What Martial Art Is Right For You? Which Ones Are Effective? What Style TO Learn?

Agree with the OP pretty much. MMA is the way to go it pretty much has stripped out all the fluff and proven what works in actual combat. Add to that some of the street techniques you cannot use in the cage and that is about as good as it gets.

The Gracie's started the UFC to prove Brazilian Jui Jitsu was the best art. What they inadvertently ended up proving was Bruce Lees philosophy that no one style was the best but a combination of the best of many styles is best.

I have trained for over 35 years and seen it all. Forget about the grandmaster this and this style is the best that hype. 90% of that crap doesn't work in the real world. I started out in traditional Martial arts (TMA) as a kid like many people. MMA is the future and evolution of martial arts. Some of the traditions from TMA are good and some of the techniques but most of it is crap or subpar at best. As an example most TMA Knife defense techniques do not work and will get you seriously injured or killed. I learned a bunch of those until one day we decided to test them out. We all wore old white teeshirts and used a red marker as the knife and took turns being the attacker and defender in a live training session of random off the cuff attacks we all would have probably died had it been a real knife.

I have seen all kinds come into the gym thinking thier art was superior. Most of them never came back. A few stayed to learn real world stuff when they learned the hard way their super duper ninja death punch art did not work.

Anyway take it for what its worth. I am not going to argue about it this is just my experience and many others I know. I still train with an MMA team and am more well rounded then when I was younger.

Originally posted by WeekendWarrior
reply to post by daaskapital

 

One thing I have noticed is that european style of muay thai uses more fists than a actual Thai-fighter. Its almost like the opponent gets pissed in thailand if he gets punched to the head? Is it a cultural thing?
And european thai-fighters does use the punch very effectively(I have had honour to be receiving some in the ring

).
Not to mention the kicks..they are epic and thats why MMA-fighters are using mostly those.

Oh definitely, most modern Muay Thai incorporates boxing techniques to make a more all round, better art. In Muay Thai, punches score the least, so Thai-Fighters tend to foight more with the kicks (score most points), elbows and knees. Oh most definitely, Thai-Fighters are very well versed, and the punching techniques are awesome. It is just that most of the technique was originally designed to set up kicks, moreso than deal damage, but as i have stated, the style changed with the time.

Oh, and yes, the kicks are very hard
I love recieving them, until my leg stops working. The head kicks are awesome too Love trading kicks with the opponent.

reply to post by daaskapital
But still a knockout is a knockout, even with a fist (no need to count points)

And yes, it reminds me sometimes of a pingpong when thai-fighters start to trade kicks, I love it, started my "career" with Muay Thai and boxing.
Stay safe and unbroken

Originally posted by WeekendWarrior
reply to post by daaskapital

 

But still a knockout is a knockout, even with a fist (no need to count points)

And yes, it reminds me sometimes of a pingpong when thai-fighters start to trade kicks, I love it, started my "career" with Muay Thai and boxing.
Stay safe and unbroken

True
Yes, it very much reminds me of ping pong as well, backwards and forwards. Very awesome to watch and very fun to participate in

You too stay safe

reply to post by WeekendWarrior

And for you, most of arts that use punching(boxing, kickboxing, savate, muay thai..etc.) they all generate the power to punch from below. From leg to hips, through the midsection and through your arm into the fist. At least when done correctly. So I didnt quite understand your meaning in your post. I understood you said any other martia art uses only the power of the arm to punch? Thats redicilous, but if I got it wrong somehow, then sorry And no offence meant here.

No offence taken

I understand that in punching / boxing etc you ultimately generate power from hips below... But it isn't really obvious in all boxers who basically train only their arms to move .. and no hip movement at all.. In Hsing-i you are taught to loosen your hips and shoulders so that you end up generating power "solely" from there .. In that sense, I have to say Hsing-i is superior because you are trained to loosen up your joints and generate extremely powerful punches just from hip movements and a tension free arm... I suppose when you throw punches while boxing, your arms are fully tensed up ? If that's not the case, then I commend you for it

