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The Bringer of Light

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posted on Feb, 1 2012 @ 12:48 PM
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reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 


Where did you see a real angel?




posted on Feb, 1 2012 @ 03:57 PM
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reply to post by Starchild23
 


Also, Lucifer isn't the 'Tempter', Satan is. Lucifer is "Helel" the Fallen Angel and King of Babylon whereas Satan or Ha-Satan is the "Opposer" "Tempter", "Deceiver" and "Accuser of the Brethren." See the difference? It isnt Lucifer the Light Bringer who tempts and deceives it is Satan the Accuser. But I suppose the "Light Bringer" does make for a better thread than the "Accuser of the Brethren."



posted on Feb, 1 2012 @ 05:54 PM
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reply to post by I Want To Believe
 


to my mind, lucifer would be the fallen angel of god,, king of babylon, babylon representing the current paradigm of the western world., the worshipped idol of most people... consumer material society, no respect for god, ones true self, or ones brethren.. worshipping the cleverness of man,,,. believing his inventions of mind will save souls,..

something about if there were a physical satan.. if there were a part of god that took joy out of destroying,,.,. like if you were an artist and you were painting, and made one little mistake and then snapped and tore our canvass and through everything,.,. there is that destructive nature of man who would risk giving everything away,.,. a battle with practicality,,. of the efforts of construction,,. the toll of energy expended cooperating and creating good,., it is so easy to be large forceful and powerful in size and swat planets,.,. squash ants,.,. stalking an innocent creature as prey,,. can you imagine an eternity of being just destroying anything in your path,., it would be fun,,... but after awhile perhaps it would get boring,, perhaps one would look for something more,, some kind of meaning,, or organization,, construction, creation...being evil and loving it,, it would be heavy metal,,,.
no thoughts, just rampage,, like a wolf or lion,like a child in a china shop ,. but now we as humans are designated this body, with limited abilities,. we came together to make living easier for all.,we know what it is like to feel pain, to feel the effects of destruction and ill regard,, of brute force,, ,. imagine human civilization if everyone at all times played the devil,, cheated, stole, not trustworthy, filled with contempt and rage, took advantage of others without care or feeling,,. for a being that just wants to exist its temporal existence with least resistance,. that vision of a civilization sounds like a hell...

if there were not peace and cooperation how would creations of good and beauty come about.,,.
edit on 1-2-2012 by ImaFungi because: (no reason given)

edit on 1-2-2012 by ImaFungi because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 2 2012 @ 08:22 AM
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Originally posted by DAZ21
reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 


Where did you see a real angel?


I don't know about lonewolf, but here's my account. "angel" and "demon"

www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Feb, 2 2012 @ 09:20 AM
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Originally posted by I Want To Believe
reply to post by Starchild23
 


Also, Lucifer isn't the 'Tempter', Satan is. Lucifer is "Helel" the Fallen Angel and King of Babylon whereas Satan or Ha-Satan is the "Opposer" "Tempter", "Deceiver" and "Accuser of the Brethren." See the difference? It isnt Lucifer the Light Bringer who tempts and deceives it is Satan the Accuser. But I suppose the "Light Bringer" does make for a better thread than the "Accuser of the Brethren."


Lucifer IS Satan (according to the Bible). Are you telling me he became a whole different person once he was cast out, and thus took on a whole new name?



posted on Feb, 2 2012 @ 09:32 AM
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Originally posted by Starchild23

Originally posted by I Want To Believe
reply to post by Starchild23
 


Also, Lucifer isn't the 'Tempter', Satan is. Lucifer is "Helel" the Fallen Angel and King of Babylon whereas Satan or Ha-Satan is the "Opposer" "Tempter", "Deceiver" and "Accuser of the Brethren." See the difference? It isnt Lucifer the Light Bringer who tempts and deceives it is Satan the Accuser. But I suppose the "Light Bringer" does make for a better thread than the "Accuser of the Brethren."


Lucifer IS Satan (according to the Bible). Are you telling me he became a whole different person once he was cast out, and thus took on a whole new name?


I believe there was a rebellion by some advanced life form who after the rebellion came to earth in search of power.



posted on Feb, 2 2012 @ 10:55 AM
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reply to post by smithjustinb
 


Sounds like you had sleep paralysis or something similar.

What you saw could have been a hypnogogic hallucination, or you may have been viewing the astral realm.

