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The Bringer of Light

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posted on Feb, 1 2012 @ 01:49 AM
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reply to post by Starchild23
 


Hit the nail on the head, I believe the devil or Lucifer, is Man's EGO...The devil INSIDE....Makes more sense to me that the Bible is is a metaphorical view on the micro to macro cosmic struggle of Man with HIMSELF...from birth (GENESIS) to death (REVELATIONS) and describes the spiritual journey of self-realization we must all come to understand. The Old Testament is a description of a life lived without GOD's guidence, the New Testament describes when a man begins to discover the CHRIST within himself...if that makes sense...If you look at the underlying meaning, The bible decribes our Lives...personally and collectivelly. Of course, it was mirrored in real life events (as above so below).

1Love




posted on Feb, 1 2012 @ 03:05 AM
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Satan, lucifer, the devil is not a single person but more of a race/species of intelligence. Satan was always bad in abrahamic faiths because Satan never wanted woman/man created.

If you look at all religions or just spiritual tribes you notice Satan the dragon/serpent in many forms was good and yet evil, also Satan wasn't just male but a female.

If you read the story about Bel the dragon you notice it wants to be worshipped by man, can eat food with jews at a table and even die by food poisoning from daniel.
www.earlyjewishwritings.com...

Im not religious but this is just my theory on Satan/Lucifer/thedevil.

The serpent race is still living with us, that I do agree ever since we evolved.
π
edit on 1-2-2012 by anthonygillespie2012 because: (no reason given)

edit on 1-2-2012 by anthonygillespie2012 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 1 2012 @ 08:15 AM
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Originally posted by ImaFungi

this is the lesson of god... we are individuals, and we need to treat ourselves with upmost importance to continue living.., but we also depend on others for our means of continued living.,.,. harmony will exist when the two blend, harmoniously,,, and one will love thy neighbor as them self,,, and not be weary or hesitant to do so, for they will lose nothing for being kind, good, selfless, etc..


edit on 31-1-2012 by ImaFungi because: (no reason given)



Good points.
I agree.

However, from my limited point of perspective, it was not God's lesson, it was the lesson brought by the Light Bearers, and God, meaning us, had to deal with a sudden change of course, when we suddenly found ourselves having to deal with Free Will of Choice. And we're still debating the event, and tear each other's heads off about who's right and who's wrong... for godssake! (pun intended)


Being wary of sharing Knowledge, finds its reason in Resistance by those who, like God, want to keep everything for themselves and everything in the same way it always was, and has, in my experience, very little to do with not wanting to share it.

When you introduce someone to a new tool, let's say, a hammer, to put a nail in the wall for a beautiful picture, and that someone uses it to bash your head in, who's responsible for the use that tool was given?

Oh man, isn't it all confusing, when we don't listen with our hearts? But we'll get there... eventually! We All do!



posted on Feb, 1 2012 @ 08:20 AM
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Originally posted by Sagittarian69
reply to post by LajanAytik
 





I would humbly answer... Exactly! My even humbler question would be: Do you, at this very moment, have a choice to be other than you are, when you are,,, All That Is?


Yes, I have the choice but, I am limited by my self imposed shackles. Progress has been made to remove them. I am not yet free.



You will be.



posted on Feb, 1 2012 @ 08:35 AM
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reply to post by Viking9019
 


And what proof do you have for that?

New-age is actually old-age, we just rediscovered it.
so give up on the new-age stuff.



posted on Feb, 1 2012 @ 08:39 AM
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Originally posted by DAZ21
Ok I read the whole thing.

So are you saying we should veiw lucifer as our saviour to gain enlightenment?

That also he gave us the chance to learn and understand, so we should veiw him as equal to God?

Of course if they both exist.



You missed my point, so no, that's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is instead of blaming a fictional monster for our sins, we should accept that it comes from within ourselves. That is the only way "sin" can be beaten, or learned from. We won' be able to resist temptation, but we can learn from it. We must stop blaming everything else, and start looking within for the supposed "Devil".

Also, I was trying to point out that it's perfectly natural to be sinful, unlike many of these righteous people shouting that you have to live a pure and clean life. If you learn from those mistakes, then you'll know precisely WHAT wrong is and HOW it's wrong. It is better to know why you abhor certain things that you might be tempted to do, than it is to simple avid it on principle, without actually knowing the reasons for that conclusion. Following temptation will satisfy the curiosity, and if curiosity is there but never solved, you will never progress spiritually.

