Explosive Evidence - Experts Speak Out

Fist off,

My hats off to the OP. Very fine job.

Second to PBird,

I see a common theme amongst debunkers like you hooper and Alifie, You either just jump on one minute part of the overall picture that can be argued either way or like in this thread you attempt to probe the OP till you find something you can jump on,then attempt to derail.

I do not know about other people who read this site but I can see right through you. You are asking questions that have no answers and try to lead people away from the core of the issue.

Originally posted by ProudBird
reply to post by TupacShakur

 

But:

It could have been a good pilot.

Really??!!??

Who, in your rational mind, do you think would be a "good pilot" and also be "suicidal"??? I mean, we all see, in Hollywood films, the "valiant sacrifice" and such.....(think the move "Titanic", for example....or Captain Kirk, in the movie "Generations"...[although he didn't really die, at first....he "time traveled"....Oy!!!])....


Just try to THINK for yourself, please!!! Apply some logic, and a greater understanding of physics, as it applies to gravity, and the dynamics of a building that has been rendered unstable, because of (A) severe lateral impact damage and, (B) Severe uneven heating due to uncontrolled fires affecting the expansion rates of various structural members.

Just THINK!

edit on Fri 13 January 2012 by ProudBird because: (no reason given)

Originally posted by ProudBird
reply to post by -W1LL

 

No, they really didn't just hit the "tops" of the Towers.

There was a huge amount of mass contained in the upper floors above the impact zones.....and you have to keep in mind that the buildings were not solid masses below the impact zones.....they are constructed of individual pieces.....and the connections that those pieces had, when they were assembled, is what failed.

Fire doesn't "melt" steel, but it DOES weaken it, and also causes expansion and buckling.

The connections, the millions of them, that every individual piece of the structure had to connect to the other piece....those failed, because they were subjected to loads outside their intended design parameters.

"Progressive collapse" refers to the sequential failure after failure after failure, all in a very fast succession, and all driven by the force of gravity.

that is a fine theory but it is just that an Unproven theory. 75 or more floors did not ALL swell up and structurally fail because of the load of an airplane and burning fire. this building was designed for this as all steel structures are this is fact and can be proven with pictures and facts about structural steel and its tolerances to fire.

ever use a blow torch to cut 1"1/2 structural steel? it takes a concentrated mixture of gases to create a fire hot enough to melt steel, and to actually Cut steel...this could easily be settled if the dust pile was properly examined.
but since it is long gone with the so called dump trucks full of gold, I rely on building engineering and facts as do many other architects and engineers who do not believe a load from an airplane and its fire caused and Entire Bldg to fail no make that 2 buildings fail simultaneously every floor one after the other as if the floor below had never been there, From a localized Fire that had no time to burn. if what you say was true then we would have seen localized failures in the buildings where the planes hit not below there was not a fire consuming the entire BLDG, there were however explosions.

then a 3rd BLDG predictably falls the Exact same way hours later with even less fire damage not even caused by jet fuel.
I mean no offence, you need to do some more research on building engineering you are missing several points in your last post and I only hope you read more into on fire heck go set a fire in a Steel drum and watch it melt before your eyes.

Great thread!!
Facts are hard to ignore and you did a great job of putting a lot of them together in one central location with your lists of names and videos as well.

What always made me realize we didn`t know exactly what happened that day as the official story was told to us, was the fact of building 7 also collapsing at near freefall speed. They leave building 7 out of their official report. They explain the towers` collapse as that of burning jet fuel and pancakes theory. So how did another high rise not struck by an airplane collapse in almost identical fashion? The official report lacks any credibility due to these 2 facts alone that cannot be disputed.

This is an amazing thread and I can see why you will gain a lot of negative attention due to it.
There will never be a majority of people who accept that this series of tragic events was much more sinister then we all were told. It will always be a small percentage like .03% or something that can understand that there is more in depth, and can comprehend that something much different then that of which we know did in fact occur.

I don`t know if we`ll ever know the truth but because of efforts like those of the op to help try and lay out the facts, there is hope.

Star and flag for one of the most well put together threads I have ever seen on ATS.

Originally posted by ProudBird
reply to post by AnalogDan

 

WELCOME but....