The thing is, the deeper you learn internal Martial arts like Hsing-i, the more control / mastery you have over "Qi" or Chi .. And that throws up completely bizarre and seemingly unphysical fighting abilities .. Besides all the health benefits .. Dr. Ed Hampton I talked about , like those youtube chinese masters, can throw you off just by the slightest of punches ... And he is 60+ years old I think .. I don't see any kickboxer who would be able to do these kind of feets just by learning external martial arts... No offence meant here, but simply sharing what I know to be true .. Do the research yourself

reply to post by skywalker_


I hear what you are saying about the Chi or Ki aye. All that really is is breathing technique. there is actually a martial art that is based upon it. Proper breathing allows you to accept a strike and to deliver a strike more powerfully and efficiently. There is a Master here in Erie, Master Capela, and he is one master I know of that can take a cup check to the groin without a cup on. He uses his breathing to descend his balls and that allows him to accept a groin strike. It was common for the 'old school' practitioners to to be able to take strikes like that, they often trained with bamboo. OUCH!

ETA: you already know about Chi ; quick response w/o reading entire post.

Originally posted by PaxVeritas
reply to post by SplitInfinity

 

That's also known as a "blast" or "Wing Tsun" punch series.

If you learn it and get it down, it's friggin brutal. One of my favorite moves is the blast.

Are you refering to the Chain Punching Technique? If you are...yes...in the right place and space...it is devestating to an apponent. Gabriel Gonzaga introduced me to it from a Video he had and we practiced it against each other. If done right...and it must be done VERY FAST....it will completely disorent another and they WILL start loosing ground. I know Gabriel because he helped me with an appearence after he won the titile at one of my Charities and the KIDS LOVED HIM AND HIS GUY'S he brought with him to demonstrate self defense. It was a big hit.

He had only known me from my celebrity and my family buisnesses but did not know I was trained so on one particular example for the kids...he picked me as a demo guy...mostly because of my size and he thought it would be funny....so I surprised him and he couldn't put me down and I used a technique that put him in an rm lock that NO ONE can get out of...at least if they don't want a broken arm. The kids died laughing!

After that we started to spar at his buisness which was near one of my families...first time...he got me good...and it hurt....but there was NO WAY I was going to show it hurt...so I threw him and it surprised the Hell out of him...so then he relized he didn't have to hold back and we went at it for about an Hour and 15 minutes straight....that is a LONG TIME and I was hurting for days. He is teaching me his specialty Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and I am teaching him some techniques which are Nerve Strikes...VERY DANGEROUS...so we go slow.

I thought it was very nice that A Guy like that would take the time for the Kids as I run several charities that have to do with getting kids involved with members of the community Buisnesses, Police, Fire, Lions Club, Politicians in a way to show them that SOMEONE CARES. We put up Christmas Trees and have the kids decorate them and have programs with Police and Fire that are interesting instead of making the Kids feel like they are being lectured. It works and Vandalism is down to almost ZERO and we get a band and DJ and we get donated Pizza and Icecream....all is donated and I will not allow anyone to profit from it. I enjoy doing it very much.

A kid that will help you build something together....will never be a kid that will destroy something. Kids just need to know that SOMEONE CARES. I used to be in Scouts and as I grew older...I still donated time...and before I EVER started teaching MEN to SURVIVE...I taught it to kids...and there are no BAD KIDS...just BAD PARENTS AND TEACHERS. I taught a 17 year old Black kid from the worst part of town how to swim...he threatened to slice my throut with his knife....I stuck with him and gained RESPECT...I never asked for respect or demanded it...but I gained or erned respect from this kid...more a man...because after he threatened me...I told him...OK...come at me...if you can draw Blood on any part of my body I will leave you alone...if I take that knife away from you...YOUR ASS IS MINE AND YOU ARE GOING TO LEARN HOW TO SWIM! He never came at me...and he showed up at the dock on time the next morning because I had arroused curiosity in him. He was smart but tried to act dumb...I knew he was smart...and when I issued the challenge to him I looked in his eyes and he looked in mine and he knew that I knew...I wasn't trying to start a fight...I was trying to help him...and he also knew...I COULD TAKE AWAY THAT KNIFE! Kids like this grow up in a street system of respect. If you talk about the Cops or Jail...they could care less...if you threaten them...same thing....if you CHALLENGE THEM...they cannot say no...nor can they loose face....so in the end...he told his followers....I WANTED TO LEARN HOW TO SWIM...which was true...no sence in killing the guy who can teach me. THAT is how RESPECT is EARNED! You can't DEMAND RESPECT from a kid who has been traumatized all his life and figures one day soon he will be shot dead so why listen to anyone with such limited time? I showed him another way....he went into the Marines and made Gunnery Sergeant. He is out now and has two kids and a nice wife. Every now and then....I will see him at a local Jazz festival and we talk. He still says he could have cut me...but just a nick! LOL! Split Infinity