But cool experience, I've experienced similar things.



posted on Feb, 2 2012 @ 11:42 AM
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Originally posted by DAZ21
reply to post by smithjustinb
 


Sounds like you had sleep paralysis or something similar.

What you saw could have been a hypnogogic hallucination, or you may have been viewing the astral realm.

But cool experience, I've experienced similar things.


I believe it is more than a hallucination. When I saw the angel, I wasn't sleeping. What I saw in both cases was more alive than anything I have ever known.



posted on Feb, 2 2012 @ 05:50 PM
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Starchild, what exactly is your definition of 'good', and what is your definition of 'evil'. And what exactly are we tempted to do?

Good and evil are both very subjective and exist only in the mind of the beholder. What may be good for one is evil to another. An action which one belief system says we have been 'tempted' to perform may well be perfectly acceptable in another belief system. If you want to have a discussion on being tempted to or have knowledge of a particular action or thought as being good or evil, it would be helpful if you could define these terms at least according to what they mean to you.

The story of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil I see as a metaphor for the moment of first human consciousness, the moment when our minds reached a point (collectively) where it could ponder it's own existence.This in turn led to the creation of archetypal gods such as Satan or Lucifer or Baal or even Zeus for that matter. It led to the concepts of good and evil, and a whole myriad of mytholological dieties who championed these concepts. This is the moment when we began to lose the calm peace of an unconscious existence and replaced it with the thrill and the fear of realizing we are alive but not knowing why.



posted on Feb, 4 2012 @ 06:19 AM
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reply to post by Starchild23
 


I am saying that Lucifer and Satan or Ha-satan are two entirely different entities altogether or at least according to scripture and it's hebrew interpretation. Satan is the "Devil" or the "opposer" whereas Lucifer or Helel as Scripture calls him is a fallen angel and King of Babylon. That is what I am saying and it is what Scripture mirrors. According to Job, Satan or Ha-Satan or "The Devil" is a being that sits on Gods council and who's main commission is the testing and tempting of men such as he did with Eve, Abraham and Job. Helel or Lucifer as he is called now is nothing more than a rebellious Fallen Angel at least according to Scripture.

Do the research and see for yourself. The truth is evident. It is all there. Lucifer isnt the Devil and he isnt Satan He is just a jealous and rebellious Angel who wanted to be above God.
edit on 4-2-2012 by I Want To Believe because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 5 2012 @ 10:07 AM
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reply to post by Starchild23
 


OP, I think your ideas make sense to me. That isn't exactly the good housekeeping seal of approval though.



posted on Feb, 5 2012 @ 01:13 PM
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reply to post by Starchild23
 


Sin is the desire to please the flesh. Your flesh is tempted by the spirit of this world at work in you. God is love, the spirit of love at work in you. I just wanted you to see that you said the same thing Paul is saying here.



The Law and Sin Romans 7:7-25
7 What shall we say, then? Is the law sinful? Certainly not! Nevertheless, I would not have known what sin was had it not been for the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, “You shall not covet.” 8 But sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, produced in me every kind of coveting. For apart from the law, sin was dead. 9 Once I was alive apart from the law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died. 10 I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death. 11 For sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, deceived me, and through the commandment put me to death. 12 So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good.

13 Did that which is good, then, become death to me? By no means! Nevertheless, in order that sin might be recognized as sin, it used what is good to bring about my death, so that through the commandment sin might become utterly sinful.

14 We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. 15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18 For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature.[c] For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.

21 So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22 For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; 23 but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me. 24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? 25 Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord!
So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law, but in my sinful nature[d] a slave to the law of sin.


Now that you know the truth about what should you do? Keep on following the sinful desires that you know only lead to trouble, even though you know that it is by these acts that you learn. It is also by depression, anger and illness that you are punished by your father. You have been given a way out of this if you choose to believe.



Romans 6:1-4 1 What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? 2 By no means! We are those who have died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? 3 Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.


The Kingdom of Heaven is within, but no one can enter it without being born again.



2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.

Galatians 2:20 I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.

Colossians 2:11-13 In him also you were circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the powerful working of God, who raised him from the dead. And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses,


One can become free from this lesson of sin because one has understood the truth. God loves you and because he loves you he teaches you. Have you learned enough? Would you rather defeat sin and become a slave only to righteousness. It is quite simple have faith that God can circumcise your spirit from the spirit at work in your flesh. You will always know the spirit is there in your flesh but you will no longer desire to obey it.



John 8:34, 36 Whosoever 34 Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. 35 Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever. 36 So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.

