The Bringer of Light

Originally posted by Starchild23
Or it originated from within us ourselves.

That is what I believe. Satan exists, not without in any physical manifestation of pure evil, but WITHIN...as temptation, animal urges, and sometimes just chemical imbalances and rotten energy. By the way, when I say rotten energy, I mean somehow some very negative energy got bottled up inside and was never released properly, warping the psyche of the person.

I agree completely with your post Starchild. Lucifer is something within us humans and not an actual entity itself.

I also agree with you when you say negative energy warps a persons psyche, I believe the negative energy is built up or comes from bad experiences in a persons life e.g losing a family member or a bad childhood... just look at all the evil people in the world who commit crimes, most if not all have had a bad childhood or something bad happen to them, I am not saying I condone bad things but I bet if those things hadn't happened to the person then they wouldnt have done bad things in the future.

Thats my 2 cents anyways lol

Good thread S&F

Originally posted by Unity_99
montalk.net...

montalk.net...

There is negativity alright, real beings. And they farm us. The pdf above, it has really good info on what to do about all of it.

Mind Over Matter starting on page 31-36, though on from there about the synchronicities and guidance signs is good.

page 40 on about Higher Negative Forces, The Control System and How to Stop this gain control.

How they farm us.

Keep us low frequency through all sorts of tensions, fights, computer problems, missing keys. Murphy is not a friendly imp.

Basic ideas of attraction and intending, and raising frequency and how to stop negative things from happening.

That time, at least for some among us, has already come to it's end.

Revelations 21 - 21:7

Revelation 21
1And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

2And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

3And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

4And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

5And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.

7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

reply to post by Starchild23

Many people (mainly Christians and such) will say it has to do with the Tree of Knowledge. Well, I agree, to a point. See, I like to call it the Tree of Polarity. It showed Adam and Eve good and evil, positive and negative.

So, you cannot believe in a physical manifestation of Satan but, believe in the Tree? Enlighten me as to what this tree was and what it actually did. Was there a magical apple, once consumed, that granted this "polarity" ?

And because they were so weak from doing only good, they didn't have the resolve to resist evil.

So, knowing only good is weakness? Deep within myself this statement rings false. It seems you are fully embracing the perceived need for the duality of mankind. That somehow without it we would not be complete?

Instead of refusing those choices on principle, you can explain WHY...HOW...WHAT. You can reason with yourself that this and this will happen, and it's bad because of that or the other thing. If you are forced to only make good choices because you are never tempted, then you are not truly good. You never progress spiritually. You never had the chance to look at evil, say, "I can't do that, because of this," and then turn away. You never learned, and you never grew.

First of all, since you use Christian mythology, how were they forced to only make good choices if they had no knowledge of anything else? Outside looking in one may feel that way but, for them it was all there was to know. By that logic it would be evil to force them to be good.
Or, did their God simply state, do this and all will be well? Do that and things will go bad? If so then they had a choice before the feast at the Tree. Temptation was there from the beginning. When people are given a choice temptation is born. They immediately wonder what IF... I do not see any evil in simple temptation.
Now if you are speaking of the laws of modern religion's Gods and of people who gather their wits about them and decide that said laws are not for them then, BAM, you could say they were tempted by choice. The choice of following something that makes no sense or following their heart. I see no need to give Lucifer credit for choice, or Freedom, that a person has by nature alone.

Now you said this...

If you cannot learn, who can you hope to grow? Lucifer will show us. But we must remember not to let temptation rule us. See the lessons, take them to heart, and grow. That's the point of learning.

Why, oh why, make the case for all of this to be within us and then give credit to a name of something that millions believe exists outside us? A name that you say is nothing but a metaphor? If you are going to make the case that temptation, evil, good, etc are all within us then simply make it. Please do not try to recreate/reimagine an already flawed mythical story.

OR, if you are going to do so use something more interesting, like THE WORLD TURTLE. LoL

Overall, great post. I hope this gives you food for thought.

reply to post by Sagittarian69

FYI, It has to do with judgement (supreme knowledge of the duality of good and evil), which does not belong to the human being, lacking in absolute perfect awareness of all cause and effect aka karma, and of the notion of human authority waving a finger of should and should not, or, of trying to adhere to a law of life and love which is absolute in it's perfection and integrity, any violation of any part of which (even in the domain of the innermost heart of hearts) amounts to breaking the whole law (loss of integrity). Thus, should righteousness come from "above" (domain of incorruptibility) in the form of Grace (unmeritted yet freely given), then in the space of absolute forgiveness, or what I call a radical, transformative forgiveness, the human being may be set free and made whole again (reintegrated), to freely love as we are first loved, and thus to be freely self-expressed whereby on re-discovery (the free gift recieved and opened) we come to recognize (re cognize) that our truest self, on the other side of our personality, is this same love, re-joined with the love of all as a type of first/last cause aka the Alpha and Omega of existence.