Originally posted by SprocketUK
I've enjoyed reading this thread, I have a question, though.
I've fenced quite a lot and am an ok level club fencer, I've noticed that its often more difficult to fight a newbie as they have little in the way of style or technique. That's not to say I never beat them, far from i, but its next to impossible to stop them getting a hit or two and maintaining my own style is also very difficult when they go all Errol Flynn. So I was wondering if the same applies when trying to translate one of the formal martial arts to a real life situation.

I an VERY interested in Fencing. I have a gret deal of training in Multiple forms of Martial Arts as well as a TRAINING that was developed by the Company called Nerve Strikes....very dangerous...and I am trained in multiple forms of weapons be it Guns, Knifes, Cannons, Mortars, Swords....but I have not alot of training in Fencing although I have been to a very wealthy friend of mines club and at first lost....alot....until I started getting the knack of it.

I want to ask you this...do you preferer a driving attack or do you prefer to let them come to you? Split Infinity

Originally posted by marvinthemartian

Originally posted by SplitInfinity

Originally posted by PaxVeritas
a friend of mine I just talked about had me over to watch a vid about a specific type of Street Fighting technique used in the close quarters of the back allys and roof tops of Hong Kong.
The specific technique with the greatest effect is called CHAIN PUNCHING. It is a series of left, right ,left, right...punches aimed directly infront of you at the face of your attacker. You move your arms and fists as fast as you can and overlap one with the other almost like pedaling a bike but more linear.

If done right...and this is for use in super close quarters...it forces your opponent backwards where once pinned against a wall or even better...if he trips over something because he is backing away and can't defend against the punches....you have him. Warning...Little Chinese Guys can get in under your chin line and strike your throut so if you are tall like me...to them at least...I am 6 ft. 1 in....you have to sometimes use your knees to keep them from getting in under your jaw. Split Infinity

Chain punching is the basic form of attack in Wing chun,it is or should be taught from the first lesson,it is extremely effective and hard to avoid or counter.All punches are aimed at the throat and when perfected you can land six to eight punches a second.
WC is a close quarter fighting system which nulifies high kicks by closeing the gap quickly,it is an anti graple system which makes it very difficult for an opponent to lock/hold/throw or take you down.
WC is a system of fighting not a sport,all strikes are aimed at the throat,eyes,back of the head,neck,clavicle,floating ribs and spine.All kicks are bellow the waist.
WC does not rely on streanth or a knockout blow,it concentrates on speed and multiple strikes.
Dont forget the best martial art for one may not suite another also the best martial art can be ruined by a bad teacher so be picky and go and watch as many classes as posible.

Remember at the end of the day its not about the man in the fight,its about the fight in the man.

Your last sentence rings true with me as I have to use my skills on occasion when things go wrong. The person who wins in a street fight is usually the person who is most dedicated and of course...has some training. I enjoy my bouts with my friend but I have been trained with a whole different attitude of use of my other skills. These are things I would not enjoy inflicting on a person as they are designed to maim or kill.

One thing I would like to clear up....I don't care how much training or fast a person is...there is a simple formula to a strike or blow...where the strike is directed and F=MA...or Force =Mass x Accelleration. So...a Heavier Fist or Hand...Striking at a quicker speed...will obtain greater Kinetic Force and that force placed in conjunction to a person who knows and is trained in Human Anatomy....well....this is a LETHAL COMBINATION.

I have seen very small Asian Men of Great Skill...and they make up for their lack of Mass by increasing Accelleration....the problem is...unless they intend or are trained to understand anatomy and intend a Killing Blow...and this is usually not the case...a Strike against a person like me or one of my team...is going to hit alot of muscle that is inbetween the skin and the nerve or internal organ. This givs them a distict disadvantage even if they are highly trained.

