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Christianity: What's the 'catch'?

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posted on Feb, 11 2012 @ 08:55 AM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 



1 If I speak with the tongues of men, and of Angels, and have not charity, I am become a sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.

2 And if I should have prophecy, and should know all mysteries, and all knowledge: and if I should have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.



21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’



If Christ decides who goes in, I believe unbelievers who saught God but didn't hear of Christ can still be saved by listening to their conscience. It's those who have heard of Christ and reject Him who are in trouble.
edit on 11-2-2012 by 547000 because: (no reason given)

edit on 11-2-2012 by 547000 because: (no reason given)




posted on Feb, 11 2012 @ 08:59 AM
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reply to post by Lionhearte
 


When people howl against Christianity they are usually complaining about everything outside the words of Christ.

Essentially I am getting your point though and I have made the same one...
Although the Church needs members and money and people often associate Christianity with the CHURCH...

Jesus is free.



posted on Feb, 11 2012 @ 09:14 AM
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reply to post by 547000
 



21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’



Jesus isn't talking about Christians in this passage.

1. Everyone at that Judgment will be confessing Him as "Lord" on that day.

2. Everyone will know at that day that He is God, so everyone who are saying they did those deeds are saying they did them to "god" whichever one they worshiped.

3. "But he who does the WILL of my Father", what is the "will" of His Father, the one who sent Him?:

"And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day."

Jesus also says that: "All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out."

4. *most importantly* Jesus tells them what? Did He say "I once knew you but now I don't"? No, He says "I NEVER knew you".

Those people "never" at any time were saved, "never" were in a covenant relationship with Him.



edit on 11-2-2012 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 11 2012 @ 09:16 AM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


How can you do wonders in Jesus' name without the Holy Spirit?



posted on Feb, 11 2012 @ 09:20 AM
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Originally posted by 547000
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


How can you do wonders in Jesus' name without the Holy Spirit?


It doesn't say they were done "in Jesus name". It says "Lord" or basically "God". And "in your name" basically means "because of you/for you". Anyone throughout history who has done something for "god" whichever one it was will claim they did good works, that even doesn't mean they did. Jesus never affirms good works were done, just that these people will say they did them. Basically, they will be reading Him their "resume" and thinking they'll get in because they did more good stuff than they guy down the street that beats his wife. They probably have their fingers crossed in line that they'll be ahead of them in the line, that way when they get to Jesus they'll look good compared? Who knows.



edit on 11-2-2012 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 11 2012 @ 09:51 AM
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reply to post by TerryMcGuire
 



So maybe this is the catch you ask for. You offer proof. Then you offer the old tale of the the if on the cross. The the if on the cross story which as proof depends on the bible being proof which depends on belief in the Bible which depends on nothing more than faith.


Dude, even Atheist historians like Ludemann And Bart Ehrman an Agnostic call the crucifixion an "indisputable fact." That's extremely strong evidence in favor of when hostile sources do not deny it whatsoever.



posted on Feb, 11 2012 @ 10:07 AM
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reply to post by Lionhearte
 




This should also be obvious. Is there something that the Bible says you have to do after you become "saved" (after you accept Christ)? Does it state you have to go to church, give tithes, etc?

Isn't the Bible filled with all the things one must do to follow Christ correctly? From what I have read of the Bible, it is.



Uhh, yea. I was pointing out how simple it is.
And I was pointing out that the brand of Christianity you profess to follow is simple, and the guy over there follows a simple version also and the person farther on follows a simple version also, which of course leads to THIS


I call myself a Christian because I follow the teachings of the Bible. The others who call themselves "Christians" and do not believe in this simple statement made in the Bible are not actually Christians. If they say, "Yes I am a Christian" but do not believe in Jesus' own words, they are not a Christian.

And they, point back at you and tell me the same thing. So after all these years of Christian religion, are we to believe that some of you are right and some of you are wrong. No make that all of you are wrong except for the one version which is right? How is one to choose. By choosing the way that is the easiest??? The simplest??? I thought the Bible indicated that it was not that easy. Camel through the eye of the needle kind of thing.

