Hello Mr. president, Abortion Is Murder! Life Begins At Fertilization! That's A Fact [snip]!

Originally posted by paxnatus
About the stem cell issue, you are confused. Sucess has only come from using. ADULT
stem cells, none of which you speak of has occurred from FETAL stem cell research.

Pax

Embryonic stem cells appear to restore some vision to legally blind patient

Both adult and embryonic stem cells have different advantages and disadvantages, and both are suited for different tasks.
I would have no problem if ESCs were abandoned because their potential to cure diseases was found to not work. But I have a problem with obstructing ESC research due to ideological reasons. Let the science decide which is better. I think we will eventually use both.

reply to post by paxnatus


? As long as the tax break is still within a woman it is her body. You are contradicting yourself.

Originally posted by neo96
So abortion is a personal choice well the one getting murdered isn't making a choice.

Roe v wade is the law to murder but murder(war) is immoral!

The left really should be agianst abortion just think how many millionaires and billionaires you can tax 99% or how many people will be enslaved to social programs or how many people could vote Democrat.

But the again thanks to Margaret Sangers work population control of less desireable citizens they use to call that eugenics.

Today they call it hiding behind women' rights then they say they don't want Government in their personal lives but have no problem getting in personal lives themselves.

If roe v wade was the standard to live by then any other issue would be the same but it's not.

Call it what it is murder.

Edit to add:

This topic is insane the issue is insane the left will fight tooth and nail for a fish,a bug, a plant a tree but when it comes to a fetus oh hell no.

Pathetic.

edit on 25-1-2012 by neo96 because: (no reason given)

Because it's her body.

Because it's her body.

Because it's her body.

I promote this message because as much as I don't mind paying taxes. I don't want to pay for babies no one intended to have.

I find it interesting. The people who are rabidly for overturning RvW are the same people who hate paying taxes.
I doubt any of you would want to pay more to assist in the healthcare and education of these babies. No because the same people savagely against abortion also want less government and less taxes which simply means you have zero interest in helping support the child. So instead you would force someone not ready for the responsibility. Then what? Foster care?

You people..

Ya I said it. You #ing people.

The point is it is her #ing body. Get that understanding. Same would go for gay marriage. Stay the # out of peoples lives.

reply to post by Maslo


Yes Maslo, you are correct. However, using embryonic stem cells raises ethical questions again. Here is what
scientists have to say:

it ethical to obtain stem cells from human fetuses and umbilical cords? Fetal stem cell research may ethically resemble either adult or embryonic stem cell research and must be evaluated accordingly. If fetal stem cells are obtained from miscarried or stillborn fetuses, or if it is possible to remove them from fetuses still alive in the womb without harming the fetuses, then no harm is done to the donor and such fetal stem cell research is ethical. However, if the abortion of fetuses is the means by which fetal stem cells are obtained, then an unethical means (the killing of human beings) is involved. Since umbilical cords are detached from infants at birth, umbilical cord blood is an ethical source of stem cells.

Notice where they talk about the killing of human beings. This statement further proves that abortion is murder.

The Center for Bioethics and Human Dignity

Thanks,
Pax

reply to post by paxnatus


Value statements cannot be proven or disproven (as opposed to fact statements). They are opinions. I dont care is some scientists think killing of humans that do not contain mind is "unethical" or "murder". I dont agree with them, and there are many who dont agree too.

For your information, The Center for Bioethics and Human Dignity seems to be an ideologicaly driven institute (Christian), and they even have intelligent design advocates among them. They are biased.

Just thought i'd add to this...

My girlfriend had an abortion (3 months gone) about a year ago. Obviously it was unplanned and unwelcomed. And I still stand by the decision to terminate...Why should I bring a child into the world if I'm not financially able to support it properly, not able to give it the time-devoted upbringing it would deserve and possibly slightly resent?

On a more spiritual level... We all choose to come to the Earth plane for various reasons. I believe the child chooses it's parents - and that said - the child/soul itself wouldn't have bothered coming if it knew it was going to be terminated. Waste of effort, right? I don't think the physical body is "attached" to the spiritual body until a few weeks after birth. A child does not come to the Earth plane simply for the process of being "born". It can and sometimes will soley only be to serve as a platform of education for the parents and those involved. An "experience".

And finally. Those who are pro-life... We live in a planet that is so diverse and beautiful, littered with individual people from different races, backgrounds, religions and moral values. Just because your next door neighbour doesn't agree with your MORAL standards, this does not mean you have a right to run around the place screaming and shouting about it in an attempt to change peoples behaviour. Luckily, we don't operate like that.

DO NOT JUDGE. OBSERVE AND ACCEPT.

peace. x

reply to post by Gorman91


Does the community raise the children that are born & not wanted? NO. Do mothers that are not allowed for whatever reason to abort, and throw their newborns in the trash. Are they part of the community you speak of?

The problem is just that. The Community. The Community needs to stay the hell out of peoples business. What the woman across the street wants to do about her un-wanted pregnancy, IS NONE OF MY BUSINESS. Nor yours.

To your wife or sister or dear female friend voice your male opinion. But to all other women, mind your own business. When you are able to conceive, carry, and give birth to a child wanted or not. IMHO that's when we as men can open our mouths to the issue. Until then, just shut the hell up.

It has always amazed me that most who argue this subject, don't have children. I wonder why? So to all women involved in this thread. We men would not be her if not for you. If I have offended any woman in this thread please accept my sincere apology. Roe vs Wade= a privacy issue. The decision is the womans, not the community.

reply to post by openyourmind1262
It's killing an unborn child.