I know for a fact by an example...I was struck by an Asian Man who I could litterally see through his shirt where all his organs were and arteries and nerves....he chopped at my Larynx....before the strike...I tightened all the muscles in my neck and upper chest...the strike or his hands open chop...never hit anything other than Muscle.

This is why...it is good to have technique...but it is also good to have muscle protecting your vitals. Split Infinity

Originally posted by Ozvaldo
MMA hands down for defense purposes..

If you want to learn a martial art for discipline and exercise purposes, then any of the above you mentioned.

That's BS, the last thing to use in a fight for your life situation is "MMA" MMA is a sport its not true martial art...

What all martial arts share is the common understanding that repeating the same movement over and over and over again will turn it into a reflex... Combine martial arts that were designed to really hurt people like Pradal Serey which was watered down into Muay Thai and you'll be a dangerous individual...

MMA had rules, regulation, moves and zones you can't hit on the body... Practice this over and over and over and your reflex will be based on that...

Go in a fight against someone that was trained to not hold anything back and you'll be destroyed.... And before you say that it doesn't matter and in the middle the fight you can do whatever you want keep in mind the following...

The reason all martial art teach you to clear your mind until you reflect your opponent is because you must stop thinking... the more you think the more you slow down your reflects and reactions...

If you go in a fight only thinking of how you will hurt your opponent you hurt yourself... I been in more fights that I can even count some I remember some I was too drunk but when I must fight I just make perfect peace/calm inside of my mind/soul...

Its not hard to do, you just must accept that you can win, lose, get hurt or killed as part of the outcome... Once you've accepted this you understand that its useless to be scared, angry or anything else as this will just cloud your mind and render you less effective...

As an example you know when sometime something gets thrown in the direction of your eye and you never saw it coming or nothing yet your eyelid close just in time for it not to hit you in the eye??? Happens lots when I grind stuff or cut things with the saw...

Had you sat there being worried of not getting something in your eye you would be blind by now...

Your brain is like a computer, the more you process stuff the more you slow down the overall processing power... Free your mind of fears and doubts and its like cleaning your PC of spywares... it'll be blazing fast...

Now I'm not saying to head into a fight without thinking what your doing at all but I mean you must find your balance and not let your mind come in the way for your reactiveness otherwise your going to get defeated...

Also take in consideration every fighter as his good and bad days plus luck counts too... Doesn't matter how good you are it just takes one and the lights are going to dim a bit

reply to post by SplitInfinity

It's more fluid for me. I get lost in the moment and find my style changes to best make use of the openings in my oppo's technique. That said, if I'm fencing sabre, then I do better if I just let my aggression loose and attack like a loon. :-) that's the nature of sabre, though I guess.

Epee generally rewards a more measured approach. (There is still a place for pressing your opponent though).

Mind you, ask 10 fencers, you'll get 10 answers.

Originally posted by _R4t_
What all martial arts share is the common understanding that repeating the same movement over and over and over again will turn it into a reflex... Combine martial arts that were designed to really hurt people like Pradal Serey which was watered down into Muay Thai and you'll be a dangerous individual...

Oh no, a Cambodian elitist. Please, Muay Thai did not come from Cambodia. Muay Thai is a watered down version of Muay Boran (Chaiya, Korat etc), which in turn originated from the Thai art of Krabi Krabong. The history of Muay spans thousands of years, being one of the oldest forms to date. It is now increasingly hard however to find a proper Muay Boran camp.

reply to post by _R4t_

That's BS, the last thing to use in a fight for your life situation is "MMA" MMA is a sport its not true martial art...

Most Idiotic statement I have heard on this thread. I was wondering when some knob would spout it... That's like saying shooting is a sport so its not real... Sigh!

MMA is proven in combat. Anyway thanks for the laugh..

Originally posted by _R4t_

Originally posted by Ozvaldo
MMA hands down for defense purposes..

If you want to learn a martial art for discipline and exercise purposes, then any of the above you mentioned.

That's BS, the last thing to use in a fight for your life situation is "MMA" MMA is a sport its not true martial art...

