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The one concept that Seperates the Church from Christ

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posted on Jan, 12 2012 @ 04:09 PM
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Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 

Preaching contrary to him makes you anti-christ./

Preaching against Jesus makes one anti-christ, while having a calm mature discussion of beliefs that just so happens to not be in conformity with your personal interpretation of the New Testament just means they have a different religion.
edit on 12-1-2012 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



I was not trying to "preach anything contrary to Jesus" lonewolf.....

I do not want to preach anything at all.....there is already one priest in my family.....and I am not interested in following in his footsteps.....

I do not think preaching anything is effective.

I was simply stating my opinion, which is not like yours.

I think Jesus was an amazing man, and also the son of god. I am not against him in any way.

But like JM said, my interpretation of the new testament is not like yours and it is a personal interpretation based off my personal experiences and my personal relationship with god.

I would not expect you to understand, which is one reason why I will never try to convince you or persuade you to believe or think like me.....like I said, I do not preach anything to anyone.

But I do like to contribute and share in discussion.




posted on Jan, 12 2012 @ 06:53 PM
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reply to post by Mijamija
 


I posted this in another thread but I think it has relevance here as well.

I think that one thing that we must all understand is there is only one right answer and that is not your answer, my answer or any man’s answer. The answer comes from understanding scripture, and understanding scripture comes from within. We should always try to help one another understand scripture but we should always be content with the answer that comes from within and not let our differences separate us. We are all equal parts of the same body. The apostles who’s understanding far surpasses ours thought it best that we were all equals so I to hold to that conclusion.



posted on Jan, 12 2012 @ 09:49 PM
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reply to post by sacgamer25
 

I think that one thing that we must all understand is there is only one right answer and that is not your answer, my answer or any man’s answer. The answer comes from understanding scripture, and understanding scripture comes from within.
How does this even make sense? No one has the answer but you somehow know that Mijamija's is wrong, and what, exactly is wrong with it?
Mijamija said that people without loving parents have a tougher time of it in life. Are you going to claim that somehow your superiority of internal biblical knowledge contradicts that statement?
You know, it might be more helpful to explain how scripture says something different, instead of a high handed lecture on Mijamija's just being wrong and somehow of an inferior internal biblical understanding. I think you are going a bit overboard on you idolatry, meaning the worship of something which is the product of your imagination. Obviously what you are doing is wrong, so you need to abolish this concept of innate superiority and get onto the same level as everyone else and to actually reason things out instead of dressing people down for not having the same magical quality to their opinion as there is to your opinion.
edit on 12-1-2012 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 13 2012 @ 12:45 PM
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Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by sacgamer25
 

I think that one thing that we must all understand is there is only one right answer and that is not your answer, my answer or any man’s answer. The answer comes from understanding scripture, and understanding scripture comes from within.
How does this even make sense? No one has the answer but you somehow know that Mijamija's is wrong, and what, exactly is wrong with it?
Mijamija said that people without loving parents have a tougher time of it in life. Are you going to claim that somehow your superiority of internal biblical knowledge contradicts that statement?
You know, it might be more helpful to explain how scripture says something different, instead of a high handed lecture on Mijamija's just being wrong and somehow of an inferior internal biblical understanding. I think you are going a bit overboard on you idolatry, meaning the worship of something which is the product of your imagination. Obviously what you are doing is wrong, so you need to abolish this concept of innate superiority and get onto the same level as everyone else and to actually reason things out instead of dressing people down for not having the same magical quality to their opinion as there is to your opinion.
edit on 12-1-2012 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)


I think you have misunderstood me. I believe the Holy Spirit is the teacher. So what I am saying is that both of us may be right. The Holy Spirit teaches each believer to the understanding necessary for them.

There are some simple truths that cannot be ignored but for the most part if what someone says helps them follow the one law that Christ is teaching, the law of love, than what they believe is right for them.

It is only when someone says something that directly contradicts scripture will I show them with scripture, not my own words, where they are wrong.

Anything else that we believe should not cause separation amongst us. We are all equal parts of the same body. Each of us has a right to follow Christ in the way that we understand is best for us. As long as it does not directly contradict scripture.