Accept sin (to a very moderate extent) so that you may overcome it.


Namaste


p.s. it doesn't work for everyone, because their will to overcome temptation is weak.
edit on CWednesdayam303048f48America/Chicago01 by Starchild23 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 1 2012 @ 08:54 AM
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Originally posted by anthonygillespie2012
Satan, lucifer, the devil is not a single person but more of a race/species of intelligence. Satan was always bad in abrahamic faiths because Satan never wanted woman/man created.

If you look at all religions or just spiritual tribes you notice Satan the dragon/serpent in many forms was good and yet evil, also Satan wasn't just male but a female.

If you read the story about Bel the dragon you notice it wants to be worshipped by man, can eat food with jews at a table and even die by food poisoning from daniel.
www.earlyjewishwritings.com...

Im not religious but this is just my theory on Satan/Lucifer/thedevil.

The serpent race is still living with us, that I do agree ever since we evolved.
π
edit on 1-2-2012 by anthonygillespie2012 because: (no reason given)

edit on 1-2-2012 by anthonygillespie2012 because: (no reason given)


So you believe the Devil has a physical form outside of ours?



posted on Feb, 1 2012 @ 09:00 AM
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Originally posted by Sachyriel
If evil only exists to cast light on what is good and evil, is casting light on a moral dilemma inherently evil? Is the rampant snarkiness of any online community a part of the evil that exists only when viewing any event? Could the Devil really be me every time I laugh at how F11 shakes the map?

Evil, our friend, merely because it is funny. Good, our friend merely because they are empathic.

Good, laughs with Evil, not against it. What are we to do but laugh in Gods face when Evil erupts on his watch?


Why would it be inherently evil to educate yourself about a moral dilemma? Is it better to wait until the perfect opportunity comes along and you suddenly can't resist your curiosity? It's happened to all of us.



posted on Feb, 1 2012 @ 09:03 AM
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Originally posted by Oxygenation
Lucifer is worshiped by many secret societies.. only they call him Baal...
He is very real.. he has a goatee and horns, i have seen his picture myself!

Well known satanists prey to the same deity, just Google Anton lavey or Alastair Crowley and you will see the picture of the devil for yourself.

Surely he is real.. if so many presidents, congress men, politicians and government officers have bowed down to worship him.... no?


.....no. You base your belief off of pictures you've seen on the internet? You do realize there are DOZENS of different images of Satan? Dozens of different appearances? How do you know the ones you've seen are the right ones, and not just fabricated from myths?

If they have bowed to him, they have done so in traditional worship passed down through generations. These are viewed as sacred rites, and they would have no reason to change them through the generations.

Besides, to my understanding, each family would have is own means of worshiping the "Devil". But see, energy can do things, no matter what kind of energy it is. But negative energy obeys the laws of the universe as well. It returns to you at some point. Unfortunately, when it comes back, it destroys. That is one of the processes of Devil worship, and it is only a rather faster exercise in how to control energy; however, it warps your mind.

Those people have focused on that dark place those temptations come from. Because temptation stirs thought, and thought is power. I may do a thread on that at some point.


edit on CWednesdayam434308f08America/Chicago01 by Starchild23 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 1 2012 @ 09:08 AM
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I know what you mean, and I agree to an extent. However, there are things 'out there' that if you saw today, you would say, "demon".

I think Satan isn't a material flesh and blood entity. But I also think that he exists as more that just our drive to temptation. He uses our drive to temptation to destroy us. He is the destroyer. He (it) is fearsome. Horrifying. Satan is a state of mind, more like an emotional state. Hate itself. Fear itself. Greed. All that. All in one package.

There are those that serve satan to gain power and control. When the "gods" came to earth thousands of years ago (fallen angels), they did so for conquest, to gain power and control.



posted on Feb, 1 2012 @ 09:19 AM
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Originally posted by Sagittarian69
reply to post by Starchild23
 




Many people (mainly Christians and such) will say it has to do with the Tree of Knowledge. Well, I agree, to a point. See, I like to call it the Tree of Polarity. It showed Adam and Eve good and evil, positive and negative.