"dr Judy wood??????

LOL, LOL........LOL

I guess I'm not understanding why you're laughing.

reply to post by -W1LL


PLEASE try to understand,,,,,,,,,,

...that is a fine theory but it is just that an Unproven theory. 75 or more floors did not ALL swell up and structurally fail because of the load of an airplane and burning fire. this building was designed

I have NO idea of your "point'.....

reply to post by _BoneZ_

If a theory that the towers were explosively demoed is postulated, then the theory should contain possible ways it was done so as to test those possibilities.
I see you are still avoiding this and don't want to face up to the fact that no one in the truther movement is able to come up with even one possibility other than the usual hand waving and obfuscation, as you are doing. When pressed for details, it turns out that there aren't any. Apparently, either no one in the organizations promoting the idea of controlled demolition is competent enough to actually describe a possible method in detail or they realize that they really have no case. It appears as though there is no foundation for such a theory other than the beliefs of the deluded few.

reply to post by pteridine


No, if there are only two choices and we can deduce that one is incorrect, then the other must be correct.

If the towers could not have collapsed naturally from gravity, then there must have been another energy involved, regardless of whether you can find evidence for it, or what your opinion is.

Originally posted by SavedOne

Originally posted by TupacShakur
On the other hand, we have what scientists, researchers, architects, and engineers are telling us, which is that there is evidence that shows that the official story cannot be true.

I've pointed this out before, but the architects and structural engineers that have signed the petition on 911truth are a very small minority. I calculated it on another thread and as I recall it was around 0.3% of registered professionals. And it should be noted that the petition is merely a statement that the signators believe a more in-depth investigation should be held, they're not saying that they agree with the conspiracy. I am not saying the conspiracy is or is not true, but as an architect I feel a need to set the record straight whenever I see someone imply that all architects and engineers back the conspiracy. The vast majority do not.

That really is an impressive OP series that you're simply refusing to address. As an architect, you're not professionally equipped to address the fundamentals of applied physics, and actually have no expertise in any examination that begins once the building in question has begun a global collapse sequence. The fall of any of the three of these buildings is completely outside the professional sphere of any architect, since the expertise an architect has is limited to the established methods of preventing such a global collapse - not in properly analyzing such a collapse sequence.

This is akin to a professor of comparative religion claiming to have the proper credentials required to speak as an expert on the existence (or non-existence) of God. That professor only has expertise on the practical applications that have been devised by other humans in their efforts to respond to their own limited perceptions concerning the existence (or non-existence) of God or a god or a plethora of gods. Truth is that a logician is much more professionally equipped to address such a question than any professor of comparative religion.

In other words, your claims of being an architect are irrelevant to whatever it is that you believe is true about the events of 9/11. Once the buildings in question began their global collapses, your area of expertise was shifted far away from the discussion. From that moment, only an applied physics expertise (readily demonstrated) could give you that position of having anything to offer of value to the debate.

This is why I stay away from these threads. The evidence of controlled demolition is overwhelming, and it forces the OCT apologists to post the most inane assertions. Hell some of you maniacs try to sell the idea that the towers were pre-rigged as a"safety precaution". I'll admit, that idea is pretty novel, but only if you see psychopathic insanity as being akin to originality. This debate has become the 21st century version of the flat-earth controversy. The flat-earthers will never budge and they should simply be dismissed as the tragic object lessons that they've become. The only justice in this situation will be the direct application of justice by non-government entities, with the known perpetraitors being fully dealt with in the 1st wave - but not before the 2nd wave is identified by those taken in the 1st wave. No other remedy will ever work regardless of how much evidence is piled before the court.

Long time reader, first time poster here...

I've been looking into all of this stuff for years and had my convictions set on 9/11 about two or three years ago when I watched the first A&E9/11 video. Since then, I've come to realize that many so called conspiracy theories are all interconnected.

People on this thread use the fact that all the evidence has been wiped away as a form of pacification. It drums the idea in the head that a real investigation cannot ever occur. Although a subtle and seemingly innocent remark, it is in truth a blatant form of contamination. For people who have never learned to utilize purely subjective thought; this is the only little seed they need to question their own internal beliefs.

