Life Spotted on Venus - Russian Scientist

reply to post by zorgon


Yeah, the Russkies can put that stuff away without batting an eyelash, even the blue label stuff doesn't faze them. I do love Russian vodka, but I really love an aged Bourbon Whiskey.

But I insist on cooking with Cognac. Cognac just transforms prime beef.

Originally posted by ZeskoWhirligan

Originally posted by NickSab67
We have to believe and be open to these processes because all our science and studies are based on our earth only.

Well, when you believe that there must be Life elsewhere in the Universe WITHOUT EVIDENCE, that's called Faith. As in, Faith that God exists, as well.

Faith is knowledge and certainty without physical evidence.

Science hates Faith. Science has no room for Faith.

I know this because skeptics and cynics and, yes, scientists tell me that Science only allows for that which we have definitive proof. By this logic, we cannot assume that Life thrives throughout the Universe, because we have no proof that Life exists anywhere except on Earth.

As far as Science — REAL Science — is concerned, Earth is the ONLY planet capable of sustaining Life. If you claim that Life MUST exist elsewhere in the Universe, then you must provide evidence.

The late Carl Sagan is often cited for his dire remark: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."

Which implies that Life DOES NOT exist beyond the Earth because, to date, nobody has provided the extraordinary proof to back up the extraordinary claims.

I know, I know, every day you hear scientists speculating on extraterrestrial life — but speculation is NOT Science. Speculation is just FANTASY unsupported by physical evidence.

I mean, if we just automatically ASSUME that the universe is teeming with Life and intelligent Life in varying stages of evolution and sophistication, then we must ALSO assume that God or gods do, indeed, exist. Because an intelligent species with technology that is, say, a billion years older than Humanity could rightly be identified as a God-race.

So Science must be very, very particular in where it places its Faith.

edit on 23-1-2012 by ZeskoWhirligan because: (no reason given)

I don't think saying there's life elsewhere in the Universe is "extraordinary". I think it's quite ordinary, and statistically ordinary.

And i'd have to dispute you on science, science has turned into a bit of a religion itself.

Now, REAL science, that you speak of, is the right way to go

I just had those comments, you seem like you know what you're talking about but i just thought i'd add my 2 cents. Thanks!

Originally posted by dannotz
And i'd have to dispute you on science, science has turned into a bit of a religion itself.

Well, Religion and Science are the same thing, they come from the same source. If the source is flawed (as it frequently is), then the products are going to be flawed, as well.

Science is NOT the authority on Nature. Nature consistently bitch-slaps Science, just when the guys down at the university think they've got it all figured out. Heh

reply to post by ZeskoWhirligan


Exactly!

thank you.

Belated response;

To me, it looks like a segment from the Russian probe.

reply to post by zorgon


I see a self-propelled fortune cookie and a bear poo.


Mmmmm....I'm going already...

Did you guys see a new report came out about this today? Only now they are saying that another probe was sent to Venus and it has arrived and has once again found living beings. Here's the link.

reply to post by angellicview

Did you guys see a new report came out about this today? Only now they are saying that another probe was sent to Venus and it has arrived and has once again found living beings. Here's the link.

You're using Weekly World News as a source? :shk:

Nope, sorry. Not familiar with the source. Just posted it in case any here are interested.

Peace

reply to post by angellicview


weeklyworldnews is not a good source
The operational orbit of Venus Express is a 24-hour elliptical, quasi-polar orbit
LAUNCH DATE: 09-Nov-2005
MISSION END:31 December 2014 (extended mission), subject to a mid-term review in 2012

Venus Express is orbital , no lander .
sci.esa.int...

reply to post by gortex


Okay, thanks for letting me know. This just popped up on my facebook page and I remembered this thread and thought I'd share it.

This is a promising subject. From what I read there's possible validity to the story, I'll stay posted.

Oh and IMO life could exist at such temps...who knows whats under the surface!

reply to post by GabrielSevenSeals


While I do agree an advanced civilization (as in "us" kind of advanced) on Venus is being hidden from Earth's public, I'm pretty sure they aren't reptilians (unless they're shape-shifter of some kind) because of the Valiant Thor story, which I don't think has ever been debunked. Those 3 supposed "ambassadors" looked human, just like us....very good looking in fact. "Ideal looking" is how I would describe them. At least in terms of the "aryan" type human or race, for lack of the proper term.

Edit- And I think they're being hidden at the request or perhaps demand of the Venusian people more so than the damand of our own governments/scientist/religious leaders. They probably decided on this during that visit (the Val Thor visit I mean).

But I suppose if the stories of reptilians are true, they are said to have no problem appearing human. So who knows? That's all speculation and sci-fi at this point. But I do believe the Valiant Thor story, and because of that story I've been convinced there are people on Venus since I was a child and heard the story. All the scientific data and stories/myths I've studied since have just backed up that belief.

