MPD/DID and Quantum Psychiatry

Before anyone goes off on MK-Ultra stuff, please keep it out of the discussion as it really has no room in what I'm asking/talking about. Second, it doesn't matter if anyone believes in the existence of the diagnosis of Dissociative Identity Disorder (Multiple Personality Disorder) or not.....for the purpose of this discussion, go along with the fact that it IS a recognized medical condition.

I was diagnosed with MPD/DID when I was12 from horrific childhood trauma/torture at the hands of my first stepdad for 8 years. I've had natural integration and am down to 9 parts instead of the 27 I had when first diagnosed.

I am also a HUGE lover of science and quantum physics (my minor in college).

With that preface, here is my thought/question....

Quantum physics teaches us that multiple worlds, parallel universes are possible and exist. Consciousness is "reality"...what the "observer" experiences is consciousness. When one personality is present, the others just go "away" to their own reality. When they are "present", they are just in THIS reality. This is why I came up with the idea that there should be "Quantum Psychiatry" to study where the other personalities/realities "go" (for lack of a better world" when they are in their own world yet not in the reality that we know. The same goes for Autism (as I also have aspergers). I thought I invented this concept and then when I looked it up online there is ONE medical school studying/developing a Quantum Psychiatry specialty.

My question....what do you think of my hypothesis that each "personality" could be living in their own universe/reality/dimension and can come back and forth into this reality as if through a wormhole? ....that with people like me, our brains are using parts not used by 99.5% of the public that open our awareness to things unseen all around us like other realities and actually lets us experience them all at once?

I know my medical condition and I've studied theoretical physics since I was in middle school. It finally dawned on me that the two go hand and hand and I decided to make it my life's work to somehow "prove" it instead of just show how it happens in theory.

Does anyone have any thoughts on supporting my theory? Again, please do not flame me or anything because you might not believe that MPD/DID is real. I know how I am and I know how many other people are. I don't care what anyone chooses to label it. Keep the discussion based in science, not opinion and science shows that it i a medical condition just like cancer, heartattacks, etc. I'd really love to hear if anyone else would see how I tie it all together and can offer support to my theory since I can't really talk about it with my friends and family (my average I.Q. score is 179 and I think on levels that my friends can't understand).

Thanks in advance for a good, positive, scientific discussion.

Honestly, I think that's a great theory! I have never known anyone (that I know of) who suffers from this, and I am only versed in quantum mechanics theories on a very surface level, so I don't have a lot of meat to add to the discussion. But I think you're idea is definitely soundly-based. Hopefully when you become a quantum physicist, you can prove it

reply to post by PurpleSun


A couple things:

The many worlds interpretation (mwi) of quantum mechanics (qm) is one of several promising metaphysical interpretations of qm results that is consistent with the observations and established underlying math. It's just a candidate though; we have no evidence for parallel universes, and we have no evidence which preferentially confirms the mwi over the other mainstream interpretations of qm. (i.e. The Copenhagen interpretation)

It's a bit strong to say qm teaches us that many worlds and parallel universes exist.

Second, assuming the mwh is true, it is also true that the universes don't communicate. Matter, energy, and information cannot pass between them. Your personalities can't pass between universes without violating several of the core principals of modern physics.

Finally, for the sake of parsimony, you should at least consider neurobiological explanations first. So far, mental illness - like all psychological phenomena - are all turning out to be explicable by understanding the underlying biology and how it can become dysfunctional. It would come as quite a surprise if it turns out this trend does not continue, and that in order to understand DID we will have to appeal to quantum physics and parallel universes.

Also, what - exactly - would be passing between universes? "A personality?" What would that mean if we were to think about it in any detail?

reply to post by OnceReturned


thanks for your points. I suppose what would be transferring is the consciousness of each "personality". The energy can transform through the realities/dimensions/universes thanks to Bells theory. Sorry I left that out. I've been thinking about this for about 7 years now and that is one of the foundations of it. Sometimes I can't see the forest for the trees so I apologize for leaving that out.

reply to post by PurpleSun


'fraid i can't help much re quantum physics

however i can point out a few things

your therapist or whatever must be pretty enlightened
it was my understanding that MPD is not officially recognized and is now considered a form of schizophrenia*
or repackaged as dissociative disorder

i could be wrong and perhaps the concept is coming back in vogue*

after all the idea that we can be more than 1 person is a threat to an ego-based/monolithic society
[you are probably familiar with various court cases where MPD was used as a defense, that's when the concept began to be censored, not to mention much of this was to coverup MKULTRA and similar programs**]

look into the practice of Metamorphosis as explained in Chaos Magic Theory [P.Caroll]

