Is Reality Real? - Quantum Zeno Effect, page 1

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Topic started on 21-1-2012 @ 09:31 PM by WeAreAWAKE

I have often wondered about our reality and how we may be of something greater than we appear. I have heard speculation that we are something greater than just another biological being living on a rock that floats around in space. Tonight, I stumbled upon an article which prompted this thread.

There are some old sayings like “a watched pot never boils” and “if a tree falls in the forest, and there is no one there to hear it...does it make a noise?”. Then there is the Quantum Zeno Effect.

Cracked.com - Simple Overview - Scroll down to #2
Wikipedia.com - More Details

After reading the above link(s), I would like to hear some opinions on the following thoughts...and of course, any thoughts you may have.

Is it possible that human reality, that which we see, create and experience is only possible if we believe it exists? If we choose to believe in magic, does it become real...or if we choose not to believe in magic, does it cease to exist? And so goes the thought process for that which we create. Doesn't it seem a bit strange that many things we envision or imagine in stories or in movies are eventually invented? At the time of imagining them...they were impossible. But after imagining them...we made them exist. Could we unknowing have control over what is possible and impossible by sheer belief?

reply posted on 21-1-2012 @ 09:42 PM by saroncan

reply to post by WeAreAWAKE

Reality is what your dealt with in the manner of which you have conceived .Just like,you never really know what you look like until you have been told...

reply posted on 21-1-2012 @ 09:43 PM by miniatus

I'm familiar with the Quantum Zeno effect and it's one of my favorite things to read about.. but I can't say I understand it beyond that.. it makes no logical sense to this brain

reply posted on 21-1-2012 @ 09:45 PM by Grifter81

Then what came first? Reality or belief? If belief then what believed without a reality to believe it in?

Chicken and the egg............

reply posted on 21-1-2012 @ 09:49 PM by miniatus

I think we as a race are very arrogant in what we think we know.. "Laws of Physics" are a great example.. I don't think we are correct in our understanding of physics .. we're just defining laws based on observations we make .. things like this obviously force us to re-evaluate our understanding.

Something similar I hear talked about is how math is the universal language... says who? .. Math is a human invention .. as is our understanding of physics, our religion.. everything we understand is all just human systems to describe what we observe in the natural world.

There could be a planet out there somewhere .. where our "laws" of physics don't apply in any conceivable way.. fun to think about that

reply posted on 21-1-2012 @ 10:01 PM by WeAreAWAKE

Yeah...these kind of thoughts really open your mind to possibilities. My Daughter (15yo) just came out to say "good-night" and we were chatting about this. That brought me around to an obscure song by a band named Savatage and their song Believe.

YouTube Link

Hope that worked...if not...ITS HERE

reply posted on 21-1-2012 @ 10:06 PM by charles1952

reply to post by WeAreAWAKE

Of course, being confused by the simplest things, this leaves me completely baffled. That doesn't stop me from having an opinion, however.

From your Wikipedia source:

The quantum Zeno effect is a name coined by George Sudarshan and Baidyanath Misra of the University of Texas in 1977 in their analysis of the situation in which an unstable particle, if observed continuously, will never decay. One can nearly "freeze" the evolution of the system by measuring it frequently enough in its (known) initial state

I can follow the thinking there and can understand how it became associated with Zeno's paradox.

What I can't understand is your idea (or what I think is your idea) that if we believe the particle to be something else, it will become something else based on what we believe. Would you tie those two concepts together for me?

reply posted on 21-1-2012 @ 10:09 PM by whatsinaname

which came first doesn't matter if it just is

the universe started with the big bang, but what caused it? what caused what caused it? etc, circular definitions killed the meaning of math and science.

what i'm trying to say is no one knows, and if we don't go back and un** the situation no one ever will.

to further clarify, a curious thing occurs if you try to explain the concepts of infinity and nothing. you can't explain nothing without defining something, and you can't define infinity without breaking it into parts (number lines for example, is it a line, points, an infinity?, a dimensional construct?)

watch einstins idiots on youtube for more info, it explains circular definition in maths. the other side of the coin is when you read "scientists" or "experts" in the media, followed by some garbage, without the documentation of who these people are. don't buy it without research.

quantum zeno effect huh? why not just admit they found zero point already and stop lying to everyone -_- (zero losses, check, stable instability, check, breaks current laws of physics, check. srsly ive been saying this for years now will someone pay attention for once?)

edit on 21/1/2012 by whatsinaname because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 21-1-2012 @ 10:17 PM by miniatus

Doesn't quantum physics have a lot to do with observation anyway? .. I remember reading about quantum encryption being secure because even observing the transmission alters it's content.. so the person on the receiving end would know if the message has been viewed in transit ..

