Christianity: What's the 'catch'?

reply to post by mileysubet


We believe in the "farily tale' that God made up while you believe in the "fariy tale" that you make up.

reply to post by mileysubet


He is jealous because you have chosen yourself over him. He is jealous because he loves you and you can only know his love if you choose him. I believe all loving is a more appropriate term.

Originally posted by TerryMcGuire
Why do you automatically assume that the readers are not Christian?
I thought we all were gods children.

Because the question I at was directed at non-Christians, it would not make sense for me to ask a Christian that question. I wasn't assuming everyone was, but it's kinda like those advertisements that come on TV and say, "Are you in need of X or Y?" If you weren't in need of X or Y, you wouldn't pay attention to the commercial.

I thought this was obvious.

by catch do you mean what? A flaw? A reason to not believe? What?

This should also be obvious. Is there something that the Bible says you have to do after you become "saved" (after you accept Christ)? Does it state you have to go to church, give tithes, etc?

We get it. This is what you believe.

Uhh, yea. I was pointing out how simple it is.

but of course this is highly debatable even among Christians who swear to be as Christian as you do. And indeed this debate has been going on for thousands of years and been at the heart of many wars and countless deaths and acts of torture. Is that the kind of thing you call a catch?

I call myself a Christian because I follow the teachings of the Bible. The others who call themselves "Christians" and do not believe in this simple statement made in the Bible are not actually Christians. If they say, "Yes I am a Christian" but do not believe in Jesus' own words, they are not a Christian.

All the wars that have followed for Religion are a prime example of why people shouldn't follow Religion - Jesus himself hated Religion. What's your point..?

So maybe this is the catch you ask for. You offer proof. Then you offer the old tale of the the if on the cross. The the if on the cross story which as proof depends on the bible being proof which depends on belief in the Bible which depends on nothing more than faith.

So your proof depends on faith. Proof which depends on faith is not proof. It is FAITH.
Maybe the catch is that you just don't understand this simple issue and then turn around and offer others guidence towards personal salvation, salvation which the Bible tells us we need.

Maybe the catch is you Christians.

My "belief" is based on concrete evidence. You question the existence of Christ? How many eye witness accounts do you need? one? two?

How about 500 eye witness, WRITTEN accounts of people who saw the resurrected Christ Jesus after he was placed in the tomb? Do you need an explanation of why it is impossible for the story of Jesus to have been fabricated? Do you disregard the writings of 'ancient' documents, by notable scholars, monks, priests, and even kings?

I've got a better idea. Let me ask you a question.. Do you believe that a man named Alexander the Great ever existed?

I am of the opinion that...

Many of us are trying to find our place in the universe..and understand the nature of the universe. Structured religion is, for me at least, the easy answer without thought going into it. Its saying everything is magic and therefore not having to really try to put forward the effort in understanding things.

Some have no issue with this idea...actually, most have no issue with this idea. Some of us however want to actually see the gears and pulleys and not pay much attention to the great Oz.

I see religion as a shortcut to bypass thinking in life...it relieves us of asking the hard questions, and paints a neat picture, no matter how illogical or unbelievable. Who knows..after a million years of studying, exploring, etc etc etc, we may find that indeed one of these rather primitive religions is actually correct...but not until it is proven..until then, it should be challenged on all grounds, scientifically, philosophically, etc. If a deity cannot accept this part of our nature, then said deity is a flawed creator considering it was the one that designed us this way.

As the saying goes, God gave you a brain..now use it.

reply to post by Lionhearte

That's it. The thief was a sinner all his life, all up until they crucified him. He wasn't brought down and baptized, he wasn't told to do this or that, all he did was confess his faith that Jesus was the Son of God, and he is now living in eternal paradise.

So, I ask you again - What's the catch?

The catch is that it rests on faulty logic.

The thief had faith in Jesus...and Jesus "saved" him because he felt the thief was worth saving... perhaps because the thief demonstrated that he was God fearing and was able to recognize the injustice that Jesus was put through.

One of the criminals who hung there hurled insults at him: “Aren’t you the Messiah? Save yourself and us!” But the other criminal rebuked him. “Don’t you fear God,” he said, “since you are under the same sentence? We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve. But this man has done nothing wrong.”

It was not because the thief believed that Jesus was getting killed for everybodys sins, and that believing so would send him to paradise with Jesus.