What all martial arts share is the common understanding that repeating the same movement over and over and over again will turn it into a reflex... Combine martial arts that were designed to really hurt people like Pradal Serey which was watered down into Muay Thai and you'll be a dangerous individual...

MMA had rules, regulation, moves and zones you can't hit on the body... Practice this over and over and over and your reflex will be based on that...

Go in a fight against someone that was trained to not hold anything back and you'll be destroyed.... And before you say that it doesn't matter and in the middle the fight you can do whatever you want keep in mind the following...

The reason all martial art teach you to clear your mind until you reflect your opponent is because you must stop thinking... the more you think the more you slow down your reflects and reactions...

If you go in a fight only thinking of how you will hurt your opponent you hurt yourself... I been in more fights that I can even count some I remember some I was too drunk but when I must fight I just make perfect peace/calm inside of my mind/soul...

Its not hard to do, you just must accept that you can win, lose, get hurt or killed as part of the outcome... Once you've accepted this you understand that its useless to be scared, angry or anything else as this will just cloud your mind and render you less effective...

As an example you know when sometime something gets thrown in the direction of your eye and you never saw it coming or nothing yet your eyelid close just in time for it not to hit you in the eye??? Happens lots when I grind stuff or cut things with the saw...

Had you sat there being worried of not getting something in your eye you would be blind by now...

Your brain is like a computer, the more you process stuff the more you slow down the overall processing power... Free your mind of fears and doubts and its like cleaning your PC of spywares... it'll be blazing fast...

Now I'm not saying to head into a fight without thinking what your doing at all but I mean you must find your balance and not let your mind come in the way for your reactiveness otherwise your going to get defeated...

Also take in consideration every fighter as his good and bad days plus luck counts too... Doesn't matter how good you are it just takes one and the lights are going to dim a bit

Sorry, but the majority of your post was BS.

MMA - is a martial art, using a 'mixture' of martial arts + other full contact sports. It competes basically the same as any martial art except you can actually strike in 'more' places.

Also to be a mixed martial artist, you will have to practice it's disciplines in the correct way in order to achieve excellence in them - which would involve clearing your mind, peace calm etc as you mentioned.

Yes MMA does have rules (like any martial art in competition) regulations (like any martial art in competition) and moves and zones (like any other martial arts in competition)

As for practicing these limitations over and over, and the final result will leave you with having 'limited reflexes'?
That my friend is BS too. If you are learning one of the martial art disciplines you will taught and shown killer moves, you just can't use them in competition - obviously.

As for Pradal Serey - which is not watered down Muay Thai - it just has diferent stances and uses the elbow a bit more. You put one of those up against a MMAist? He would get taken down in seconds and grounded and pounded - Would he not???
See that's the thing, If you put a 'true' Martial artist as you say, who's mind is 'completely' cleared and has no fear, up against a MMAist... Yes he could probably do some damage no doubt, but then he would get taken down and have is face caved in or an arm broken, or choked out in seconds.

Yes, I have had many fights from a young age, and am disciplined in Karate, Muay Thai, boxing & MMA. I have also studied fighting from a young age and still do.

MMA is not just all about the damage you can 'inflict' which seems to be what you think is the most important, it also about the damage you can 'prevent' being inflicted by simply knowing a multitude of disciplines.

So the bottom line;

The for self defense purposes in every day life, you would be MUCH better off being disciplined in MMA than most other martial arts - As I said in my previous post.

Originally posted by SprocketUK
reply to post by SplitInfinity

 

It's more fluid for me. I get lost in the moment and find my style changes to best make use of the openings in my oppo's technique. That said, if I'm fencing sabre, then I do better if I just let my aggression loose and attack like a loon. :-) that's the nature of sabre, though I guess.

Epee generally rewards a more measured approach. (There is still a place for pressing your opponent though).

Mind you, ask 10 fencers, you'll get 10 answers.

I was first asked by a friend to go to his club and try...I declined...at first...even though I had only dabled with Fencing...when people who know me only by my other two jobs and not my third...where I am trained in a variaty of things...I tend to do a little too well as I was once asked by a High School buddie years after we had seen each other to but on the Gloves and go a few rounds for fun...I accidentaly scared him and he kind of distanced himself from me as he was very good and Boxing is just something a dable in...so I worry.