How about 500 eye witness, WRITTEN accounts of people who saw the resurrected Christ Jesus after he was placed in the tomb? Do you need an explanation of why it is impossible for the story of Jesus to have been fabricated? Do you disregard the writings of 'ancient' documents, by notable scholars, monks, priests, and even kings?
And just where are these 500 written accounts........
The Bible? Fine. Might not the Bible be like the internet? A story is written and picked up by someone and rewritten which is then picked up by someone else and rewritten again and again on down the line until every where we look we see this story, so it must be true?

Or not just the Bible but in some of these other parchments which have been found which might refer to some incident which sounds like it might be the same event? Well, that certainly wont work for those who believe that only the Bible contains the words of God.

I've got a better idea. Let me ask you a question.. Do you believe that a man named Alexander the Great ever existed?
Apples and oranges. AG had chroniclers writting about all that he did. Both pro and con. His empire was vast. The monuments everywhere. References to his time come from all over the place, where as all the references to Jesus come from only one. The Bible.
The Bible which we know was rewritten to anchor the Church in Nicaea.



posted on Feb, 11 2012 @ 10:59 AM
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Originally posted by Lionhearte
There's obviously a lot of hatred for Christians on this board, and many people are intolerant to other peoples' religious beliefs, and would more than likely respond with an ad hominem or other immature response, so I'll keep this short.


I don't hate all Christians; just the self-righteous ones who don't do what their God tells them. Most of them are intolerant of others belief, or lack of belief.



What is the CATCH of Christianity?

Not a single one of you can say that there actually IS a catch; because there is none.


Yes, there is a "catch". It's quite simple. I shall explain using your example.


The basic premise of Christianity is this - We are sinners, God gave us the law, man failed to follow it, He sent his Son, Jesus Christ, to die on the cross as a living sacrifice (being perfect and committing no sins), to carry the burdens and sins of the world on his shoulders, that whosoever believeth in him shall not perish but have eternal life.


So we are sinners, and God gave us the Law that is eternal and never changing (Old Testament reference). Man failed to follow this law with Adam and Eve. So God sent himself down to Earth as Jesus Christ to die on the cross as a human sacrifice. This is changing God's eternal Law, that is eternal and can't be changed by the way; through a sacrifice that is illegal according to OT law.

So the "catch" is: believe that God sent himself as a sacrifice to himself so you can live eternally in Heaven. Of course, if you don't you'll go to Hell to be tortured for eternity. That's the "catch"; believe, or burn.



posted on Feb, 11 2012 @ 11:37 AM
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Christianity = living your life in debt to God on the hope when you die that debt will be repaid.



posted on Feb, 11 2012 @ 12:55 PM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by TerryMcGuire
 



So maybe this is the catch you ask for. You offer proof. Then you offer the old tale of the the if on the cross. The the if on the cross story which as proof depends on the bible being proof which depends on belief in the Bible which depends on nothing more than faith.


Dude, even Atheist historians like Ludemann And Bart Ehrman an Agnostic call the crucifixion an "indisputable fact." That's extremely strong evidence in favor of when hostile sources do not deny it whatsoever.


This Ludemann and Ehrman may speak strongly to their belief that there was a crucifixion. If there was a Jesus, which I find no reason to seriously question, and he was executed by the Romans, it would follow that as the Romans hung so many on crosses that Jesus would have ben hung this way also. Fine. But our OP is offering that there were hundreds of witnesses to this empty tomb, that oh so many were witness to the resurrected Jesus. Fable.



posted on Feb, 11 2012 @ 01:07 PM
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reply to post by Lionhearte
 


the catch?

God doesn't write books..

man does..



posted on Feb, 11 2012 @ 01:11 PM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


wow, your funny..

you've fallen for it hook, line, & sinker..



posted on Feb, 11 2012 @ 02:18 PM
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the catch is that in the process of becoming religious(whether it be christian or muslim or anything) you become an idiot, a complacent idiot



posted on Feb, 11 2012 @ 02:59 PM
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reply to post by Lionhearte
 





You do not believe Jesus is the Son of God, nor God himself.. may I ask why?