The basic premise of Christianity is this - We are sinners, God gave us the law, man failed to follow it,
He sent his Son, Jesus Christ, to die on the cross as a living sacrifice (being perfect and committing no sins), to carry the burdens and sins of the world on his shoulders, that whosoever believeth in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

"God gave us the law, man failed to follow it"

Thats a false statement. The bible is full of examples where keeping the law was equated to being righteous. So the rest of your statement about the basis of christianity is based on this false idea that man failed to follow the law given by God.

reply to post by Lionhearte


What does it mean to "believe" in Jesus?

20Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

reply to post by Lionhearte


Jesus message was meant from my point of view to evolve the Jews belief. We are all evolving in our own way and being a sinner is a subjective view by somebody judging you. Jesus just gave you the do not care about the original sin becuase it was always a lie. Sometimes even the Jesus had to lie (or not tell the whole thruth) in a way to remove the foolish beliefs off the people before him. Jesus was perfect for that time and that mission. As also Buddha and Gandi was. I love all seeds of love.

You have to be the Christ not belive in Jesus. Belief and doing the opposite do not give a free pass but just another ride where you are at that stage. Namaste

Originally posted by sacgamer25

Originally posted by ashtonhz8907
I consider myself a Christian but I do not go to church as churches make it seem like there is a catch and are very judgmental.

I feel bad for not going to worship in a church but I believe the church is not what God or Jesus had in mind.

When two or more gather in my name I am there with them.

I go to church all the time, with my kids, my coworkers, anyone who I think will listen. Am I not at church now? The church is not a building, we are the church, spread the good news and you are at church.

edit on 11-2-2012 by sacgamer25 because: (no reason given)

Yes it is not the building that is holy. It is the holy people in it. Namaste

Originally posted by ashtonhz8907

Originally posted by sacgamer25

Originally posted by ashtonhz8907
I consider myself a Christian but I do not go to church as churches make it seem like there is a catch and are very judgmental.

I feel bad for not going to worship in a church but I believe the church is not what God or Jesus had in mind.

When two or more gather in my name I am there with them.

I go to church all the time, with my kids, my coworkers, anyone who I think will listen. Am I not at church now? The church is not a building, we are the church, spread the good news and you are at church.

edit on 11-2-2012 by sacgamer25 because: (no reason given)

Thank you for the comfort. I do practice in my household with family but I find approaching people on the subject to be a tad difficult I only approach the subject when I notice they are fellow believers.

I do not spread the word as often as I should only to people I develop friendships with(I do drop the subject quickly if I see distaste), but as far as visiting an actual church I find the idea repulsive. Maybe I just haven't found one for me.

edit on 2/11/2012 by ashtonhz8907 because: (no reason given)

Or maybe you are so far beyond in understanding that the manipulation of the devine in the church makes you angry. Namaste

Originally posted by mileysubet
reply to post by Lionhearte

 

Why would an all powerful GOD need to feel jealous, that is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard.

God tells us in Christianety and Buddhism and Hinduism to become egoless. The true Christians are not of any religon but are people who uphold devine ideals.

Mahatma Gandhi said:
"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians...."
“Be the change you want to see in the world.”
“The weak can never forgive. Forgiveness is the attribute of the strong.”
“The best way to find yourself is to lose yourself in the service of others.”
“God has no religion”
“Live as if you were to die tomorrow. Learn as if you were to live forever.”
Namaste

Originally posted by Lionhearte

My "belief" is based on concrete evidence. You question the existence of Christ? How many eye witness accounts do you need? one? two?

How about 500 eye witness, WRITTEN accounts of people who saw the resurrected Christ Jesus after he was placed in the tomb? Do you need an explanation of why it is impossible for the story of Jesus to have been fabricated? Do you disregard the writings of 'ancient' documents, by notable scholars, monks, priests, and even kings?

I've got a better idea. Let me ask you a question.. Do you believe that a man named Alexander the Great ever existed?

It was written that there were 500 eye witnesses, but did each one of them in turn write down their own eye witness account? Most of the books of the New Testament aren't even believed to be written by Jesus’ disciples themselves, but by churches that they founded quite often decades if not centuries after the actual event in order to give themselves some kind of legitimacy. Source

All following ‘ancient’ documents, by notable scholars, monks, priests, and even kings has been based on these claims of supposed 'eyewitness' accounts, which in turn makes them flawed. Sounds like a house built upon a foundation of sand, rather than a foundation of rock to me Matthew 7:24-27

Your premise of 'concrete' evidence is flawed at best.

Now I have no doubt that Jesus existed and was a truly inspired man for his time. But there have been many inspired men through the ages. Why should Jesus be any more special than Buddha, or Mohammed or even Ghandi?