When I finally went with my other friend...I found Fencing to be much more challenging and I have developed a taste for it.

Funny though...I was dragged to a Medeval Fair...and I am not the Dungeons and Dragons type...but a Girl was involved so...I went. They had a few guys who were using fake swords and you pay $10 to take them on and whomever gets to 5 body strikes first wins a fairly cool Dragon/Crystal Display piece....of course no one ever wins this thing which is probably around $300.00 retail. I watched the guys go before me and I noticed they all made the mistake of not protecting their legs so the guys that worked there would be 3 or 4 strikes up on anyone by simply striking at a knee or calf or any part of the leg or ass.

So I got my turn and I acted like I didn't know what end of a sword should be used...they were hard plastic. The guy immediatly went for my right knee...I shifted weight last second and got the back of his neck. Of course the Girl I am with is off somewhere because she is looking at overpriced chains. The Guy who works there gives me a look and now he is in it for real. I don't know if you have ever been to one of these but the employees have their own little world of EGO and who is the best...this guy was supposedly the best and after I was ahead 3 strikes to nothing...a crowd started to form...then someone recognized me because I play in a Band....and the croud got bigger.

I wanted the girl I was with to see me beat this guy so I played with him for a while...still no sign of Miss Beautiful. So I let him get me on the chest...this idiot started to taunt me and put his head out and pull it back like a boxer screwing around...all the while saying things like you got lucky...you got nothin! That's when I regreted giving him the one point. I dispatched him in about a minute. I got all sorts of pats on my back from people who work there telling me what a jerk this guy is and how happy they were that a Non-Knight...LOL! Beat him. Of course My Girl was no where to be found! So they gave me this huge Pewter and Crystal thing and as I was walking away...the guy yells to me...I just wanted someone to win that thing it's been around forever...if we were doing this for MONEY...then you would get your ass kicked!

I usually don't respond to taunts but this guy REALLY was an ass! Miss Beautiful finally showed up right then...so I said...OK...how much? He said $5 a strike...10 minutes. I said...how about $10 a strike and 5 minutes? % minutes and $70 richer plus this huge dragon thing I gave to My Girl...she was thrilled....he slunk away...and he had to borrow $20 from the front ticket collector to pay me! I don't like to embarrass people but...I REALLY LIKED THIS! Tell me how much a Fencing Sabre is going for? Split Infinity

Nice one, mate. If you like that style of fencing, then there are loads of places that do the old style with backswords, bucklers etc. Just have a Google.
My sabre cost me 50 quid a few years ago from duellist in London.
I should just use a club one first incase you really don't like fencing sabre. It ain't everyone's idea of fun.

Edited to add this link. www.memag.net...

All forms of European martial artistry. You may like the sword craft especially.

Originally posted by fedeykin

Originally posted by PaxVeritas

Originally posted by jroberts227
reply to post by PaxVeritas

 

Food for thought. I have experience with boxing, Judo, and a few others. All styles aside, in the end it is the one who is meanest that will win. Doing whatever it takes to win is the key...

Yes...that is the reality I've seen too.

I agree. But, here is one thing that can make pure will to win useless. If you can't move fast enough or don't have enough strength, the will alone will not help, and neither is plain being mean either.

edit on 1-2-2012 by fedeykin because: (no reason given)

Very true. Pure will is useless without some technique. Just as pure technique is useless without will. It is a combination of the two that will produce a winner.

It has been my experience that while there are a lot of people who have some basic ability, and even the will up to a certain point, not that many are willing to cause serious injury, if necessary, to win. In our present world, that is a difficult line to cross.

Having said that, I do know that people are able to go far beyond what the believe they can if circumstances put them on the spot.

I'm not talking about professional fighters here, just people. Professionals have the edge in that they have the technique, the ability to use it, and the mental conditioning to understand the effect of damage they can reasonably absorb and the damage they can inflict.

My dad always gave advice, as he saw it, that could help out: 1) Size isn't everything, it's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog; 2) Control your fear, everyone has fear, appearing to have none can cause hesitation in your opponent; 3) Anyone can start a fight, but not everyone can finish one, you have to be willing to go as far as it takes to ensure that you have won (hence my comment on the meanest will win); 4) For every tough individual there is, there is always someone who is tougher; and finally, 5) It's a sorry pair of legs that let a face take a beating.