Many reasons , Jesus never said he was god . Only interpertations of verses like John which are taken out of context.

I do not believe god needs a son , why not daughter , uncle , or aunt ? Seems pretty selfish that god choses a boy as his "son" and divine touch no?

Many verses in the bible show jesus god are seperate things , but christians put them together based of man made ideologies of trinity.


lastly i don't believe god would send his son on a suicide mission .
edit on 11-2-2012 by seedofchucky because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 11 2012 @ 03:46 PM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 



Careful now brother, Christ only gave two "commandments". That's why He said His yoke was easy and His burden light. Going to church wasn't one of them.

Ahh, but Paul tells us to go to church in Hebrews 10:25, and Christ set the example for us on multiple occasions by meeting on Sunday morning. He even rose from the grave on a Sunday morning, and the early church always meets on a.....you guessed it, Sunday morning



posted on Feb, 11 2012 @ 03:48 PM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 



Those people "never" at any time were saved, "never" were in a covenant relationship with Him.

Good job with this reply, not just the above line, but all your post.



posted on Feb, 11 2012 @ 04:00 PM
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Originally posted by KJV1611
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 



Careful now brother, Christ only gave two "commandments". That's why He said His yoke was easy and His burden light. Going to church wasn't one of them.

Ahh, but Paul tells us to go to church in Hebrews 10:25, and Christ set the example for us on multiple occasions by meeting on Sunday morning. He even rose from the grave on a Sunday morning, and the early church always meets on a.....you guessed it, Sunday morning




Ah, but Paul's pastoral advice isn't a "commandment" from the Lord. He gave us only 2. Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Paul' s advice isn't good. I'm just saying it is NOT a command from the Lord.



posted on Feb, 11 2012 @ 04:13 PM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 



The Holy Bible clearly teaches that going to church is not only a great thing, but also a commandment.

If you recall my post.... I never said Christ gave going to church as a commandment.....I said the Holy Bible did as I quoted above. And last I checked, Hebrews 10:25 is part of the Holy Bible.
edit on 11-2-2012 by KJV1611 because: fixed original quote spell error



posted on Feb, 11 2012 @ 04:18 PM
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reply to post by Lionhearte
 


Your are misinterpreting or not dividing the word of Alahym correctly. 1 verse will not save you, and by that alone is how Christianity is based on, belief only, John 3:16 the famous quote, this is how cults are formed.

I was a Christian and I grew up in a Christian home and I know what is the deception behind all the goodie two shoe people who believe in Christian doctrine.


1. For one, 90% of Christians dont even study the history of the Bible ie. the Scriptures, they listen to their pastor, preacher, hear their 1 sermon a week and continue in their sin laden life.

2. All Christians do not have what it takes, to actually stand up for the right thing, but will cower, be passive and let things happen. This is modern Christianity, not 1000 year ago Catholic crusades.

3. When Christians find out their is more to do on their behalf, and not just sit like a couch potatoe and expect our Heavenly Father to save them, they resist and try to come up with excuses to justify being lazy.

4. 2 out of 3 Christians dont even read Scripture on a day or weekly basis, and have no idea what it really says, and its not what their prep rally, bible study, preacher is saying from the pulpit.

5. And the biggest problem with Christianity that most fall victim to, is it LOOKS RIGHT, FEELS RIGHT, and therefore they assume its RIGHT. But in fact Christianity has been moulded, sculptured, lathed, in so many ways to bring in NUMBERS, and NOT TRUTH, and it fools people by the millions. Its only about getting more through the door, and money for the church, and who cares about the pagan symbolism.

The bottom line is, Christianity is the best deception Satan has ever created to fool the masses. Thats all its about. Bring in more souls, but dont teach them real truth, twist it, contort it by hermunetics, philosphy, exogesis, and human revelation.

Heres a question, has anyone read Romans chapter 6?