I John 3:9 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God.


God is offering you a free gift. The freedom from willful sin and the assurance of eternal life. You can enter the Kingdom of Heaven now if you are ready to turn away from sin and trust that God can do what he is promising.
I put the next verse only to show you why you need to free yourself from sin.



1 Corinthians 6:9-11 9 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men[a] 10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.


You see this is one of the most abused verses in the bible. The point of this is you must leave the life of sin. You need to have faith in God and believe that he can free you from Satan so that you may become a slave to righteousness. If you continue to live by the flesh you are following the desires of Satan. Of course someone who is following the desires of the flesh can’t enter the Kingdome of the Spirit in you.

The choice is yours live in the flesh or die to the flesh so that you may live in the Spirit.



13 “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.


Let me give you what I believe about this verse. There are two gates and two roads that lead to the same place. We all start down the wide road that leads to the father, because we all have much to learn. Now that you have learned the truth you may choose the narrow Gate that leads to life. You can continue to walk in darkness or you can choose to walk in the light.

I did not mean this to be a sermon, so I am sorry if it looks that way. I just wanted to show you that the bible agrees with you in principal. And God reveals his wisdom to each of us the way that it is easiest for us to understand. What is important is what you do with this wisdom that has been given you.
With love and prayer your brother.


edit on 5-2-2012 by sacgamer25 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 5 2012 @ 02:09 PM
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Originally posted by sacgamer25
Sin is the desire to please the flesh.


Really?

Do you not take a breath because it pleases the lungs?

Do you not eat food because it pleases the tongue?

Do you not procreate because it pleases the genitals?

How long is the list of what we do that is good for us that we do to please the flesh?

What do we avoid?

Don't we wipe the excremant from our bodies because it displeases the flesh?

Don't we avoid that which hurts the flesh?

Don't we strive to prolong our flesh that we might live in it longer?

Our Flesh is the only way we know we exist.

If you truly hate it so, tear out your eyes, stab out your ears, sear your flesh that it feels no more, cut out your tongue, and plug your nose. Then, ONLY then will you be free of sin by your definition. In your nothingness you will be free to contemplate why a creator would create you so backwards to your own being.

Do not LIVE for the flesh, for it perishes, but enjoy it while you got it.

With Love,

Your Brother


edit on 5-2-2012 by IAMIAM because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 5 2012 @ 10:12 PM
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Originally posted by DAZ21
reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 


Where did you see a real angel?


Long story.

The angel i saw wasn't beautiful. He looked like a black dude wearing dreadlocks and dressed like a bum with a walkman that hasn't been marketed since 1980.

I was at work one winter, worked security at the courthouse. My brother dropped me off at work and it was a relatively warm day (55/60 F) so i didn't bring my coat. Turns out i forgot my wallet too so i was broke. Well for some reason my brother just left me at work because he was being a dick and my house was 10 miles away so i had no way home. It was getting late in the afternoon and the sun was going down fast and the temperature was going down very quickly. I just sat on the picnic table distressed with no way home and no cell phone or anything. Well i decided i was going to start walking, i didn't have my wallet so i had no money for busfare.

Well by the time i got to the middle of the fairly large parkinglot, this black guy with dreadlocks and dressed like a bum with some funky old headphoones from a 1980 walkman (orange colored pads) came walking around the back of the building and he walked right up to me and gave me the exact amount of money for bus fare and i didn;t even say a bloody word to him. He just handed me the money and looked me in the eyes and smiled at me. He had very kind eyes and he gave off a very "happy" presence. He turned and began to walk back the way he had come and i was turned around and i said over my shoulder as he began to walk away that i'd repay him if he came back in the morning and in the 2 seconds it took him to start walking away and the 2 seconds for me to turn around...he just disapeared into thin air. He was just gone. It is not humanly possible to cross the 50 yards from the middle of the parkinglot where i was standing to the back of the building where he had come from. He just disappeared in 2 seconds. I never saw him again.

God sent me one of his messengers when i was distressed to comfort and aid me. It could have even been Jesus himself, i do not know because i do not know what Jesus looks like. Who or whatever he was he was not hip to current fashion because he looked like he came straight out of 1980 and stepped into 2003. I never forgot that.