The Bible is the story of us, of the human being, within the frame of a historical process of differentialion, and eventual reintegration.

Edit to add: Good is good for goodness' own sake, is cannot be justified by what is bad or evil. That said, for the human being, more often that not, all happiness and joy must arise exclusively only in relation to some unhappiness, already experienced, and, the more that suffering has carved into our being, the more joy we can contain. Perhaps it (evil) may have played a role, but it's now outlived it's usefulness, the data is in.

"you will know them by their fruits."

The true of life is the only REAL tree there is. The other tree is a false tree built upon a false premise, and a lie.

Therefore, the one who is supremely righteous, yet tempted on all points, yet without sin, is the perfect judge as the perfect standard, and our judgement, is then in accordance with our own thinking, words and actions, against ourself, for those who lack the wisdom or the courage to recieve and open the free gift of incaculable value, which is unearned yet freely given, and fully capable of restoring us to wholeness and integrity ie: filling in our gaps with an intercessory grace from the incorruptible center and source of all true life, and therefore true happpiness and joy, of the everlasting variety.

The Bringer of the Dawn...Like it or not!

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by Sagittarian69

 

FYI, It has to do with judgement (supreme knowledge of the duality of good and evil), which does not belong to the human being, lacking in absolute perfect awareness of all cause and effect aka karma, and of the notion of human authority waving a finger of should and should not, or, of trying to adhere to a law of life and love which is absolute in it's perfection and integrity, any violation of any part of which (even in the domain of the innermost heart of hearts) amount to breaking the whole law (loss of integrity). Thus, should righteousness come from "above" (domain of incorruptibility) in the form of Grace (unmeritted yet freely given), then in the space of absolute forgiveness, or what I call a radical, transformative forgiveness, the human being may be set free and made whole again (reintegrated), to freely love as we are first loved, and thus to be freely self-expressed whereby on re-discovery (the free gift recieved and opened) we come to recognize (re cognize) that our truest self, on the other side of our personality, is this same love, re-joined with the love of all as a type of first/last cause aka the Alpha and Omega of existence.

The Bible is the story of us, of the human being, within the frame of a historical process of differentialion, and eventual reintegration.

Edit to add: Good is good for goodness' own sake, is cannot be justified by what is bad or evil. That said, for the human being, more often that not, all happiness and joy must arise exclusively only in relation to some unhappiness, already experienced, and, the more that suffering has carved into our being, the more joy we can contain. Perhaps it (evil) may have played a role, but it's now outlived it's usefulness, the data is in.

:"you will know them by their fruits."

The true of life is the only REAL tree there is. The other tree is a false tree built upon a false premise, and a lie.

edit on 31-1-2012 by NewAgeMan because: (no reason given)

Very silver tongued are ye! But truths be told!

reply to post by blazenresearcher

Point is that it's a valid framework (or was, once fully "grokked"). The atheists and the unbelievers assume much too much, while presuming to know more, which is absurd really, because such an apriori bias does not and steadfastly refuses to investigate with an open mind, free of contempt, which would be a surefire way to simply remain in a state of everlasting ignorance if there's any truth to the framework where context and framing IS meaningful.

reply to post by NewAgeMan

Tell you what. Take those 2 run-on sentences and retype them. Be very specific. Let me know how you feel without all the fluff. THEN, I will respond to what you say.

It seems interesting but, it is hard to follow and I do not want to make a mistake responding incorrectly.

See?

It has to do with judgement (supreme knowledge of the duality of good and evil), which does not belong to the human being, lacking in absolute perfect awareness of all cause and effect aka karma

I am using my judgement to reserve judgement of your statement until it is further clarified by you. I have taken into consideration all relative scenarios of cause and effect. I await your response.

And now I must edit to respond to your edit LoL

Where does this stuff come from?

all happiness and joy must arise exclusively only in relation to some unhappiness, already experienced, and, the more that suffering has carved into our being, the more joy we can contain.

Reminds me of the bible, Doesn't make it true. Suffering is a must in order to appreciate good things? Ask that of a small child and it's loving mother. Does it need to feel the pain of loss to appreciate her?

Therefore, the one who is supremely righteous, yet tempted on all points, yet without sin, is the perfect judge as the perfect standard, and our judgement, is then in accordance with our own thinking, words and actions, against ourself, for those who lack the wisdom or the courage to recieve and open the free gift of incaculable value, which is unearned yet freely given, and fully capable of restoring us to wholeness and integrity ie: filling in our gaps with an intercessory grace from the incorruptible center and source of all true life, and therefore true happpiness and joy, of the everlasting variety.

