery system than strategic bombers, which was the primary delivery method at the beginning of the Cold War. On October 4, 1957, the Soviet Union showed the world that they had missiles able to reach any part of the world when they launched the Sputnik satellite into Earth orbit. The United States launched their own satellite on the 31 October 1959. The Space Race showcased technology critical to the delivery of nuclear weapons, the ICBM boosters, while maintaining the appearance of being for science and exploration.