He just looked like a regular dude to me, no wings and no bright light.
edit on 5-2-2012 by lonewolf19792000 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 10 2012 @ 03:10 PM
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Originally posted by smithjustinb

Originally posted by Starchild23

Originally posted by I Want To Believe
reply to post by Starchild23
 


Also, Lucifer isn't the 'Tempter', Satan is. Lucifer is "Helel" the Fallen Angel and King of Babylon whereas Satan or Ha-Satan is the "Opposer" "Tempter", "Deceiver" and "Accuser of the Brethren." See the difference? It isnt Lucifer the Light Bringer who tempts and deceives it is Satan the Accuser. But I suppose the "Light Bringer" does make for a better thread than the "Accuser of the Brethren."


Lucifer IS Satan (according to the Bible). Are you telling me he became a whole different person once he was cast out, and thus took on a whole new name?


I believe there was a rebellion by some advanced life form who after the rebellion came to earth in search of power.


That didn't answer my question at all. Do you believe that Lucifer became Satan once he reached Earth? That he changed his name like a cast-out becoming a masked villain in the name of his wounded pride?



posted on Feb, 10 2012 @ 03:18 PM
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Originally posted by 1littlewolf
Starchild, what exactly is your definition of 'good', and what is your definition of 'evil'. And what exactly are we tempted to do?

Good and evil are both very subjective and exist only in the mind of the beholder. What may be good for one is evil to another. An action which one belief system says we have been 'tempted' to perform may well be perfectly acceptable in another belief system. If you want to have a discussion on being tempted to or have knowledge of a particular action or thought as being good or evil, it would be helpful if you could define these terms at least according to what they mean to you.

The story of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil I see as a metaphor for the moment of first human consciousness, the moment when our minds reached a point (collectively) where it could ponder it's own existence.This in turn led to the creation of archetypal gods such as Satan or Lucifer or Baal or even Zeus for that matter. It led to the concepts of good and evil, and a whole myriad of mytholological dieties who championed these concepts. This is the moment when we began to lose the calm peace of an unconscious existence and replaced it with the thrill and the fear of realizing we are alive but not knowing why.



That's a very interesting question. Good is the right thing for the right reason. You help someone for the sake of being helpful. Expecting to be paid makes it a neutral action, in my opinion, because at that point, it becomes a survival tactic. Good is love without malice.

Evil is malice for the sake of malice or greed or ignorance. If you attack a nation with the intent of harming for the sake of either crippling that nation in preparation for theft or for further assault, simply because you "feel like it", that's evil. Evil is malice without love.

It is difficult to explain because culture and teachings and lifestyles will warp and bend the average displays of good and evil until they are no longer even similar to what they once were.

Subjective? Not so. Most people will say that murder is evil, and they will also say to a murderer, "You should die." Most people will oppose theft except in extreme situations, and most people will support charity and support healthcare. The finer gradients of good and evil are more questionable, but that's because they become a mixture, and they are always complicated when they are not pure.

Temptation benefits. That is as simple as it gets. Good and evil need not be discussed to understand this, because they are brother and sister. Without evil, there is no good. Without good, there is no evil. There simply...is.

Polarity is the nature of our world. And thus, even as one may help, so can the other.



posted on Feb, 10 2012 @ 07:44 PM
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reply to post by Starchild23
 



Originally posted by Starchild23

That's a very interesting question. Good is the right thing for the right reason. You help someone for the sake of being helpful. Expecting to be paid makes it a neutral action, in my opinion, because at that point, it becomes a survival tactic. Good is love without malice.


If you help someone and it makes you feel good does that make it any less ‘neutral’ than helping someone and requesting payment?

If helping people made you feel like crap, or didn’t make you feel anything; or helping someone didn’t alleviate the feeling of guilt that some may possess due to the fact that they are better off in a material sense than those they help, do you think anybody would do much helping? Probably not.

There is always a pay off, whether it be cash or something else.


Evil is malice for the sake of malice or greed or ignorance. If you attack a nation with the intent of harming for the sake of either crippling that nation in preparation for theft or for further assault, simply because you "feel like it", that's evil. Evil is malice without love.


Malice is never committed with love. As much as it may seem like it, no one has attacked another simply in preparation for theft or merely to cripple the nation for a very very long time. Nor do any world leaders mobilise their fellow countrymen for war merely cos they ‘feel like it’. War for the sake of ignorance? If you are ignorant, but do not realize this, does this then make you evil?

There is always some underlying reason, no matter how misguided those reasons may actually be.


It is difficult to explain because culture and teachings and lifestyles will warp and bend the average displays of good and evil until they are no longer even similar to what they once were.