I'm not a professional fighter, or anything like that, although I have had training on how to fight and how to win as part of my job. I have a few times had to use my training, and while it certainly wasn't pretty, and I didn't come away unscathed, I managed to walk away whole.

Just my two cents worth...

A few of my students have said that they have freinds in MMA or Boxing and would like to spar against them, how would you go about handling these type of fighters? I say first of all, Boxers are relatively easy to handle. In Ninjutsu, we have many different postures called "Kamae". Kamae are used for baiting an enemy, this is using strategy. You take away their choices and lure them in to do what you want, therefore you have a better idea of how to counter. For Boxers, We can use our "Ichimonji No Kamae" or #1 posture. This involves the lead arm and hand pointing almost strait out to the enemies eye. You cannot just stand there whith your arm out. You must be aggressive in interrupting the boxer. Boxers must get in close and their stance is that of closed in defense. Using Ichimonji no kamae, forces them to come around the arm if they don't want to loose an eye. It's easy to counter then.
To#sugu Takamatsu (the last true Ninja) was the teacher of the current Grandmaster of Ninjutsu, Soke-Masaaki Hatsumi. Known as " The Mongolian Tiger" for his feirocity, Takamatsu Sensei was one of the greatest martial artists who ever lived and was the Grandmaster of 9 different Martial art systems. In the early 1900's he left Japan and traveled to Shanghai to test out his skill. He fought in many life or death matches against Chinese boxers, American and European Wrestlers and boxers (who were much larger than his 5" tall frame), and beat them all. He tested out his knowlege and found that Ichimonji no Kamae was very effective in keeping boxers at a distance and countering. He also said that it's important to know how to roll in as many directions as possible. He said the only time he came close to being beaten was against a Brittish boxer (who broke his arm) but ended up doing pretty well against him in the end.
For MMA fighters, they key is to attack them before they can get ahold of you. If they do manage to grapple or take you down, it's over. Be aggressive, not defensive. So many people fight defensively and it gets to me when they just don't realize that they have to be aggressive to turn things around. If you do manage to get taken down in a hold, we have the "Koppo Ken"-Thumb knuckle fist and the "Happa Ken"-8 leaves fist(open hand strike to the ears) When you drive the Koppo ken into someones ribs or any muscular structure on the body, it's quite painful. Takamatsu Sensei also said that Happa Ken is effective against wrestlers. Just adding my 2 cents. Have a good one!

Originally posted by Mccw2003
A few of my students have said that they have freinds in MMA or Boxing and would like to spar against them, how would you go about handling these type of fighters? I say first of all, Boxers are relatively easy to handle. In Ninjutsu, we have many different postures called "Kamae". Kamae are used for baiting an enemy, this is using strategy. You take away their choices and lure them in to do what you want, therefore you have a better idea of how to counter. For Boxers, We can use our "Ichimonji No Kamae" or #1 posture. This involves the lead arm and hand pointing almost strait out to the enemies eye. You cannot just stand there whith your arm out. You must be aggressive in interrupting the boxer. Boxers must get in close and their stance is that of closed in defense. Using Ichimonji no kamae, forces them to come around the arm if they don't want to loose an eye. It's easy to counter then.

If the student were using "Ichimonji No Kamae" on a Muay Thai fighter i feel it wouldn't have any affect at all. As in MT, we are taught that if their lead arm is to straight, pointing more towards yourself, then you have the chance to knock the arm down for a moment, and in that time frame, kick them in the unguarded position on their head. I am ignorant to most teachings of Ninjitsu, so please elaborate if there is such a Kamae to combat Thai fighters.

That being said though, i would really love to try Ninjitsu.

reply to post by skywalker_


you dont have to move your hips to get power with systema spetsnaz punching you dont have too,but you can to get more power with your hips. check this video out. I have had this punch done to me and it made my knees buckle and it took me severals months to learn how to do it because of coming from a back ground of kungfu(similar to karate punches which pushes the punch when you do that 50% of your power goes forward and 50% goes backwards. Mikhail Ryabko has also demonstrated this punch by standing on one leg to show it is not the hips that give it power