Identity

Chaos Magic does not really contain the notion of a soul. Certainly there is no 'true' you. The closest there is, is Kia. Think of it as a spark of essence or soul. The animating force. It does not contain any aspects of your identity however (as a side note, I also identify Kia with Will, but this is a personal interpretation). There is nothing about you that is sacred. If you are a liberal, than you must recognise that a different upbringing would have resulted in your being a conservative. If you are not a racist, know that had things been different, you might be a racist now. If you are bitter and depressed, this is not How Things Must Be - there's no law in the universe that says you could never have been joyful. In Chaos Magic, because the person is also a microcosm of chaos, the personality itself is seen as fluid and changeable. A variant belief among some Chaotes is that the individual possesses multiple 'selves' possessing different qualities, having different functions etc. For example, Carroll occasionally refers to the 'magician self,' as the personality that comes to the fore for magical workings and so forth. As magicians, Chaotes seek power over their own identity - not to forge one identity, but to have the freedom of options. Chaos magic is essentially about freedom. Peter Carroll includes 'metamorphosis' in Liber Null and Psychonaut as part of the basic curriculum.

www.ecauldron.net...
Liber Null & Psychonaut books.google.com.pr... #v=onepage&q=Liber%20Null%20%26%20Psychonaut&f=false

*the Big Book of Mental Illness, as i refer to it is often edited according to the political tides[whatever's convenient at the moment example

I found dramatic racial and gender shifts in persons diagnosed with schizophrenia at Ionia during the 1960s—so much so that schizophrenia's racial and gendered transformation became the central narrative of my book. This shift became apparent very early in my research. Before the 60s, Ionia doctors viewed schizophrenia as an illness that afflicted nonviolent, white, petty criminals, including the hospital's considerable population of women from rural Michigan. Charts emphasized the negative impact of "schizophrenogenic styles" on these women's abilities to perform their duties as mothers and wives.

To say the least, these patients were not seen as threatening. This patient wasn't able to take care of her family as she should, read one chart; another, This patient is not well adjusted and can't do her housework; and another, She got confused and talked too loudly and embarrassed her husband.

By the mid- to late-1960s, however, schizophrenia was a diagnosis disproportionately applied to the hospital's growing population of African American men from urban Detroit. Perhaps the most shocking evidence I uncovered was that hospital charts "diagnosed" these men in part because of their symptoms, but also because of their connections to the civil rights movement. Many of the men were sent to Ionia after convictions for crimes that ranged from armed robbery to participation in civil-rights protests, to property destruction during periods of civil unrest, such as the Detroit riots of 1968. Charts stressed how hallucinations and delusions rendered these men as threats not only to other patients, but also to clinicians, ward attendants, and to society itself. You'd see comments like Paranoid against his doctors and the police. Or, Would be a danger to society were he not in an institution.

www.psychologytoday.com...
The_Protest_Psychosis:_How_Schizophrenia_Became_a_Bl ack_Disease

i was pretty obsessed with the whole concept MPD since my early teens my studies and eventual practice
led to having up to 5 identities in college using method acting as a sort of "methodical madness"
though i have experienced disassociation since childhood [a la fred flintstone shrinking when chewed out] i always retained memory between identities and a faint borderline memory of my original persona
they're just masks [ask yourself who's wearing them]
** sorry to mention MKULTRA [why so sensitive?]

reply to post by DerepentLEstranger


MPD/DID has no relation to schizophrenia. Schizophrenia is a genetic disorder where MPD/DID is rooted in trauma and has no genetic disposition. Also, it is the most extreme of the disorders on the dissociative spectrum as it is classified as a dissociative disorder.

I've been lucky/blessed that I've had the best doctors and therapists in the world work with me when I was 12 until now. If I didn't, I would be rocking in a corner like many others and probably not able to function. But I didn't want to be that way and worked my butt off. It wasn't any therapist that planted this idea in my head...it was just my scientific brain looking for understanding and I took the patters of MPD/DID and placed them on Quantum mechanics and a lot of them overlapped and that's where the idea came from. = )


btw, the only reason i didn't want to talk about MK-Ultra in this thread is because it is irrelevant for the purpose of my idea and I want to stay on the topic and idea I mentioned. Trauma causes MPD/DID, period. It doesn't matter if it's through the hands of childhood abuse/torture or through a government program, it's all trauma as far as the brain and nervous system are concerned so the "cause" of the condition doesn't matter for the sake of this particular discussion, that's all. And I didn't want it to turn into a discussion about MK-Ultra since it's not the point of my theory = )

Interesting theory. I have come across one report a while ago in which parts of the brain do respond to some subatomic processes, not sure of the technicalities and limitations. There are also a lot of questions going around about the spirit, character and personality with some reports indicating that something is going on, but still very unclear.

Since it is not practical to put a person into a particle accelerator, one interesting study along these lines I would like to see involves kirlian photography, which provides a visualisation of the electromagnetic field surrounding a person. Is there a change in this field when there is a change in personality? How much and where? Something is changing when these different personalities swap.