My intent was not to take a place of righteousness instead trust that God through the Holy Spirit is the only true teacher. I am only a messenger, one has to look within for the truth that helps them. Just as I look within so should everyone else. I do not have the right answer for everyone but there is one that does, God.
edit on 13-1-2012 by sacgamer25 because: (no reason given)

edit on 13-1-2012 by sacgamer25 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 13 2012 @ 02:12 PM
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reply to post by sacgamer25
 

So what I am saying is that both of us may be right.

Then you need to focus on your writing skills because that is not the way it came across to me, and I cried a little bit when I read your post imagining how the other person would have felt after trying to make a helpful post, to get this thrown in their face.
If you cried from my post, then you are just pathetic and you need to hand in your prophet hat and robe.



posted on Jan, 15 2012 @ 12:08 PM
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reply to post by sacgamer25
 


When people hate Christians they are not hating Christ. Nothing in the bible says you have to be a Christian to be saved. However Christianity itself as you have stated is full of deceit so to hate deceit is not actually hating Christ but rather a step in the right direction for he says "come out of her my children".



posted on Jan, 15 2012 @ 01:05 PM
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reply to post by The Riley Family
 
I don't think that verse was ever intended to mean to come out of Christianity and it is meant to be understood in its context where the world is seducing Christians to forsake Christianity. Instead of leaving Christianity to join the sins of the world, leave the world to join the holiness of true Christianity.



posted on Jan, 15 2012 @ 04:35 PM
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Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by The Riley Family
 
I don't think that verse was ever intended to mean to come out of Christianity and it is meant to be understood in its context where the world is seducing Christians to forsake Christianity. Instead of leaving Christianity to join the sins of the world, leave the world to join the holiness of true Christianity.



No where in the scriptures does it say to become a Christian for salvation. I don't see the world justifying the sins of Christianity only Christianity justifies its own sins, or at least thinks it does.



posted on Jan, 15 2012 @ 05:28 PM
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Originally posted by The Riley Family
reply to post by sacgamer25
 


When people hate Christians they are not hating Christ. Nothing in the bible says you have to be a Christian to be saved. However Christianity itself as you have stated is full of deceit so to hate deceit is not actually hating Christ but rather a step in the right direction for he says "come out of her my children".


What I mean when I say this is like this.

As a Christian if I tell a Muslim that they are going to hell I have caused them to hate the Christ that I believe in. Now you and I know that this statement of hate does not come from Christ, so the Muslim has only hated a false Christ but the Muslim may not see it this way.

You are correct the bible does not say you have to be a Christian to be saved; it says you were chosen for salvation from the beginning. All one needs to do is listen to the law of love within them and allow themselves to be guided by it.



posted on Jan, 16 2012 @ 08:02 AM
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Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by sacgamer25
 




This is what i believe. If a person will not respond to the love of Christ and how he gave himself so that all could be with him, you might as well stow the hellfire and damnation speech because if his love cannot reach their hearts, then fear will not touch them either. They do not believe because they have not been chosen. Not everyone is going to make it to the new heaven and new earth, it's a sad fact. Many will perish.

edit on 16-1-2012 by apsalmist because: (no reason given)

edit on 16-1-2012 by apsalmist because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 16 2012 @ 08:27 AM
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reply to lonewolf
 


They do not believe because they have not been chosen. A tenet of Christian theology. When Our Creator created humankind each creation was selected (elected) to either hear the word and freely choose to believe and, therefore, reap all the benefits of believing including pleasent eternal life or not selected so when hearing the word freely choose not to believe and, thereby, earn suffering including an unpleasent eternal life. I think we need to bring this awareness more fully to the fore as we continue this discussion.
edit on 16-1-2012 by apsalmist because: It seems appropriate.

edit on 16-1-2012 by apsalmist because: (no reason given)

edit on 16-1-2012 by apsalmist because: (no reason given)

edit on 16-1-2012 by apsalmist because: Appropriate



posted on Jan, 16 2012 @ 09:15 AM
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Originally posted by apsalmist
reply to lonewolf
 


They do not believe because they have not been chosen. A tenet of Christian theology. When Our Creator created humankind each creation was selected (elected) to either hear the word and freely choose to believe and, therefore, reap all the benefits of believing including pleasent eternal life or not selected so when hearing the word freely choose not to believe and, thereby, earn suffering including an unpleasent eternal life. I think we need to bring this awareness more fully to the fore as we continue this discussion.
edit on 16-1-2012 by apsalmist because: It seems appropriate


No, that negates the free will covenant. What youre talking about is pre-destination and has been refuted a long time ago.