It was a long time ago when I read about that so I forget the specifics..

Quantum computing in general is baffling .. being able to use quantum computing to crack a password for example... because you can try every possible password at once..

reply posted on 21-1-2012 @ 10:25 PM by WeAreAWAKE

reply to post by charles1952

I'm not exactly sure where I was going...but it was on the lines of this. We encounter something and study it and in-turn, give it power. It exists and we believe it exists. So long as we pay attention to it, and believe it is there, it continues to exist. But when we stop paying attention to it or no longer believe in it...it begins to go away. As a very rough example...someone is deathly ill and getting worse. A group of people pray for the person to get better (eg. believing in prayer and giving prayer the power to do something) and the person gets better.

Or maybe...a different thought...it becomes more of a "background application" (as in on a computer). It gets pushed to the background and gets less processing/processor time, and if left alone, eventually gets turned off, or killed.

reply posted on 21-1-2012 @ 10:34 PM by charles1952

reply to post by WeAreAWAKE

Dear WeAreAWAKE,

Forgive me for saying this, but your last post makes sense.

I think you're saying that, just like the quantum particle which can only decay if it's not constantly observed, any object in reality can only decay if it's not constantly observed.

As I said, that makes a lot of sense. It's extremely counter-intuitive, and your Wikipedia source says it doesn't apply to macro objects, but it makes sense. Thanks. This thread is one of the more imaginative and thought provoking ones I've seen in a while

With respect,
Charles1952

reply posted on 21-1-2012 @ 10:40 PM by whatsinaname

reply to post by miniatus

I believe you are refering to the schrodingers cat thing, and the slit experiment.

i'll simply say this, isn't the cat an observer too?

also, they broke the quantum encryption thus far because of some underlying pattern, the only encryption not broken to date is PGP which uses a two key thing like the old story of how kings did the same with a chest instead of XHD's.

reply posted on 21-1-2012 @ 10:46 PM by SageBeno

Originally posted by Grifter81
Then what came first? Reality or belief? If belief then what believed without a reality to believe it in?

Chicken and the egg............

There is nothing more power of the manifestation and ability to believe.

If you believe it enough, it may well become reality.

reply posted on 21-1-2012 @ 10:54 PM by WeAreAWAKE

reply to post by SageBeno

I guess you could even ask the question "why" we are capable of believing or not believing. I mean that, obviously if you see something, watch it, touch it...it exists. If you can't...you have the option to believe. But why "can" we believe? Wouldn't it make more sense for a human to simply know what they know, and not have the ability to believe? Unless, of course, there was a purpose in belief such as making something real. Does a lion believe or not believe in things? Do they dream they can fly as people dream they can fly? Is this...somehow...how we are special?

Brain beginning to hurt

reply posted on 21-1-2012 @ 11:00 PM by whatsinaname

reply to post by SageBeno

>_> no one think of marshmellows (ghostbusters referance.)

reply posted on 21-1-2012 @ 11:10 PM by WeAreAWAKE

Man looked into the sky and saw stars, and as we built telescopes we saw more objects, and when we searched for habitable planets we found them, and as we continue to look further...more exists. Maybe it is all there because we are looking. Maybe everything is created as our view expands...ever expanding...like the universe.

It would be nice to believe that we are that special, that important. On that note however...I've got to get some sleep. G'nite.

edit on 1/21/2012 by WeAreAWAKE because: spelling

reply posted on 22-1-2012 @ 12:41 AM by Amaterasu

reply to post by WeAreAWAKE

Ahhh... Here is evidence that We don't have it all figured out. And some People on here try to tell Me I'm bat-turd crazy for believing that electrogravitics (which behaves unlike Einstein predicts) actually can do what I say it can do.

(Like Einstein is the be-all and end-all! His theories require Us to just take it on faith that matter bends space-time - with no explanation of how and why... Frankly, I want to know how and why - though, because of subquantum kinetics, which predict all that Einstein's theories predicted and more (like the Biefeld-Brown effect), I am convinced there IS no bending of space-time.)

Thank You for this eerie fact. I'm surprised I missed all this time! S&F!!!

reply posted on 22-1-2012 @ 05:27 AM by Spiratio

I think everything that is possible already exists so anything that can be believed is possible if one attunes to it... effectively they channel it into their immediate reality.