The mind is like a hologram, and when you have MPD, it is because somehow your mind fragmented during the trauma usually. Each fragmented piece is a hologram within itself, so although he/she stays in your head, he/she is within his/her own world. So the question kind of is, where does the holographic mind reside?

Maybe I am just nuts though....

reply to post by PurpleSun


sorry ran out of space and had to edit also forgot to add that ones POV REALLY changes with different personas
also the schizo ref is what many psychotherapists were calling it back in the 90's when the idea was Verbotten

just wanted to point out that the condition can be controlled or even self induced
you need not seek what might be a false unity

also to point out the heretical notion that maybe you don't have a mental illness at all

just that certain authorities have labeled it as such

you seem to be doing well due to your own efforts as well

lol nor has your writing style changed [though it's to early in the thread to tell ]

I'm not sure but maybe your DID has opened up less used parts of the brain. Because the other personalities would have to either have their own "area" or "network" the brain for usage. Like overclocking a computer and as you assimilate more of yourself your brain would have more "RAM" to work with. But that's just one mans opinion.

But I doubt that your other personalities have there own little world otherwise why bother yours.

As for a new field of study into DID I like it. It would be worth a look like what do the other personalities do when your you.

Hopefully you'll stick around on ATS so we can pick your brains

P.S. your not the strangest person on ATS you stick around here long enough you'll see some really weird crap

reply to post by PurpleSun


Well, does Bell's theorem apply to consciousness? As far as science can tell, consciousness and the mind are properties of living brains. The mind is what the brain does, so you can't have "mind stuff" or "consciousness stuff" just flying around freely. The biological material of the brain associated with the alternate personality would have to physically integrate with your brain. It's hard to image how that would work.

Also, Bell's doesn't account for or even address communication between universes. In fact, stronger and more central theories in physics absolutely prohibit communication between universes. This issue will certainly be the greatest challenge to your theory. The cognitive and biological stuff has to be addressed and doesn't look promising, but the transfer of information between universes thing seems impossible in principal without overturning some of the most basic rules which have tremendous supporting evidence and enjoy acceptance by the entire community of professional physicists.

Where will you begin?

reply to post by PurpleSun


lol seems we're editing our post out of sync

OT

remember what i said regarding fred flinstone shrinking/disassociating

imagine him shrinking* so small he falls out of the universe
in a manner analogous to the formation of a black hole

that would be a case extreme trauma

*disassociating can also be seen/experienced as pulling away while your body stays in place
in my case i would experience something akin to extreme tunnel vision, i wanted to get away [but couldn't] from the situation so bad

Originally posted by kwakakev

Since it is not practical to put a person into a particle accelerator, one interesting study along these lines I would like to see involves kirlian photography, which provides a visualisation of the electromagnetic field surrounding a person. Is there a change in this field when there is a change in personality? How much and where? Something is changing when these different personalities swap.

As it happens, I personally have had countless EEG's as well as Procaine activated EEG's done to measure brainwaves when switching. It's practically impossible for someone to change all their measured brainwaves so this is the secret test that good psychiatrists give to help diagnose it. And yes, my brainwaves do change with different personalities. When i was younger, there was a neurologist named Dr. Rybeck in Bethesda, maryland that did this study and published it (it's available online). So yes, the field does change giving more support to my theory = )

Originally posted by DerepentLEstranger
reply to post by PurpleSun

 

lol seems we're editing our post out of sync

OT

remember what i said regarding fred flinstone shrinking/disassociating

imagine him shrinking* so small he falls out of the universe
in a manner analogous to the formation of a black hole

that would be a case extreme trauma

*disassociating can also be seen/experienced as pulling away while your body stays in place
in my case i would experience something akin to extreme tunnel vision, i wanted to get away [but couldn't] from the situation so bad

that type of dissociation is called "depersonalization". Also a dissociative disorder, it's next to MPD/DID on the dissociation spectrum in terms of how extreme it is. It's more common than a lot of people think. I just had a 2 month battle with it myself. It is traumatic and scary since you think you will never get out of it and you'll always be that way for the rest of your life. Something interesting, in looking around on YouTube to see if anyone ever put up a post about what depersonalization feels like, I found a video from the country of Denmark begging for Psychiatrists to come to the country and help those effected by it since they had almost none (if any).

I think this is a fairy interesting hypothesis and one worth persuing to make testable. I don't hold to the notion that there is no information transfer between the variety of universes as posited by the various multiple world hypothesis developed over the last few decades. Certainly the dissociative spectrum allows to using the brain's neurobiology in different ways than normal people, which would certainly be an avenue worth pursuing in researching the quantum mechanics alternate universe avenue.

