The Bringer of Light

First, I want you guys to read this whole thing before posting. That way, there won't be any hasty assumptive posts.

Second, I will begin by explaining that I don't believe in Lucifer aka Satan aka the Devil...in the physical form.

As a metaphorical manifestation of what which exists within us all...that, I can agree with. See, I have always been confused about religion. And since religion has tried to answer a large part of what determines our role in the universe, but failed miserably as far as allowing us to understand, I have gone out on my own to search for the answer. All of my questions, I have been posting my personal answers to...questions that define the universe as we are aware of it, and even speculating about some of the more...uncertain aspects. And at no point have I said that I am right. I only state that I believe I am correct, and I have defended my position rather well. Should I be proven wrong in everyone's eyes, I will admit so. But I will not submit to trolls.

So, I have searched. And I have come to my own person conclusion, that the physical Satan does not exist. How so? Every single act that has been blamed on the devil, every single instance, has been either a bad mix of variables that would have happened the same way had the situation repeated....

Or it originated from within us ourselves.

That is what I believe. Satan exists, not without in any physical manifestation of pure evil, but WITHIN...as temptation, animal urges, and sometimes just chemical imbalances and rotten energy. By the way, when I say rotten energy, I mean somehow some very negative energy got bottled up inside and was never released properly, warping the psyche of the person.

Now...the history of Lucifer, the fallen angel. He decided he wanted to usurp God, and God cast him down from the heavens. Let's have a look at the title of Lucifer: Illuminator, Bringer of Light, Angel of Enlightenment... Yes, apparently Lucifer shows us something. But what?

Many people (mainly Christians and such) will say it has to do with the Tree of Knowledge. Well, I agree, to a point. See, I like to call it the Tree of Polarity. It showed Adam and Eve good and evil, positive and negative. Instead of being forced to do only good, they now had a choice. They knew what evil was. They had the temptation.

And because they were so weak from doing only good, they didn't have the resolve to resist evil. They committed evil, and from thereon, they followed the wishes of their God. Why? Because evil choices show us WHY those choices are evil. Instead of refusing those choices on principle, you can explain WHY...HOW...WHAT. You can reason with yourself that this and this will happen, and it's bad because of that or the other thing. If you are forced to only make good choices because you are never tempted, then you are not truly good. You never progress spiritually. You never had the chance to look at evil, say, "I can't do that, because of this," and then turn away. You never learned, and you never grew.

That's why Lucifer is the Light Bringer. Without temptation, you cannot learn. Without learning, you cannot grow. And without growth, you cannot spiritually evolve.

Of course, Lucifer is a metaphor. Lucifer is actually just what he is known for...temptation. Lucifer is the name of the temptation within us. Why do you think he is called the Tempter?

These are the lessons temptation has to teach us. And admit it: without temptation, you never have a choice, because it never occurs to you. And when you have no choice, you never learn.

If you cannot learn, who can you hope to grow? Lucifer will show us. But we must remember not to let temptation rule us. See the lessons, take them to heart, and grow. That's the point of learning.

Again, you may take your own stance on this. These are my beliefs; I do not force them upon you. However, I want you to take them into regard...you might learn from them.

Namaste

It could also be said that befor the tree. Man only knew of the good, the devil/Lucifer gave them the knowlege of evil, this giveing us free will. Not god.

There is no God or Satan within us.If there is a God or Satan,then they would be literal beings as they are described as being.

Please stop with the new age explanation tosh.

The Devil Satan wasnt evil , think about "God" for a second , he loves Satan and if his love was rejected of course hes going to get all "angry" isnt he ? whats worse than someone being all butt hurt and rejected ? all the biblical propaganda generated by humans on this subject paints satan as evil and the bad guy but in all origional biblical taxts all he did was rabel against gods plan for man kind . man needs a big bad wolf to keep the sheeple in line . Satan's rebellion ? not much of a big deal when you look at this planet , i would reject it too... infact man kind fell from grace long before satan or the angels ever did , and as for God being all forgiveing .. didnt he say he loved Satan more than anything ? if so why didnt he forgive him and let him come back ? is there something God wasnt want man kind to know about his "plan" Satan and the rebel angels wanting to over throw Gods rule in heaven ? more like paint the guy as the "evil" to hide your own ..lets not tell God that we see Satan as evil you never know he might first get "angry" then get "jelious" and want the bad boy reputation all for himself .. just sayin ..