This takes us to the core of every question and you must ask yourself, "what is truth"? If the Mayor of NY came on the television and said the buildings had been rigged with explosives, is that vindication for the people who have known all along? What if he says but it still was not an inside job... that someone else did it... and they don't know who... (which I do not believe) And then what if someone else with more power, like the President, said he was mistaken... who do you believe? The one with more political ranking?

Same applies to the garbage (clouding the issue crap) about someone's level of professionalism... If thirty professional expert engineers and "structural engineers" all say "this is what we think..." but then one or two more publicly known officials and professional experts say, "no, that's a bunch of crap.." who do you believe? Obviously, one side of the argument is wrong... but simple-minded people will not take a side. They will dance and lull in the gray blur constantly allowing the thoughts and subjectivity of other minds battle it out until one side wins.

Except there is no winning here. You will always have thousands of people using their own minds who know the truth... and they will always be fighting BOTH the simple minded 'can't think for myself crowd' AND the massive secret PR team that controls the flow of information.

You think a blockbuster film has a lot of PR momentum behind it? They spend 20-30 Million dollars on PR for a film that costs two or three hundred million to produce.... you don't think the American government has a whole division of people laboring away, 'clouding the issue', coming up with alternative ideas, doing all they can to drop so many colors of ink in the pool that no one can figure out what color it is or even what it started as? You don't think they're spending hundreds of millions, if not billions of dollars a year to protect industries and the status quo that result in trillions of dollars.

Governments have always been about control since the dawn of time. The private and governmental sectors have always dominated the planet. And there is always a need to censor, control and regulate the information the public sector receives. This is why the poor always and forever will, get hammered down, and why the rich and the elite will most always find their way out.

Stop giving others so much influence over you. Use logic and think about the bigger picture.

What disturbs me more than anything is this... there could be ten or twenty more videos just like this but with different experts, different eye-witness testimonies, more cops, more firefighters, even interviews with regular citizenry. BUT most people will still sit on their hands and wait... they'll be waiting to be told by an authoritative figure. They'll fret and worry and occasionally ruminate on the subject, but they're mostly waiting for someone in charge, a power figure to get up on national television and admit it.

Without that, those people will never believe. That is so ridiculously sad. It is these people that have, and forever will allow the governments of the world to operate with impunity and lack of any social morality. Because now it is so very easy for them to get away with just about anything. They cloud an issue over many years, they ostracize those who don't tow the line, they ridicule and enact punishments for those that break the line, and they never, under any circumstance, admit the truth and end the lie.

If I had money, I swear I would pay you to sit down and start reading books on philosophy and history.

reply to post by TupacShakur


Well here we go again another AE911 thread it took them 10 years to to get to what was it 1500 names (including the kitchen fitter)

So what percentage of them are STRUCTURAL Engineers, then from that see what percentage of structural engineers is that in the USA and then the world as a whole

In one of there videos they show the WTC 7 collapse and say it takes about 7 seconds yet when you see the video from an elevated position you see the collapse has started way before that and takes over 20 seconds in total

Its their own video watch from 2:35 you see the start at left side steel has collapsed inside structure on top left then falls in then the main collapse happens.

Originally posted by Sandman80
If I had money, I swear I would pay you to sit down and start reading books on philosophy and history.

It would help a lot more if you were to pay the vocal minority who "know" the WTC was a controlled demolition to read a few books on physics and engineering so we could put that aspect on the 9/11 conspiracy to rest.

Just sayin....

Originally posted by pteridine
reply to post by _BoneZ_

 

If a theory that the towers were explosively demoed is postulated, then the theory should contain possible ways it was done so as to test those possibilities.
I see you are still avoiding this and don't want to face up to the fact that no one in the truther movement is able to come up with even one possibility other than the usual hand waving and obfuscation, as you are doing. When pressed for details, it turns out that there aren't any. Apparently, either no one in the organizations promoting the idea of controlled demolition is competent enough to actually describe a possible method in detail or they realize that they really have no case. It appears as though there is no foundation for such a theory other than the beliefs of the deluded few.