Another Hypothesis I would like to put forward to you is taken from the notion of re-incarnation, this being an idea that some of the alters might be a personality that was developed in a previous life of your soul/spirit. Again, quantum mechanics might apply, certainly in a subjective temporal sense.

Originally posted by OnceReturned
reply to post by PurpleSun

 

Well, does Bell's theorem apply to consciousness? As far as science can tell, consciousness and the mind are properties of living brains. The mind is what the brain does, so you can't have "mind stuff" or "consciousness stuff" just flying around freely. The biological material of the brain associated with the alternate personality would have to physically integrate with your brain. It's hard to image how that would work.

Also, Bell's doesn't account for or even address communication between universes. In fact, stronger and more central theories in physics absolutely prohibit communication between universes. This issue will certainly be the greatest challenge to your theory. The cognitive and biological stuff has to be addressed and doesn't look promising, but the transfer of information between universes thing seems impossible in principal without overturning some of the most basic rules which have tremendous supporting evidence and enjoy acceptance by the entire community of professional physicists.

Where will you begin?

Such GREAT questions!! And most of them I have already covered in my own head about my theory. This whole theory gets VERY detailed and complicated because it goes into consciousness and "what is consciousness and how is it related to the nervous system"?

The information transfer between universes could (in my belief without any proof) be through a sort of wormhole - that wormhole would infact BE the human brain acting as a conduit. I have the ideas laid out, I just don't have the emperical proof for it all and honestly the emperical proof for it all may never be developed in 1,000 years. But I know I'm on to something. I just don't know all the details and need help filling in the blanks which is exactly why I really appreciate your thoughts!

While I haven't fully shared my entire theory here, I think that Quantum theories prove the existence of the illness. And maybe I'm wrong, but for some reason it just feels right and works out in my brain somehow....I just need to fill in some of the pieces. = )

I think your theory would explain alot.
People that seem to know about things for which they should not...maybe these personalities communicate and we just aren't conscious of it.
It would give better explanation to past life memories.
It might be the answer to what we think of as Astral Projective or OBE

Please dont laugh....but have you ever thought of leaving a note for your alter egoes???
I mean maybe they are all in the same place, but have no memory of each other?
Rather than going anywhere to a separate reality?(quantum or otherwise)
Maybe you can establish written communication with yourself this way...ask yourself what they think about it??
Please do not think i am being facetious....
I assume that they are separate entities who do not nessessarily know that they are part of you....so maybe this could be some kind of aproach.
Perhaps have some other agency hold the communication till you are definately not yourself?
No matter now i try to write this it sounds off to me, but i hope you can do something like this and get the answers you seek.
The only other aproach is to remain conscious in your own personality while you are somebody else.....
Hypnotism perhaps?

Originally posted by Overstuffed
I think this is a fairy interesting hypothesis and one worth persuing to make testable. I don't hold to the notion that there is no information transfer between the variety of universes as posited by the various multiple world hypothesis developed over the last few decades. Certainly the dissociative spectrum allows to using the brain's neurobiology in different ways than normal people, which would certainly be an avenue worth pursuing in researching the quantum mechanics alternate universe avenue.

Another Hypothesis I would like to put forward to you is taken from the notion of re-incarnation, this being an idea that some of the alters might be a personality that was developed in a previous life of your soul/spirit. Again, quantum mechanics might apply, certainly in a subjective temporal sense.

Thank you so much!! If i were allowed to have a medical license I would go back to medical school and develop this but it seems stupid for me to do so without the possibility of being a licensed Psychiatrist. I thought about pursuing it through a PhD and maybe I will. I don't know.

I've thought of the idea of alters being re-incarnates. For some reason one of my alters always been afraid of snow - even when i was little it reminded me of human ashes falling to the ground. Then she became fascinated/drawn to the holocaust when I was 8 or 9 and connected the ashes/snow to burning bodies in the camps which I had NEVER learned about at that age. She also spoke and could read Hebrew when I was 12 even though no one in my family is Jewish and I never had lessons and never exposed to it as far as I knew. When I was in college she started wondering if she was a little girl killed in the holocaust. No proof to it, and I'm not saying I do or don't believe it, but I do wonder and think about it. = )

Originally posted by Darkblade71
The mind is like a hologram, and when you have MPD, it is because somehow your mind fragmented during the trauma usually. Each fragmented piece is a hologram within itself, so although he/she stays in your head, he/she is within his/her own world. So the question kind of is, where does the holographic mind reside?

Maybe I am just nuts though....

naw! just a different POV really

also illustrates how a paradigm/model can be limiting as there is the implication that something is broken

here's another way of looking at it

"People live their lives bound by what they accept as correct and true. That's how they define "reality". But what does it mean to be "correct" or "true"? Merely vague concepts… their "reality" may all be a mirage. Can we consider them to simply be living in their own world, shaped by their beliefs?"