Subjective? Not so. Most people will say that murder is evil, and they will also say to a murderer, "You should die." Most people will oppose theft except in extreme situations, and most people will support charity and support healthcare. The finer gradients of good and evil are more questionable, but that's because they become a mixture, and they are always complicated when they are not pure.


If we cannot pin down what is good or evil due to cultural or lifestyle reasons then this means that your definition of what is good or evil is in fact completely subjective. Murder is just another word for killing with a subjective spin placed on it. Is it okay to murder animals for food when we good all quite easily live off a vegetarian diet? If a robber panics and shoots his victim, does this make the act evil or is it an accident? If the bullet missed the person altogether does this make that person or act less evil . Now if that bullet had hit someone else does this now increase the evilness of that act, even though it was an accident? Is what Robin Hood did evil – steal from the rich and give to the poor. Would he be more evil if he kept some for himself? What if he himself was poor? How can we even talk about good or evil when the entire concept of ownership is completely flawed in itself?


Temptation benefits. That is as simple as it gets. Good and evil need not be discussed to understand this, because they are brother and sister. Without evil, there is no good. Without good, there is no evil. There simply...is.


I’m sorry, but this makes no sense at all. Benefits who? I do things for my benefit all the time; I breathe, eat, drink, sleep, make love, read books, sit and veg out on the couch. How is this temptation? If after I’ve eaten enough to sustain myself I then have some chocolate cake was I tempted to eat that cake? What if I ate carrot sticks instead, even though they are much healthier but taste not nearly as good. The carrot sticks being healthier would benefit me more, does this means I’m even more tempted than if I ate the chocolate cake?


Polarity is the nature of our world. And thus, even as one may help, so can the other.


Close, but no cigar......

Perceiving polarity (when in fact it doesn’t actually exist) is the nature of the world. And is also the reason the world at present is so screwed up. We see something as evil when in fact it just is. We see ourselves as good when in fact we merely are.

Labelling of acts, concepts, people or countries as being either good or evil using simplistic buzzwords such as love or malice not only does nothing to address the root cause of why these acts were committed in the first place, but it actually increases the level of polarity present within the world and ultimately only serves to place the goal of universal enlightenment even further out of reach.

You may gain some benefit from reading this thread.



posted on Feb, 10 2012 @ 11:17 PM
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Originally posted by IAMIAM

Originally posted by sacgamer25
Sin is the desire to please the flesh.


.


Do you not take a breath because it pleases the lungs?
.

Never really asked them if they did it to survive or if it was simply pleasing.

.


Do you not eat food because it pleases the tongue?
.

It is more satisfying to give your meal to someone hungrier than you.

.


Do you not procreate because it pleases the genitals?
.

It is more pleasing to please the genitals of my wife.

If done in the context of marriage it is satisfying outside of marriage it is destruction. You do not need to agree but it remains the truth.



Don't we strive to prolong our flesh that we might live in it longer?


I live longer so that more people may come to know love, for my flesh is a curse not a blessing. I will be blessed when my flesh is no more.



Our Flesh is the only way we know we exist.


This may be true for you but it was not until I knew Christ In Me that I realized I existed.



If you truly hate it so, tear out your eyes, stab out your ears, sear your flesh that it feels no more, cut out your tongue, and plug your nose. Then, ONLY then will you be free of sin by your definition. In your nothingness you will be free to contemplate why a creator would create you so backwards to your own being.


This is what I did. I choose to turn away from the desires of the flesh and turn to my saviour Christ Jesus. And seperate me from my flesh is indeed what he has done.



Do not LIVE for the flesh, for it perishes, but enjoy it while you got it.


Live only to please God and you please that which does not perish.



With Love,

Your Brother


edit on 5-2-2012 by IAMIAM because: (no reason given)


Just returning the love Brother

edit on 10-2-2012 by sacgamer25 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 10 2012 @ 11:30 PM
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reply to post by 1littlewolf
 


Love is not subjective, and there are only 2 choices. Love and anything else.

Anything less than doing that which benefits your brother is not love.

Love for yourself is not love it is selfishness.
One cannot learn to love until one learns to stop loving themselves.

It is not until you learn to love that one will find peace.
If we all did that which was best for our brother, and we accepted all men as our brothers we would all find peace.

Doing anything contrary to that which benefits your brother is not love. It is better to give to your brother than to let him steal. It is better to be wronged than to seek revenge. Killing your brother is not love even if he was going to kill you. For it is better to die for your brother than to kill him.