As for zeno's effect I think that a particle is not a thing but rather part of a wider field which makes up things. In this sense I don't feel decay could be postponed for eternity. For starters I think a cosmos has a finite stretch of time and for that reason none can postpone decay....

Negative energy is finite n duration and pertains to 3D realities

positive on the other hand is infinite and I feel that positive polarity realities can exist forever, because they use quantum sourcing of all possible positive aspects of finite realities to perpetuate their form via a hyperdimensional nexus conjunction. In that manner the experiential self can exist forever...yet the components of themselves and their reality are continually recycled. these are what I would call 5D lucid realities.

edit on 22-1-2012 by Spiratio because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 22-1-2012 @ 08:42 AM by WeAreAWAKE

I'm going to propose this thought as a "fictional story line" instead of a real possibility...that way, I won't sound overly insane.

We live in a world where anything humans believe en masse, becomes real and therefore...reality. But this has caused a huge problem where chaos would exist as a part of daily life. As humans realize this "power", the sun may rise at different times, or not rise at all. Creatures may appear that never existed and the next day...disappear. The Earth could be flat during one century and be round in the next. Utter chaos.

So a conspiracy formed to enforce some normality upon this Earth and its creatures. Our "leaders" or "Gods" decided to perpetuate the hiding of the truth (our abilities) by documenting and teaching rules about life and reality for the purpose of maintaining a sense of structure. We are taught from a young age that the sun rises in the morning and sets in the evening so that it does just that. Since we have been taught to believe this, and given made-up scientific facts...we have made these made-up-facts real and therefore...the sun does something predictable. Now, by being "trained" how to think...there is normalcy and predictability. But humans like to think and discover. So these "leaders" decided that in addition to laying out "the rules" which we will believe and that, therefore, will exist...to also fill our minds with other topics and responsibilities to keep the people from imagining things. If we were made to take jobs, to make money, to pay bills, etc...maybe we would be less prone to discover our ability to create anything and therefore...chaos. And here is where we are. A majestic race, capable of anything, and enslaved for our own good due to our inability to handle the chaos we would otherwise create.

JUST A STORY-LINE!!!...right?

reply posted on 22-1-2012 @ 02:53 PM by Spiratio

Originally posted by WeAreAWAKE
I'm going to propose this thought as a "fictional story line" instead of a real possibility...that way, I won't sound overly insane.

We live in a world where anything humans believe en masse, becomes real and therefore...reality. But this has caused a huge problem where chaos would exist as a part of daily life. As humans realize this "power", the sun may rise at different times, or not rise at all. Creatures may appear that never existed and the next day...disappear. The Earth could be flat during one century and be round in the next. Utter chaos.

So a conspiracy formed to enforce some normality upon this Earth and its creatures. Our "leaders" or "Gods" decided to perpetuate the hiding of the truth (our abilities) by documenting and teaching rules about life and reality for the purpose of maintaining a sense of structure. We are taught from a young age that the sun rises in the morning and sets in the evening so that it does just that. Since we have been taught to believe this, and given made-up scientific facts...we have made these made-up-facts real and therefore...the sun does something predictable. Now, by being "trained" how to think...there is normalcy and predictability. But humans like to think and discover. So these "leaders" decided that in addition to laying out "the rules" which we will believe and that, therefore, will exist...to also fill our minds with other topics and responsibilities to keep the people from imagining things. If we were made to take jobs, to make money, to pay bills, etc...maybe we would be less prone to discover our ability to create anything and therefore...chaos. And here is where we are. A majestic race, capable of anything, and enslaved for our own good due to our inability to handle the chaos we would otherwise create.

JUST A STORY-LINE!!!...right?

Each is in their own reality.......It would only seem chaos to those whoa re afraid of their own abilities...but the truth i feel...is that life is a dream. You are the creator of your reality, if you follow your heart as best you can, you will end up where your desires will be met..

No need to worry about chaos...It seems the leaders are not so much interested in preventing chaos. Order out of chaos is their motto. To prevent others from disappearing, into lucid paradise, leaving them with only useless money and themselves to play with.

Edit: The gift of knowledge is imparted in the final phase of a great yuga...when the power maddened can no longer be of use in aiding the cohesion of mass effect. In this time the energies are high enough to transcend the matrix of lack-consciousness

edit on 22-1-2012 by Spiratio because: (no reason given)

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