I think your raising as a child has a part to play in it, but also youre experiences as an adult that gets topped off with wether or not you have an open mind and are willing to knowingly embrace what you know people would ostracise you for and persecute you and as in ages passed, even be killed for believing.

People used to be killed for believing in God and Jesus. Sometimes i think there are folks out there that wish they could go back to killing us, i can tell by the way they abuse and hate us. Killing us is the next step. Hate is the "gate way drug", once you already hate...murder may very well become an option for you.

What i meant by being chosen is that Jesus knocks on everyone's door to their heart, but some cannot hear it and by their rejection they will not be chosen to inherit the kingdom. Some people are just hard hearted.


edit on 16-1-2012 by lonewolf19792000 because: (no reason given)
extra DIV



posted on Jan, 16 2012 @ 09:22 AM
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reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 


Some Christians actually want this to happen. They are hoping for the world to end and for Jesus to return... Some of them are actually behind the scenes TRYING to make the end time prophecies happen.



posted on Jan, 16 2012 @ 10:09 AM
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Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
No, that negates the free will covenant. What youre talking about is pre-destination and has been refuted a long time ago.


Please, stop spreading lies. There are numerous references that point to predestination. One of them being Ephesians 1:3-6


3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

4According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

5Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

6To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.


It's in your Bible, I suggest you read it.



posted on Jan, 16 2012 @ 10:36 AM
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Originally posted by novastrike81

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
No, that negates the free will covenant. What youre talking about is pre-destination and has been refuted a long time ago.


Please, stop spreading lies. There are numerous references that point to predestination. One of them being Ephesians 1:3-6


3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

4According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

5Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

6To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.


It's in your Bible, I suggest you read it.


Cool, i forgot about that. Man that makes me glad i was chosen to hear it then



posted on Jan, 16 2012 @ 10:42 AM
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Originally posted by arpgme
reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 


Some Christians actually want this to happen. They are hoping for the world to end and for Jesus to return... Some of them are actually behind the scenes TRYING to make the end time prophecies happen.


Yes, i want Jesus to return...badly. His spirit may be with us but he's the only one that can put a stop to all this misery and death. Mankind has proven that he cannot do it on his own. We can do nothing without Jesus, and this may be the test to prove it.

Not saying i want to kill people for it to happen, but wether its forced or on it's own it's happening because it was meant to. Jesus said not to be afraid because all of this must come to pass, meaning he knew all this was going to happen and he didn't want us to br afraid.



posted on Jan, 16 2012 @ 10:45 AM
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Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
Cool, i forgot about that. Man that makes me glad i was chosen to hear it then


You we destined to hear it before your time.



posted on Jan, 16 2012 @ 12:29 PM
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reply to post by The Riley Family
 

No where in the scriptures does it say to become a Christian for salvation. I don't see the world justifying the sins of Christianity only Christianity justifies its own sins, or at least thinks it does.

It does not use that word, Christian, but the belief in Jesus is the path to salvation.



posted on Jan, 16 2012 @ 12:35 PM
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reply to post by sacgamer25
 

You are correct the bible does not say you have to be a Christian to be saved; it says you were chosen for salvation from the beginning. All one needs to do is listen to the law of love within them and allow themselves to be guided by it.
I would think if salvation is by lottery, then anything you do will make no difference, so I don't think your philosophy makes sense logically.



posted on Jan, 16 2012 @ 12:39 PM
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reply to post by apsalmist
 

A tenet of Christian theology.
Maybe some extremist version of fringe Calvinism, but no normal Christianity.



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