Ok I read the whole thing.

So are you saying we should veiw lucifer as our saviour to gain enlightenment?

That also he gave us the chance to learn and understand, so we should veiw him as equal to God?

Of course if they both exist.

If evil only exists to cast light on what is good and evil, is casting light on a moral dilemma inherently evil? Is the rampant snarkiness of any online community a part of the evil that exists only when viewing any event? Could the Devil really be me every time I laugh at how F11 shakes the map?

Evil, our friend, merely because it is funny. Good, our friend merely because they are empathic.

Good, laughs with Evil, not against it. What are we to do but laugh in Gods face when Evil erupts on his watch?

reply to post by Viking9019


What he says is highly possible. More possible then an all knowing guy in the sky and some deamon below the planet sitting in fire to cause us harm. Please stop with oldschool, religious explanations thor.

Lucifer is worshiped by many secret societies.. only they call him Baal...
He is very real.. he has a goatee and horns, i have seen his picture myself!

Well known satanists prey to the same deity, just Google Anton lavey or Alastair Crowley and you will see the picture of the devil for yourself.

Surely he is real.. if so many presidents, congress men, politicians and government officers have bowed down to worship him.... no?

I just wish Christians would stop confusing Lucifer with Satan. If you actually believe in Satan, please understand that these two are not the same.

My personal belief, there is no such thing as Satan.

(o.p.) I agree... Satan was necassary... I belive, within our realms, there exist, chaos, adn order... and they sustain one another...
without choas, there cannot be order, without order, there cannot be chaos...
god and evil are counterparts, of the same concept...

(f.y.i.we all know, the catholics say, god created man in his image... some belive the "satan" created, "man" is "his' image... others say, god created the pefect man, and satan created "us" in "that" image... i believe its all a bunch of stories, and that we are all ignorant.. oh well, who am I to have opinions, im not the pope...)

the point that is, how can we "know"... Can we... ? I dont care, just though I would point that out...

Anyways... thank you for sharing ideas...
have a wonderfull duration of time...

Originally posted by freedom12
I just wish Christians would stop confusing Lucifer with Satan. If you actually believe in Satan, please understand that these two are not the same.

My personal belief, there is no such thing as Satan.

Indeed... it more than posible, that the orginal Lucifer(angel of light), was divided into portions, upon revolting...
Satan, Lucifer, and ect... could all the be: coexistant... and separate entities...

the secret book of John: says... god made soemthing, then that something, went and made soemthing else, wtihout gods consent... thats soemthing, is said to have been, what they call, satan... the thign that made him, was soem kind of angel, or what not...

[please be aware, that its just a theory....]

Many Magickal Evocationalists like myself would agree with you. Most of what people call Demons are all about Temptation, but they still need to follow this whole free will thing we all got going on. People many times view events as positive or negative, but that's really false because of how you view that event depends on your outlook on it. A person can see good and evil in almost any event if you only step back and look. If you see an event that has happened to you personally as negative, try reflecting back on it and see if hindsight can show you something good that came out of it. If you want to see Evil all around you its easy to pick out. But to see a horrible situation and can see something good, that takes work. If someone's house burns to the ground, that's bad. But no one stops to look at the firefighters risking their own lives to go inside that burning house, even when their chief told them its unsafe to do so, and save an entire family. Sure the family lost physical possessions and even ones that held some sentimental value, but they still have each other and just maybe the experience brought them closer together. Something that maybe they may never themselves see except when reflecting upon their lives many years down the road. Does evil exist? sure it does, but you chose whether you want to learn something from it or not

Why does it matter to you?

Yeah, I keep hearing how lucifer is not such a bad guy after all.

I hear it all the time on ATS these days.

lucifer (little "l" because it suits him) is the great deceiver.

He may be smart but he's still a liar.

FYI:

ignorance + tyranny + fanaticism = -3

virtue + fortitude + integrity = +3

-3 0 +3

The Path to the Light is a Circle!