Is there a difference between life and true life or, happiness and true happiness? People insert words where they are not needed. Like saying love and true love. Love is all that is. Love above all.

reply to post by Sagittarian69

It was reasonably communicated. If you can't understand it, what I said, I'm not sure what else I can say..?

That it confounds you is perhaps well, intriguing..

reply to post by Starchild23


Thanks for your post. Most interesting!

Here's what happened...

One day God looked at the World he created, and saw that something wasn't exactly right. Everything seemed in place and at peace, everything was abundant and plentiful. And everything an everybody liked, loved and worshipped God, who the Earth inhabitants thought was the only God in existence, because everything came from him and they had want for nothing. It had been a pretty well-done job of God, creating this beautiful image of Earth, and he now had everything exactly the way he wanted it, and with the absolute power over everything an everyone.

While his peers, as Creator Gods of their own realms of Existence, were steadily making progress in Evolution, and actively helping All That Is to Kow Itself, God's creation did not evolve accordingly to what he had been taught in Godschool. So, it's back to the notebooks for God, and he finds out he missed a couple of points on the 'List of Requirements for Physical & Spiritual Evolution of Entities.

Gods in general, don't like to admit their mistakes. After all, they are seen and worshipped by their off-spring as Perfect, and you don't go telling anyone you're not, and certainly not... 'Oops, I've been withholding some important info from you guys that will help you evolve and expand your Knowledge, and eventually make you into, well... Gods!' Yes, even Gods don't like to lose face and get downgraded for bad performance by their superiors.(sound familiar? As Above, so Below?)

Now, God has to get his act together, otherwise he'll miss out on doing his part of the construction of The Harmonic Tree for All That Is, and which is his sole reason of existence. But he can't let go of his creation, Earth, where he's All Powerful, and he still thinks he can do things different from the blueprint handed to him by All That Is. And in which it clearly states, that one of the most important ingredients for a successful evolution on every realm is... Free Will of Choice.

So God 'forgot' to give this to his creation, and now he's in trouble with the rest of the Lesser Gods, who have done their thing and have evolved. They're not a bad lot, so some evolved Gods offer to help Earth evolve. An ingenious plan, in which no one will lose face.

Blatantly overestimating himself, God agrees for a small contingency of Evolved Gods (Light Bringers) to come over to Earth and introduce Free Will of Choice to his off-spring, Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden, and all the rest of it, nice metaphores.

The name of the game was/is... Temptation. And God made a bet, saying that his Creation would never 'fall' for it, so go ahead and try. As part of the game, God strictly forbade his off-spring to eat from the (Apple) Tree (of Knowledge). And since they were solely obedient to God, and ignorant of anything else existing outside their safe little world, 'Adam and Eve' were happy and perfect, one-sided, beings. But not stupid!

Temptation has many faces, and the Evolved Gods 'showed' themselves, not as themselves, but as an entity recognizable to Adam and Eve, who wouldn't be shocked or afraid to see it. Oké, so it was snake. Could have been a kangaroo for all I care.

Long story short, the plan works, the 'apple' (Knowledge) gets eaten, and the Human Race gets to know Free Will of Choice. And now God is pissed off, because he's been proven wrong, and now he'll lose his Absolute Power over his creation. He used to make all the choices for everyone and everything, and now he actually has to share Consciousness with his off-spring. And those damned Evolved Gods are to blame!

So God puts up a fight, through his off-spring, yes, us, to keep us from evolving and becoming fully aware and conscious of who and what we truly are. He wants his old power back, to the way it used to be... don't we?

Makes you wonder who's who.

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by blazenresearcher

 

Point is that it's a valid framework (or was, once fully "grokked"). The atheists and the unbelievers assume much too much, while presuming to know more, which is absurd really, because such an apriori bias does not and steadfastly refuses to investigate with an open mind, free of contempt, which would be a surefire way to simply remain in a state of everlasting ignorance if there's any truth to the framework where context and framing IS meaningful.

Most Excellent...I would love to remain in a state of everlasting ingorance,,,but unfortunately, those are not the Cards that I have been dealt.

reply to post by NewAgeMan


No it was not. Read my edit. I was mid response when you edited. Run-on sentences are not a clear way of communication especially when you fill them with ( ). So, yea, clarity is not your strong point. That's ok. You are not the perfect being and I can understand and even sympathize with your error. I am not perfect either.

Now. You gonna talk down to me some more?

reply to post by LajanAytik


I love your story. I have read something like that elsewhere but, cannot remember where. So, god is in class and apparently at the bottom since all of his peers have already ascended.

Did he create all of me or just my body? Cause I am wondering if I actually chose this or am just SOL ?