Romans chapter 6 KJV restored
6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that favour may abound?
6:2 By no means. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into the Messiah were baptized into his death?
6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as the Messiah was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
6:8 Now if we be dead with the Messiah, we believe that we shall also live with him:
6:9 Knowing that the Messiah being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
6:10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto Yahuwah .
6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto Yahuwah through Yahuwshuwah the Messiah our Saviour.
6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
6:13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto Yahuwah , as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto Yahuwah.
6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under favour.
6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under favour? By no means.
6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
6:17 But Yahuwah be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
6:19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.
6:20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.
6:21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.
6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to Yahuwah, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of Yahuwah is eternal life through Yahuwshuwah the Messiah our Saviour.


Simply put, it speaks that we cannot live anymore in sin, if we are born again.




posted on Feb, 11 2012 @ 04:18 PM
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reply to post by Lionhearte
 


And to think the verse that we hear everywhere John 3:16 is gonna save you....... Have you even read the next verses after? Or even the rest of the books of the New testament? Do you understand this is how cults are founded upon? By 1 passage of scripture, this is how Mormanism, JW's have come to be.


John 3:16-18 KJV Restored
3:16 For Alahym so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

3:17 For Alahym sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of Alahym .


Im gonna focus on John 3:18 here to show you, that it is connected to 3:16. It says 'he that does not believe on the NAME of the only begotton son of Alahym".

Not only do you must believe, you need to put your belief somewhere. You must believe on the Son's Name for Salvation. But Christians will say "Yes you must believe on Jesus". But is this true? No, this is a deception that is been finely tuned by Satan himself to fool Christians. Lets move to Acts chapter 4.


Acts 4:10-12 KJV restored
4:10 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Yahuwshuwah the Messiah of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom Alahym raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.
4:11 This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.
4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.


If anyone does some research, and finds out, these passages were not spoken by Kepha/Peter in English. With some common sense and research, you quickly realize that they were speaking in Hebrew to the priests. So that means you cannot just use ANY name, but you must use the Name spoken here that Peter spoke, otherwise his words would be a lie. I will not go into detail, but research yourself, and you will see that the Name spoken by Peter was Yahuwshuwah/Yahuwshuwah. There is no other Name, you must speak the original that came out of heaven by the messenger Gabrial to Mary/Myriam. They were not speaking English, there was no letter 'J' even in existance until about 1600 CE. And this name has been kept hidden from the true elect ones of this day, by Satan and his minions by the Church. In his cunning and crafty way to disguise it and translate it to a English name, that has no relation to the original, but instead is close relation to Iesus the Latin form and the Greek Iesous, which literally means 'Hail Zeus'. And this was done purposely, and here it will prove that. Continuing.


Acts 4:13-21
4:13 Now when they saw the boldness of Kepha and John, and perceived that they were unlearned and ignorant men, they marvelled; and they took knowledge of them, that they had been with Yahuwshuwah .
4:14 And beholding the man which was healed standing with them, they could say nothing against it.
4:15 But when they had commanded them to go aside out of the council, they conferred among themselves,
4:16 Saying, What shall we do to these men? for that indeed a notable miracle hath been done by them is manifest to all them that dwell in Jerusalem; and we cannot deny it.
4:17 But that it spread no further among the people, let us straitly threaten them, that they speak henceforth to no man in this name.
4:18 And they called them, and commanded them not to speak at all nor teach in the name of Yahuwshuwah.
4:19 But Kepha and John answered and said unto them, Whether it be right in the sight of Alahym to hearken unto you more than unto Alahym , judge ye.
4:20 For we cannot but speak the things which we have seen and heard.
4:21 So when they had further threatened them, they let them go, finding nothing how they might punish them, because of the people: for all men glorified for that which was done.


Do you see what happened here. They threatened the emissaries/apostles from teaching in the True Name of Yahuwshuwah the Messiah. And we can see that the Pharisees or the council of the Sanhedrin did not obey the orders of the apostles, and removed the only Name of the Son of Alahym.

And the worst part of this, I have brought this information to Christians, in my family and old church, and they have the attitude that it doesnt matter. It shows their cowardness, and lack of faith, which is shown by your works. I will expand on that on the next section and that will be all.




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