So, you cannot believe in a physical manifestation of Satan but, believe in the Tree? Enlighten me as to what this tree was and what it actually did. Was there a magical apple, once consumed, that granted this "polarity" ?




And because they were so weak from doing only good, they didn't have the resolve to resist evil.


So, knowing only good is weakness? Deep within myself this statement rings false. It seems you are fully embracing the perceived need for the duality of mankind. That somehow without it we would not be complete?




Instead of refusing those choices on principle, you can explain WHY...HOW...WHAT. You can reason with yourself that this and this will happen, and it's bad because of that or the other thing. If you are forced to only make good choices because you are never tempted, then you are not truly good. You never progress spiritually. You never had the chance to look at evil, say, "I can't do that, because of this," and then turn away. You never learned, and you never grew.


First of all, since you use Christian mythology, how were they forced to only make good choices if they had no knowledge of anything else? Outside looking in one may feel that way but, for them it was all there was to know. By that logic it would be evil to force them to be good.
Or, did their God simply state, do this and all will be well? Do that and things will go bad? If so then they had a choice before the feast at the Tree. Temptation was there from the beginning. When people are given a choice temptation is born. They immediately wonder what IF... I do not see any evil in simple temptation.
Now if you are speaking of the laws of modern religion's Gods and of people who gather their wits about them and decide that said laws are not for them then, BAM, you could say they were tempted by choice. The choice of following something that makes no sense or following their heart. I see no need to give Lucifer credit for choice, or Freedom, that a person has by nature alone.

Now you said this...




If you cannot learn, who can you hope to grow? Lucifer will show us. But we must remember not to let temptation rule us. See the lessons, take them to heart, and grow. That's the point of learning.


Why, oh why, make the case for all of this to be within us and then give credit to a name of something that millions believe exists outside us? A name that you say is nothing but a metaphor? If you are going to make the case that temptation, evil, good, etc are all within us then simply make it. Please do not try to recreate/reimagine an already flawed mythical story.

OR, if you are going to do so use something more interesting, like THE WORLD TURTLE. LoL

Overall, great post. I hope this gives you food for thought.


Hmm...You didn't read my post well enough. I did recommend you so.

First of all, I never said the Tree was real. If I had said so, I would have included two or three articles with the declaration and a couple of pictures. No, I'm sure the Tree is a metaphor for something, just as Satan is a metaphor for temptation.

Yes, knowing only good is weakness. A man who does not know his enemy cannot fight it, for he does not know it's power...especially if it comes from within. If you have no knowledge of the power of a part of yourself which will always whispers in your ear...will you be able to acknowledge it, learn from it, and overcome it?

By not offering the choice of evil, the temptation (however he would have done it) he takes away our free will. Does that sound like God?

Millions also believed the earth was flat. Not to mention Quetzlcoatl, the sun revolved around the earth, and that Jesus was born in winter. Bu someone has already said before in this thread that my theory makes much more sense than those fairytales.



posted on Feb, 1 2012 @ 09:57 AM
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The greatest trick the devil ever pulled....was convince the world he doesn't exist



posted on Feb, 1 2012 @ 10:00 AM
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reply to post by Thingol
 


No, that was our trick. The greatest trick we ever pulled was convincing millions of people the devil is a physical entity and comes from outside of us.
edit on CWednesdayam333300f00America/Chicago01 by Starchild23 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 1 2012 @ 10:03 AM
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reply to post by Starchild23
 


Good post. I feel the same way about the devil, or lucifer, or satan, whatever name you want. There caan be no good without evil. Everything in the universe is relative. Darkness could not be explained without knowing what light was.

We all know what being bad is like. We have all done it. It's a conscious choice. How we live is not dictated by some evil being, using that as an excuse is just an easy way of hiding the fact that you wanted to be bad.(IMHO)

And to the guy who thinks he know all about the devil because he saw pictures.



posted on Feb, 1 2012 @ 10:19 AM
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reply to post by NewAgeMan
 


I'm never concerned about what is for the few, but the for the many. The many are the ones that count here and the only reason some of us are here is to help. Because we already know the earth course material.