Originally posted by Sagittarian69
reply to post by LajanAytik

 

I love your story. I have read something like that elsewhere but, cannot remember where. So, god is in class and apparently at the bottom since all of his peers have already ascended.

Did he create all of me or just my body? Cause I am wondering if I actually chose this or am just SOL ?

LOL...

Sagitariuns know best!.....Or don't know at all...that is the beauty of the Zodiac...the force within!

Originally posted by Sagittarian69
reply to post by LajanAytik

 

I love your story. I have read something like that elsewhere but, cannot remember where. So, god is in class and apparently at the bottom since all of his peers have already ascended.

Did he create all of me or just my body? Cause I am wondering if I actually chose this or am just SOL ?

Thanks, it was about time I wrote something like that.

Well, God certainly doesn't have my vote of confidence, with letting others do the work for him, and then getting pissed off when he loses a deal. Should have done it himself and be a hero, instead of being a whiner that goes behind people's backs, and loses his off-spring in the process. Look around at the world.

From my limited point of view, the god that is worshipped in this world, created everything in this realm with the Knowledge he got at Godschool. So we are as much part of God, as God is part of All That Is. Meaning that, basically we are all an extension of All That Is, by higher or lesser degree, but always part thereof. So, yes, in that context, you co-created your own physical and spiritual body.

The concept of Free Will of Choice, is an entirely different matter, outside this realm of our existence. Same principal, different application. And I venture to say, that the more we evolve towards becoming whole with All That Is, the less Freedom of Choice you have.

Just a thought.

So, yes, in that context, you co-created your own physical and spiritual body.

reply to post by LajanAytik


Hmmmm. Excuse me while I kick my own arse. BrB....................................................................

And I venture to say, that the more we evolve towards becoming whole with All That Is, the less Freedom of Choice you have.

I would humbly disagree with this statement. I would think it would be the other way around. Once becoming whole one would have all the freedom the universe, and beyond, could offer.

reply to post by Starchild23


Lucifer and Satan are two different entities. They aren't the same person. Lucifer is a reference to the King of Babylon found in Isaiah 14 and is most likely a fallen angel of some sort. The King of Babylon is called Helel or "Shining One" hence where the Latin name Lucifer probably comes from, Lucifer meaning "Light Bearer." Satan, Satanael or Ha-Satan means "The Opposer" or "The Accuser" and is a reference to the Devil or "Tempter" and he is the one who in the Garden tempted Adam and Eve to eat the apple. If you read the literal translation of Scripture and trace it back to it's hebrew and aramaic origins things become much clearer. Satan is an entity commissioned by God to test man's faith whereas "Lucifer" is probably a rebellious, pompous fallen angel. At least that is what the Hebrew tells us.

Originally posted by Sagittarian69

I would humbly disagree with this statement. I would think it would be the other way around. Once becoming whole one would have all the freedom the universe, and beyond, could offer.

I would humbly answer... Exactly! My even humbler question would be: Do you, at this very moment, have a choice to be other than you are, when you are,,, All That Is?

reply to post by LajanAytik

I would humbly answer... Exactly! My even humbler question would be: Do you, at this very moment, have a choice to be other than you are, when you are,,, All That Is?

Yes, I have the choice but, I am limited by my self imposed shackles. Progress has been made to remove them. I am not yet free.

you guys are all saying awesome and relevant points!

What I think lucifer is, is a conglomerate archetype, representing potential human genius, insight, the beauty and majesty of being an individual human, with the gift of imagination, the infinite potential of mind,..

they knew back then the potential power of man, with harnessed knowledge and understanding what man can accomplish.,

but with this enlightenment, an individual able to read his surrounding nature, has free will, and he can use this power for bad or good.... he can use his knowledge to take advantage of others for himself for his own curiosity and folly, the betterment of a select...

this is why the elites/illuminati worship lucifer.... it was the beginning of the infinitely powerful expression of mans inner divinity, the potential of the suns energy worked through the spiritual instrument of man... they believe they are privileged with this knowledge and it is their right and prerogative to use it to benefit their individual self ad infinitum..

whereas jesus, shared this ability of lucifer, but saw the potential for the whole of humanity, the potential harmony, and peace, and order..

see for the enlightened men thousands of years ago, rightly so worshipped lucifer, in that they right fully so, knew the magical potential for its application,.,. they would freak out if they saw a modern city and modern technology.,..

this is the lesson of god... we are individuals, and we need to treat ourselves with upmost importance to continue living.., but we also depend on others for our means of continued living.,.,. harmony will exist when the two blend, harmoniously,,, and one will love thy neighbor as them self,,, and not be weary or hesitant to do so, for they will lose nothing for being kind, good, selfless, etc..