Easy. Quickly attached (likely by magnetic plates) IED style C4 blast packages mounted by 3 man teams using the freight elevators (one elevator operator inside each and two IED placers on each freight elevator) - likely requiring less that two days to "wire" the core matrix. Thermate "painter teams" working in the exact same manner to weaken key reinforced areas of the core matrix to ensure a smooth drop, with these thermate riggings also RF trigger via remote low-power transmitter controlled by a digital sequencing program and a laptop computer from a line-of-sight position (likely in a building outside the attack zone but within a 1/4 mile to ensure clear transmission).

On the big day, the entire drop sequence has been configured, with each IED pack and thermate rigging point loaded in the laptop sequencing program via specific frequency of the receiver/trigger device (a simple 9 volt battery and a grounding switch - like all IEDs), and once the jets hit each building, the onsite tech simply reconfigured the blast sequence to begin at the general level of where the jet hit, and then they waited until it would be plausible (in their minds) for a global collapse to "naturally" initiate. The reason that WTC2 was dropped first was that they were monitoring the police and firefighter radio bands, and a team had reached the impact zone of WTC2, reporting only small areas of fire that could be "knocked down with just two lines".

The plan had probably been to allow everyone time to evacuate the buildings before dropping them, but that radio call sealed the fate of everyone. The fires could not be put out - not any of them - since the lack of clarity concerning the actual damage from the plane impacts and resulting fires was integral to the narrative concerning why the towers collapsed.

WTC1 was dropped within a plausible time frame as well so as to not make the collapse of WTC2 seem anomalous in comparison. The techs probably had a difficult day following what they were forced to do, and it's not likely that they ultimately survived as witnesses to what had become of the "master plan" for that day. True, many were expected to die, but probably not as many as did die.

So now you have had the "how it was done" explained to you. Never post here again that no one's ever offered up a plausible narrative. I just did, and here's some more explanation for you concerning why they did it and how they got away with it.

There are people who have talked, but the media and the government can't do anything about what happened, since the follow-on attack (The Anthrax mailings) made sure that the media and the government would remain at a distance from what was done. That anthrax is still hovering over all of us, and is the insurance policy that has kept any serious investigation from every being allowed by the government or the media. There is a lot of that anthrax still out there. It takes three years to engineer the weaponized anthrax that was used in those mailings. To believe that all of it was used in those several envelopes is to not really understand much about what was done to the US during that month in 2001.

The impetus for all of this was a full-on raid of the US Treasury, and it's still happening. trillions and trillions of dollars - first to defense contractors and private sector intelligence firms, and now to banks and investment firms. If the US was a ship, this would be called scuttling. They're stripping the US of all value, and then the big money focus will be on India and China as low level management (white collar) and manufacturing (blue collar) labor forces (respectively). The US is slated to be the world police, with no real career options available to young men and women in the broader sense. Stripped of its wealth, the US will be easily reconfigured as a 21st century Sparta, with the global plutocracy directing it all through a new crop of political leaders. Another 20 years should do it.

9/11 was the initiation of it all, and so far, it's working just as planned.

Originally posted by Drunkenparrot

Originally posted by Sandman80
If I had money, I swear I would pay you to sit down and start reading books on philosophy and history.

It would help a lot more if you were to pay the vocal minority who "know" the WTC was a controlled demolition to read a few books on physics and engineering so we could put that aspect on the 9/11 conspiracy to rest.

Just sayin....

Unfortunately, that wouldn't solve anything :-/ As I said in my second post, it doesn't matter how many people you get to 'think' and 'feel' in the some manner. You could have 8,000 A&E for truth within their organization. That will never be enough for people who cannot think for themselves. They have, since kindergarten, been told to subject to authority and this abject complacency has been pressed drilled into their minds for too long.

Once you start zooming out, dropping preconceived perceptions of your world view, and start looking at the big picture of the entire 9/11 charade. There comes a moment when everything clicks and you start to realize how messed up things are.

And due to compartmentalization, even the people sitting in office buildings who are part of the dis-information crowd just don't get it. They're getting a decent sized paycheck to muddle issues. In truth, they are no different from someone who worked for the Nazis during WW2 licking and sealing envelopes. However small your role, you're part of the engine that is slowly destroying society.