Anyone who "chooses" not to get involved then passively condones it.

Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by openyourmind1262

 

It's killing an unborn child.

Anyone who "chooses" not to get involved then passively condones it.

edit on 30-1-2012 by beezzer because: (no reason given)

Says who?

Originally posted by kidohno

Says who?

Um, me. beezzer.

Is the left side of your computer screened blocked?

reply to post by beezzer


It's just you wrote that statement as if it was fact which was quite strange.

My left screen isn't blocked.. but your left testicle probably is...Sounds like you need to get laid.

Originally posted by Maslo
reply to post by paxnatus

 

Value statements cannot be proven or disproven. They are opinions. I dont care is some scientists think killing of humans that do not contain mind is "unethical" or "murder". I dont agree with them, and there are many who dont agree too.

For your information, The Center for Bioethics and Human Dignity seems to be an ideologicaly driven institute (Christian), and they even have intelligent design advocates among them. They are biased.

I want abortion to become once again illegal because of what it is. It kills an innocent human being. At conception exists a single celled living human. This is fact. From conception forward it is growth and development directed by its fully human DNA. It is its own body distinct from the mother's. A DNA test proves this. So, what's your point? No religion, no opinion expressed. Are you able to respond likewise?

sorry i am pro-choice. i believe a woman has the right to decide to do with her own body.

Originally posted by DenyObfuscation

Originally posted by Maslo
reply to post by paxnatus

 

Value statements cannot be proven or disproven. They are opinions. I dont care is some scientists think killing of humans that do not contain mind is "unethical" or "murder". I dont agree with them, and there are many who dont agree too.

For your information, The Center for Bioethics and Human Dignity seems to be an ideologicaly driven institute (Christian), and they even have intelligent design advocates among them. They are biased.

I want abortion to become once again illegal because of what it is. It kills an innocent human being. At conception exists a single celled living human. This is fact. From conception forward it is growth and development directed by its fully human DNA. It is its own body distinct from the mother's. A DNA test proves this. So, what's your point? No religion, no opinion expressed. Are you able to respond likewise?

Why should I value a life just because it is biologically alive and has nucleotides ordered in a certain way?

I value other people not because they have human DNA or are merely biologically alive, but because they have a mind, which is the thing that makes us valuable.
No mind, no person, no victim, no crime.

Nothing wrong with killing human body that does not contain a mind.

Value statements cannot be proven or disproven. They are opinions.

reply to post by Maslo


Do you even believe what you say? Your entire response, according to your own words, opinions. This issue is about the legality of abortion, not what YOU value. You've already conceded life and humanity, what else do you have?

reply to post by DenyObfuscation


I am aware my response is an opinion. Thats all we have when it comes to value questions - opinions. You also presented "only" an opinion.

reply to post by openyourmind1262

Does the community raise the children that are born & not wanted? NO

Yes actually. Some do.

Do mothers that are not allowed for whatever reason to abort, and throw their newborns in the trash. Are they part of the community you speak of?

Those people should be shot in my opinion.

The problem is just that. The Community. The Community needs to stay the hell out of peoples business. What the woman across the street wants to do about her un-wanted pregnancy, IS NONE OF MY BUSINESS. Nor yours.

It is my business in my opinion. And least you think I'm a misogynistic dick, I know plenty of women whom would do the same. I'd almost say it is the opinions of those women that I got these ideas from.

lol. You teach a generation under socialist principles in college, what do you think is going to happen a generation later?

To your wife or sister or dear female friend voice your male opinion. But to all other women, mind your own business. When you are able to conceive, carry, and give birth to a child wanted or not. IMHO that's when we as men can open our mouths to the issue. Until then, just shut the hell up.

I'm a socialist in many ways, a fan of social justice, and therefore, I can never shut up, nor will I ever. And that comes from my hippie mother! lol!

It has always amazed me that most who argue this subject, don't have children. I wonder why? So to all women involved in this thread. We men would not be her if not for you. If I have offended any woman in this thread please accept my sincere apology. Roe vs Wade= a privacy issue. The decision is the womans, not the community.

LOL! Jane Roe, aka Norma McCorvey, is now pro life. Indeed, may people who have children who I know become pro life.

If I as a man have offended you or anyone, I really don't give a damn. I actually enjoy offending people. It's funny to see how emotional they get.

reply to post by Maslo


Law is not based on your values or opinions. In the realm of reality some actions are legal and some are illegal. I presented an extremely concise scientific basis for why abortion should again be legally termed murder. Rather than refute my position factually you respond with personal value statements. Do you have a relevant objection?

reply to post by DenyObfuscation

Law is not based on your values or opinions. In the realm of reality some actions are legal and some are illegal.

Legislation is an enforced opinion (of the legislators and those who vote/support them - often majority). Not a fact.
If legislation was a fact, it would not be possible to change it.

I presented an extremely concise scientific basis for why abortion should again be legally termed murder.

You presented and opinion and semantics. I dont care about the term used. The act of abortion is not immoral, IMHO.

Anyway, if you want to argue semantics, murder is defined as unlawful killing. Not all killing of humans is murder (unlawful). Killing in defense or killing of humans that are not persons such as embryos and braindead humans is not unlawful killing (murder). Definition of murder depends.

reply to post by jed001


And she chose to have sex. So she bares the consequences.