If you could accept that which is best for your brother was also what is best for you than you would learn to love your brother.

If you could accept what I say than you would follow Christ.

With love,
Your brother.



posted on Feb, 11 2012 @ 04:07 AM
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Hey sacgamer,

My beliefs differ from yours, but I do so admire anyone who has committed themselves to the betterment of mankind whether I agree with the beliefs that drive them towards it or not. I believe that God is you me and everything else in the universe. As such I believe we are all connected, and that ultimately we are all one. He is not an external thing and we can find him just as easily by searching inwards than by looking outwards.

But even if I did believe as you – that God is external to his Creation and that Jesus was something more than a very inspired individual, I still would take issue with some of the things you say....

Originally posted by sacgamer25
Love is not subjective, and there are only 2 choices. Love and anything else.


I do not deny this. Love is what will ultimately lead us all home to the Source from which whence we came....


Anything less than doing that which benefits your brother is not love.
Love for yourself is not love it is selfishness.
One cannot learn to love until one learns to stop loving themselves.


I believe quite the opposite. One must first learn to love themselves, and accept themselves for who they are before you can fully love anything else. Why is it selfish to love yourself? You are a perfect human soul who walks in Earthly form. This was the body which God gave especially to you in order for his will to be done through you. Why would you hate the flesh? Why is the flesh a cursed thing? If God had believed this to be so why would you be born into the flesh in the first place? What would be the point.

There is nothing wrong or sinful in revelling in the body God gave you, just so long as you do not become lost in this indulgence and forget the higher purpose of why we are all here. I do not believe that one should ever feel guilty, just as long as one learns lessons and strives to be a better person.

I find the whole concept of ‘sin’ to be truly ridiculous and do not believe that a loving God would ever enforce on his creation such an arbitrary set of rules, which, if not followed, would result in eternal damnation. No intercourse unless you have first undergone a specific ceremony. Now does it matter if you are in a marriage that is loveless? Is this more of a sin or less than if you have sex with someone you truly love but have not yet been committed in marriage. No one goes to heaven unless they believe and accept Jesus into their lives....... unless of course you’ve never heard of him and then all that matters is if you’ve lived a good life. What if the only person who introduced you to Christ was a paedophile priest? Will you burn in hell if every time you hear the word ‘Jesus’ it makes you want to vomit in revulsion? Now either God has an endless list of loopholes and exceptions in his ‘get into heaven’ policy which would just be stupid, or he’s exceedingly cruel and not the loving father that he’s been made out to be (in which case Christianity is guilty of lying), or you are wrong.

Maybe the Bible is simply been too warped over time through men with an agenda to uphold and no longer plays any relevant part except as an interesting historical document with some fantastic metaphors and good bit in it about a truly inspired man who was born around 0 AD, and was exceptionally inspired for his time. That is if you read between the lines of the disciples who wrote the New Testament, who themselves were merely imperfect men (if indeed the books which claim their authorship were even written by them....)

Guilt, like hate and anger is a wasted emotion and I do not believe in being made to feel guilty based on the writings in a book which are 2000 years out of date.


It is not until you learn to love that one will find peace.
If we all did that which was best for our brother, and we accepted all men as our brothers we would all find peace.

Doing anything contrary to that which benefits your brother is not love. It is better to give to your brother than to let him steal. It is better to be wronged than to seek revenge.


Once again I do not disagree, although I would ask you better for whom....? The guy who just wronged you, the guy who no longer has the cops chasing after him for shoplifting? If a person who is caught stealing then learns a lesson he wouldn’t have if you had simply bought him the item he was going to steal is this then truly better?

See how subjectively flawed this simplistic way of thinking is?


Killing your brother is not love even if he was going to kill you. For it is better to die for your brother than to kill him.


This statement is wrong on so many levels. If you could change places with a serial rapist and murderer on death row who would only re-offend if set free then would you? I didn’t think so. The fact that there is any amount of grey to the seemingly black and white rules you live by only goes to prove that there’s something fundamentally wrong with them from the start.


If you could accept that which is best for your brother was also what is best for you than you would learn to love your brother.


As I believe we ultimately all one then yes I completely agree with this statement. But just because something benefits you without harming anybody else does this then make it wrong?


If you could accept what I say than you would follow Christ.


I accept what Christ says as being truly inspired on many levels, it’s just many of those who claim to represent him I have issues with.

Love and light brother.




edit on 11/2/2012 by 1littlewolf because: (no reason given)




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