Originally posted by Larry L
reply to post by GabrielSevenSeals

 

But I do believe the Valiant Thor story, and because of that story I've been convinced there are people on Venus since I was a child and heard the story. All the scientific data and stories/myths I've studied since have just backed up that belief.

edit on 23-1-2012 by Larry L because: to add

Never heard of the Valiant Thor story, but I'm curious as to what scientific data you are referring to and what does that have to do with a non confirmed unidentified object on Venus? Thanks...

reply to post by Larry L


"Valiant Thor"??

Honestly, when someone will accept a science fiction tale, over actual demonstrated science, it boggles the mind.

Perhaps you missed it earlier.....the way that the temperature of a planet (or even a star) can be measured from a distance is through spectroscopy.

What is Spectroscopy?

Spectroscopy pertains to the dispersion of an object's light into its component colors (i.e. energies). By performing this dissection and analysis of an object's light, astronomers can infer the physical properties of that object (such as temperature, mass, luminosity and composition).

(My emphasis).

The science is indisputable. The temperature on Venus is HOT!

The chemical composition of its atmosphere is KNOWN.

All due to the spectroscopy science.

The planetary society has an interesting view on their site, where they translated the actual article, and look at some of the corrected images. Interesting what he says is that Photoshop was ruled out, but then he used the Blur and Sharpen functions of Windows Paint????? Sounds worse than the image-processing people blame NASA for, which is mainly contrast stretching and sharpening.

"It must be emphasized that in the present work on the processing of the initial images images any retouching, drawing-in, additions to, or adjustment of images was completely ruled out." And he says that the use of Photoshop was "categorically ruled out." Yet he goes on to say that adjustments were, in fact, made. Missing bits of images were filled in with data from other images, contrast and brightness adjusted, and (most strangely), the "Blur" and "sharpen" functions in Microsoft Windows Paint were sometimes employed.

in another set, he compared 2 different images to each other, one just after the lander landed, and one just before it stopped transmitting, about 2 hours later, and compared them. Wind and movement of shadows has changed a bit of the picture.

"Two images, taken about an hour apart, show the gradual blowing away of soil on the landing ring of Venera-13. Changes in the quality of illumination appear, becoming less diffuse at some times. This is probably due to the movement of clouds, which would probably cause vague regions of lighter and darker sky as seen from the surface." It's very important to recall that the sites that the Venera landers photographed -- actually, sites photographed by any lander of any planet -- are at least somewhat disturbed by the landing. The Veneras kicked up dust and soil that was redeposited on their flat surfaces, some of which was blown away in the brief period that they transmitted data to the surface.

anycase, here is the planetary society's take on it :
planetary.org...

reply to post by interupt42


This is a reply to both you and ProudBird just to clear this up ahead of time, because you've never even heard about the Valiant Thor story, he's the one who referred to it as science fiction. Just being clear.

The Valiant Thor story isn't science fiction. Is it what it appears to be? I don't know that for sure, but it's not science fiction. It was a real newspaper article, by a serious newspaper not some kind of Inquirer-esque gossip rag. According to that article, the WHite House was hosting 3 ambassadors from Venus. 2 men and a woman. One was named Valiant Thor. The WHite House even held a press conference. Pictures of the 3 Ambassadors and the press conference with them were included.

It's been years since I've read the story, but if I recall correctly off the top of my head, the paper was The Washington Post, so it's not like this was a joke. And as far as I know it wasn't debunked. I seem to also recall a thread about here on ATS back in like 07-08 and debunkers only seemed to be able to come up with the fact that it was indeed a real newspaper article from the day (this was the 50's).

A simple google search for Valiant Thor will come up with everything in like the first result. Which is what happened when I googled it last, like 2 years ago or so. Check it out if you're interested. It's a fantastic conspiracy theory of sorts. It's fun to look into, and fun to show other people in person as well. I've hit a few friends with it over the years. It makes their head hurt, lol.

Originally posted by Hellhound604
The planetary society has an interesting view on their site,

FANTASTIC find, heckpuppy, thanks for sharing.

I'm going to chew on this awhile [and read the original in Russian].

ATS posters -- RULE!!

reply to post by Larry L


Sorry no......this was not a valid journalistic, newsworthy story.

but if I recall correctly off the top of my head, the paper was The Washington Post, so it's not like this was a joke.

If anything, it appears to be the invention of some crackpot religious "Reverend", one "Frank E. Stranges".

Valiant Thor from the Planet Venus


It's obvious poppycock. Worth of the "Weekly World News", the paper that is home to "BatBoy" and the "Space Alien Meets George W. Bush" photograph.

reply to post by ProudBird


Well, to be fair, you link was a quick summary of Stranger at the Pentagon, which was a book written by a guy claiming to have had interactions with Valiant Thor while he was here. That's all heresay to be honest. WHile still interesting, that's just a guy's story about the Valiant Thor story. That's like what's-his-name's story about being on the ELdridch durring the Philidelphia Expeiment. There's not alot of confirmable facts in either story.

All that concerns me is the confirmable facts. ANd in the case of the Valiant Thor story, the only confirmed facts are the actual newspaper articles from the time. And your link doesn't have the newspaper articles. Though those are a couple of the pictures of the "ambassadors" from the newspaper articles in that link.