Its not for the few I'm here, they're misguided if they think that was there real purpose as well.
edit on 1-2-2012 by Unity_99 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 1 2012 @ 11:03 AM
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reply to post by Starchild23
 


First of all, I was just messing with you about the tree thing



Personally using Lucifer to convey that evil lies within us is not an approach I would use. Mankind is by nature tempted with their own imagination. I do not think that there was ever a time that we knew only good... aside from when we were babies perhaps.
Everyone should acknowledge every aspect of their personality. In order to deal with who they are. I just think using a religion that promotes "blame Satan" instead of "accept who you are" as an example left it a bit weak. Whereas simply putting forth that we are all capable of good and evil and must recognize it would, IMHO, been a better approach. I do not believe there was a catalyst that altered our perception of the world causing us to suddenly learn about temptation and evil. I think it has always been there.



posted on Feb, 1 2012 @ 11:25 AM
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Originally posted by Sagittarian69
reply to post by Starchild23
 


First of all, I was just messing with you about the tree thing



Personally using Lucifer to convey that evil lies within us is not an approach I would use. Mankind is by nature tempted with their own imagination. I do not think that there was ever a time that we knew only good... aside from when we were babies perhaps.
Everyone should acknowledge every aspect of their personality. In order to deal with who they are. I just think using a religion that promotes "blame Satan" instead of "accept who you are" as an example left it a bit weak. Whereas simply putting forth that we are all capable of good and evil and must recognize it would, IMHO, been a better approach. I do not believe there was a catalyst that altered our perception of the world causing us to suddenly learn about temptation and evil. I think it has always been there.



There is no good or bad. Only love and hate...joy and pain.

We have defined them as good and bad in order to describe why they make us feel the way they do. It is an act of measurement, trying to make sense of emotion.
edit on CWednesdayam505026f26America/Chicago01 by Starchild23 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 1 2012 @ 11:32 AM
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Originally posted by Starchild23

Originally posted by DAZ21
Ok I read the whole thing.

So are you saying we should veiw lucifer as our saviour to gain enlightenment?

That also he gave us the chance to learn and understand, so we should veiw him as equal to God?

Of course if they both exist.



You missed my point, so no, that's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is instead of blaming a fictional monster for our sins, we should accept that it comes from within ourselves. That is the only way "sin" can be beaten, or learned from. We won' be able to resist temptation, but we can learn from it. We must stop blaming everything else, and start looking within for the supposed "Devil".

Also, I was trying to point out that it's perfectly natural to be sinful, unlike many of these righteous people shouting that you have to live a pure and clean life. If you learn from those mistakes, then you'll know precisely WHAT wrong is and HOW it's wrong. It is better to know why you abhor certain things that you might be tempted to do, than it is to simple avid it on principle, without actually knowing the reasons for that conclusion. Following temptation will satisfy the curiosity, and if curiosity is there but never solved, you will never progress spiritually.

Accept sin (to a very moderate extent) so that you may overcome it.


Namaste


p.s. it doesn't work for everyone, because their will to overcome temptation is weak.
edit on CWednesdayam303048f48America/Chicago01 by Starchild23 because: (no reason given)


Starchild I don't get you.

If what you've written means what it says, then It's not just contradictory, It's dangerous.

What's to stop a man from fulfilling his murderous temptations, so to spiritually progress?
Ok is this moderate? Well what is moderate? To me it might be a little white lie, to you it might be stabbing someone to death.

Then you contradict yourself in the note by saying, will to overcome temptation is weak. I think you meant strong. As this would then imply that an individual won't act on his temptations. When you are saying we should act on our temptations.

I must admit though, you definitely took a few psychology courses's didn't you? With all that freudian babble you splutter.

I enjoyed the thread though. Very out of the box



posted on Feb, 1 2012 @ 11:53 AM
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reply to post by Starchild23
 


Physical like flesh and blood?.......I don't believe that.......but a spiritual being for sure.......I never believed the bible until I started reading and studying it myself......I believe the devil is real......just as God is



posted on Feb, 1 2012 @ 12:43 PM
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reply to post by Starchild23
 


We will see how much of a metaphor he is when you meet him face to face. Only someone who has never seen a real loyal angel or one of the Fallen could ever say they were a metaphor. I can assure you, they are not and i am not the only person that has ever seen them. It's not something you could ever forget. Unlike all the stories of the Fallen being in hell, no they are not, not yet. They are still running around here and sometimes they look like you or me.



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