Ribbit

reply to post by Starchild23


In a sense I can fully agree on the metaphorical implications you mention about Lucifer, although personally I see no reason to match this kind of metaphor with a specific religious doctrine. Every single religion known to man works on the same basic principles of good versus evil, dark versus light, negative versus positive, or what ever way an individual wishes to interpret the overall schematics of the teachings. Unfortunately I cannot grasp such a 'black and white' view on morality as there are so many variables or ' grey areas' when it comes to certain actions performed by an individual.

Firstly we need to be aware of the complexities of the human psyche coupled with various physical factors and outside influences, in other words similar actions performed by two individuals may personally differ in motives due to the way they perceive the situation in their minds. How many times have you seen cases of people committing similar crimes but their reasons for doing so differs in somewhat paradoxical ways. One man may say the devil made him do it while the other may claim it was Gods command to justify whatever crimes they are being prosecuted for.

It such a complex ideology to come to terms with but I must give you credit for having such a fresh view on the topic at hand and it will always be one of the most debatable issues since it has travelled with the human conciousness for millennia.

Metaphorically speaking I have danced with the devil and I have also had a tea party with angles and both the feelings of hate, guilt, anger and love, joy ,and compassion to name a few justifies why we struggle with the duality of our existence.

Much respect

Regards and keep pushing the boundaries of questioning life and all its mysteries

reply to post by freedom12


satan’s greatest accomplishment was convincing the world he’s not real.

He is threatened by God and goes around trying to convince people God is not real.

If people don’t believe in one of them they won’t believe in the other and he wins.

Good luck doing someone else’s bidding

Ahh...the Crux (no pun intended) of the swirling topics! Kudos OP!

Lucifer...like any other divine being...must not be personalized. Lucifer is the light, a force that rules our "kingdom"...now some won't like to hear that...but Lucifer apparently is the "Morning Star" the Bringer of the Light....when you think about it...Venus rises before the Sun.

Venus has also be noted to be the constant companion of Jesus...John the Baptist. Jesus being the SUN. This is an entertaining vid...long winded, unusual presentation but worth the look.

reply to post by Starchild23

There is a lie or deception which introduced duality, separation, enmity, and violence, and the hatred, and jealousy that breeds violence - and then there is the truth which brings the curse to an end, and which then makes available the flow of life as a co-creative, participatory framework of mutuality and neverending joy and happiness. The bright morning star mentioned in Revelations is the star of enlightenment. It is the star which presided over the birth of Christ, and the awakening of the Buddha. It is the planet Venus, on the one hand, as a physical form with all the associated allegory and archetype attached to Venus, but it's also an allegorical star of unity, and atonement (at one ment).

The only "devil" which exists now, isn't a red-horned beast residing somewhere in reality, with legions of demons or fallen angels, but a systemic mental illness, or at best/worst, an evil empire who's house, being divided against itself, cannot stand the test of time and therefore has fallen and oh what a fall it had.

I like what my mother said about "evil" and she was very wise and powerful and spent many years working to try to heal its wounds within the church, and that is this. "evil" in her experience, did not so much reside in individual people, who can easily be cleared of it (like I said she was powerful), but in SYSTEMS, and in her experience it can actually move within systems of human orginizational dynamics, that is, as I might now add - until it has nowhere left to hide and nowhere left to run, at which point it tips and slides headlong into the abyss (oblivion).

And to those who would ridicule these understandings and comprehensions, as the rantings of "religious" ignorance or "new age" nonsense, I have this to say - get out of the way if you have nothing helpful to add or offer. Sounds harsh I realize, but it's true. There's no place in the new world for the cynic, since the cynic is just another aspect of the problem and not the solution, which is now freely available and circling the noosphere at the speed of light.

montalk.net...

montalk.net...

There is negativity alright, real beings. And they farm us. The pdf above, it has really good info on what to do about all of it.

Mind Over Matter starting on page 31-36, though on from there about the synchronicities and guidance signs is good.

page 40 on about Higher Negative Forces, The Control System and How to Stop this gain control.

How they farm us.

Keep us low frequency through all sorts of tensions, fights, computer problems, missing keys. Murphy is not a friendly imp.

Basic ideas of attraction and intending, and raising frequency and how to stop negative things from happening.