Originally posted by SaturnFX
I am of the opinion that...

Many of us are trying to find our place in the universe..and understand the nature of the universe. Structured religion is, for me at least, the easy answer without thought going into it. Its saying everything is magic and therefore not having to really try to put forward the effort in understanding things.

Some have no issue with this idea...actually, most have no issue with this idea. Some of us however want to actually see the gears and pulleys and not pay much attention to the great Oz.

I see religion as a shortcut to bypass thinking in life...it relieves us of asking the hard questions, and paints a neat picture, no matter how illogical or unbelievable. Who knows..after a million years of studying, exploring, etc etc etc, we may find that indeed one of these rather primitive religions is actually correct...but not until it is proven..until then, it should be challenged on all grounds, scientifically, philosophically, etc. If a deity cannot accept this part of our nature, then said deity is a flawed creator considering it was the one that designed us this way.

As the saying goes, God gave you a brain..now use it.

Religon is for the people who the small picture is enough and want to follow. Spirituality is for the poeple who want proof and need a bigger picture, because the small one is clearly flawed. Namaste

reply to post by Lionhearte


Jesus warns about how his servants will get beaten either with few blows or many. The catch is Christ is telling his disciples to take up a cross and follow him--be righteous and holy. Otherwise you will be delivered to purgatory or hell. He tells us not to succumb to worldly temptations.

Originally posted by ashtonhz8907
I consider myself a Christian but I do not go to church as churches make it seem like there is a catch and are very judgmental.

I feel bad for not going to worship in a church but I believe the church is not what God or Jesus had in mind.

If the church is "judgmental", go to a different one. Most likely the "judgmental" church is worshiping religion instead of Jesus. And yes, Jesus (who is God), sure loved and wanted corporate worship, don't neglect that, find a great church that just loves to worship. I've seen based on experience that when the church places very strong emphasis on praise and worship and the Word it's a great place to fellowship with other believers.

I've been in a few dead churches in my life, the last one I found, and am still currently at, was not a denominational church and it's been great. I've grown tremendously since the Lord lead me there.

reply to post by Lionhearte


How come you guys don't go to church? The Holy Bible clearly teaches that going to church is not on a great thing, but also a commandment. How come you ignore these facts? Maybe you guys haven't found a good church yet? I recommend:

Best Doctrinal Churches

Find your state or Country and find you a good church!

reply to post by 547000

The catch is Christ is telling his disciples to take up a cross and follow him--be righteous and holy.

Explain how that happens without the indwelling and daily leading and guidance of the Holy Spirit please.

reply to post by KJV1611

commandment.

Careful now brother, Christ only gave two "commandments". That's why He said His yoke was easy and His burden light. Going to church wasn't one of them.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by 547000

 

The catch is Christ is telling his disciples to take up a cross and follow him--be righteous and holy.

Explain how that happens without the indwelling and daily leading and guidance of the Holy Spirit please.

Explain how disciples can be baptized and have the holy spirit, and prophesy and do great things, and yet be thrown into hell.

The answer is simple. It's up to you how you cooperate with God's grace.

Originally posted by 547000

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by 547000

 

The catch is Christ is telling his disciples to take up a cross and follow him--be righteous and holy.

Explain how that happens without the indwelling and daily leading and guidance of the Holy Spirit please.

Explain how disciples can be baptized and have the holy spirit, and prophesy and do great things, and yet be thrown into hell.

It's impossible. Paul says the presence of the Holy Spirit in a believer's life is the "surety" of his inheritance. And wouldn't that be blasphemy against the Holy Spirit anyways? Jesus said that sin would never be forgiven of men, but it was the only one that would not be forgiven.

Now answer my question, how can a person hope to live a holy and righteous life after Christ without CHRIST'S Holy Spirit indwelling and leading them?


Edit:

The answer is simple. It's up to you how you cooperate with God's grace.

Great answer, I'll take it! The Holy Spirit is given with God's saving grace. Not with His common grace to all mankind. And what did Jesus say? "If you love me you'll obey me." When you're born of the Spirit you love Jesus, you want to be with Him for eternity. And God's goodness through Christ leads men to repentance.

reply to post by Lionhearte


In Christianity...YOU are the catch.

YOU are the big fish they are trolling for.

They want to control your life NOW
in return for a promise of a better LIFE LATER ON - well after this one is used up and gone...

Though I dislike "religion" per se (all of them) I personally love Jesus.
Jesus is the reason for the season and the words in RED can be counted on.