Originally posted by wmd_2008
reply to post by TupacShakur

 

Well here we go again another AE911 thread it took them 10 years to to get to what was it 1500 names (including the kitchen fitter

)

So what percentage of them are STRUCTURAL Engineers, then from that see what percentage of structural engineers is that in the USA and then the world as a whole

In one of there videos they show the WTC 7 collapse and say it takes about 7 seconds yet when you see the video from an elevated position you see the collapse has started way before that and takes over 20 seconds in total

Its their own video watch from 2:35 you see the start at left side steel has collapsed inside structure on top left then falls in then the main collapse happens.

There you go trying to put a time limit on truth. Who cares how long it takes and those 1500 people are putting their LIFE and JOBS on the line. Can you sit here and tell me HONESTLY that no witness of 911 has mysteriously wound up dead ?

It would of been even harder during the begining as people were so caught up in the Patriotism after the attacks I admit I was one of tthose people. Someone was afraid of conspiracy theories thats for sure --

reply to post by malcr


But imagining the biggest towers in the world collapsing due to fuel jet which melt 1/2 of what steel does and in such a little sect can distort the whole building in a perfect demolition type sounds pretty suspicious to me especially when 19 Indians which never saw a computer in their life could pull all this off. + Their is several images of explosions in the WTC towers and the plain that was flown was a military UN plane Hmm...

reply to post by csulli456


Yeah WTC7 wasn't even mentioned in the 9/11 Commission Report. Is one of the only three skyscrapers to collapse from fire damage in history collapsing not important or something? It didn't get hit by a plane or anything, but whatever, they just felt that it wasn't worth mentioning.

Originally posted by andersensrm

Originally posted by SavedOne

Originally posted by TupacShakur
OK then start by watching these interviews:

Again, my point is that many if not all of these may indeed be in the field just like I am, but that does not make them experts just like I am not. I am an architect with nearly 30 years experience and several high-rise projects as I said above (and as I've repeated in many other threads not related to 9-11, feel free to look in case you think I'm making it up just for this occasion). This does not make me an expert on the WTC collapses. Nor does it make my peers experts. The only "experts" would fall under two categories:

1. Those intimately involved in the design and construction of the projects (and they have been completely silent, probably for legal reasons).

2. Those who are experts in the field and have engaged in a full study of the drawings, specifications, field reports, test reports, submittals, etc. etc. etc. for the projects. These wouldn't start out as experts, but could become experts if allowed full access to all the documentation. They should also interview the construction personnel involved to get the full picture- IE, were connections made per the drawings or were field modifications made, etc.

Again, not saying the conspiracy is true or not, just pointing out that these people are expressing personal and not professional expert opinions unless they fall under one of the two above categories.

I'd have to agree with him, If you don't have access to ALL of the information, then your not an expert. Experts are objectives and shouldn't have to speculate, not that I'm saying I think the OS is true, cause it most obviously is not. I do think that when you have so many "professionals" that is people working in a relatively same field, that they do have something to contribute. But look we already destroyed all the evidence, all we can do now is speculate as to what happened....

So basically what you both are saying is if you don't have all the information, even if the information is a proven first time event, that no one can be an expert? I would love for the both of you to please state how this is possible considering the fact that this is notably a "first time event"!
And in going by your so called logic, doesn't that mean that everyone on the official report given is also Not an expert? They had access to the same information, didn't they? Then, also by your logic, doesn't that make the Official Story and Report nothing but theory, conjecture and opinion?
Please follow your rules of logic before you reply or it will be consider hipocracy.

Originally posted by TupacShakur
Yeah WTC7 wasn't even mentioned in the 9/11 Commission Report

Except of course it was mentioned - but facts have not stopped "truthers" telling lies and making up stories.

Anyway let us look at the purpose of the commission:

To answer these questions, the Congress and the President created the National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States (Public Law 107-306, November 27, 2002). Our mandate was sweeping.The law directed us to investigate “facts and circumstances relating to the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001,” including those relating to intelligence agencies, law enforcement agencies, diplomacy, immigration issues and border control, the flow of assets to terrorist organizations, commercial aviation, the role of congressional oversight and resource allocation, and other areas determined relevant by the Commission

www.gpoaccess.gov...

but "truthers" think research is visiting silly conspiracy theory sites, and coming up with sillier and sillier conspiracy theories!