It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

The one concept that Seperates the Church from Christ

page: 1
9
<<   2  3 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Jan, 11 2012 @ 08:27 PM
link   
I want to share something with you that I believe by my prayer you will understand. I am about to show you a message that has been misunderstood since the founding of the modern church.


Colossians 1 24:27 24 26 This message was kept secret for centuries and generations past, but now it has been revealed to God’s people. 27 For God wanted them to know that the riches and glory of Christ are for you Gentiles, too. And this is the secret: Christ lives in you. This gives you assurance of sharing his glory.

This message in Colossians is a retelling of the Good News. You must take the letters in the New Testament in context they were written to. The very first believers and they were the words to be taught to the very first converts.


John 1:1-51 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.

John 1:14 14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

Romans 2:14-15 14Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.

If Jesus was the word and became flesh, and the Gentiles showed that the requirements, the word, were on their heart, than they were born with Christ in them. Look at the following verses that provide more clarification to what I say.


1 John 4:16-18 God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them. 17 This is how love is made complete among us so that we will have confidence on the day of judgment: In this world we are like Jesus. 18 There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love.

1 John 4:4-6 4 You, dear children, are from God and have overcome them, because the one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world. 5 They are from the world and therefore speak from the viewpoint of the world, and the world listens to them. 6 We are from God, and whoever knows God listens to us; but whoever is not from God does not listen to us. This is how we recognize the Spirit of truth and the spirit of falsehood.

Do you understand the message to the new believers? The message was simple those who live by the law of love prove they have Christ in them.

All Christian denominations teach the exact opposite. The church says you must say that you believe in Christ to prove that you have Christ in you.

Can you see that simply getting this one thing wrong is what has caused over 40,000 denominations that follow the same book? Everyone is looking for a better version of the truth but none have found the key. The church teaches a doctrine of salvation that causes separation, and judgment.

This judgment has lead to hate, when people hate Christians, they hate Jesus, when they hate Jesus they hate God.

My brother anything that leads to judgment, hate, and superiority cannot be from Jesus. He told us not to judge, not to hate, that we are all necessary parts of the same body.

The church tells us to go tell the non believer the good news and then tells us the non believer is going to hell if he doesn’t convert. Has this loved in any way? This message has slammed the door on Christ because he has hated the message thus he has hated Christ.

Listen to what I am telling the non believer. Friend I see you live by the law of love, and because of this I know you have Christ in you. God is the source of all love and Christ is the love that is in you. Because you know love you know Christ. Let me show you a book that teaches you about this love and teaches you how to do the loving will of your father. If he does not believe I have not shut the door. If the door is shut he shuts it. I have made him my equal, there is nothing to convert to, and if he has love he has Christ.

Do you see the difference? I pray that you have the courage to reexamine the New Testament. What I say does not contradict the bible. It is the only interpretation that leads to a message of love.

There are so many other things I wish to share with you. If you believe that the end is near, and you believe that all will be fooled, then believe also that all have been fooled. Satan has only needed to twist one concept for all to be fooled.

I am asking for you to take one more leap of faith on your journey.

If you can believe that Satan has changed one simple concept that has caused all seperation and hate then I beg you to share this with anyone you know. I have posted this on Facebook and on several church pages. I pray that you will read this message and understand so that we may all learn how to be closer to Christ.
edit on 11-1-2012 by sacgamer25 because: (no reason given)




posted on Jan, 11 2012 @ 08:47 PM
link   
reply to post by sacgamer25
 


Dear sacgamer25,



All Christian denominations teach the exact opposite. The church says you must say that you believe in Christ to prove that you have Christ in you.


I must disagree with the claim that all churches teach the opposite, I don't. I teach that we are to have the heart and mind of Christ to be saved. I have also pointed out to others that Moses was saved and did not know the name of Christ; but, did know the heart. I cannot say how many other churches teach the same; but, I am pretty sure that I am not alone. Having said that, I agree that most of the established ones say that you are saved by the name, I am not doubting the power of the name or of the Christ; but, his actions freed us from sin rather than his name.

S&F for you and your post. Peace.

P.S. Expected to be attacked even by Atheists for your post. I have found the Atheists are often more legalistic than even the extreme Christians.
edit on 11-1-2012 by AQuestion because: Addendum



posted on Jan, 11 2012 @ 08:48 PM
link   
reply to post by sacgamer25
 





All Christian denominations teach the exact opposite. The church says you must say that you believe in Christ to prove that you have Christ in you.


Not accurate. We teach that you need to believe in Christ so that he can dwell in you. His Holy Spirit will not dwell in a vessel that is not dedicated to him.

This is what i believe. If a person will not respond to the love of Christ and how he gave himself so that all could be with him, you might as well stow the hellfire and damnation speech because if his love cannot reach their hearts, then fear will not touch them either. They do not believe because they have not been chosen. Not everyone is going to make it to the new heaven and new earth, it's a sad fact. Many will perish.



posted on Jan, 11 2012 @ 08:52 PM
link   
.Grace deals with the sin problem and mercy deals with the misery within us The blood of Jesus Christ clenses us from all sin ....And we love Him because He first loved us ....peace
edit on 11-1-2012 by the2ofusr1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 11 2012 @ 08:59 PM
link   
reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 
I agree ...one only needs to read the book of Jude and it lays out the who what when where and whys of our faith ...peace



posted on Jan, 11 2012 @ 09:35 PM
link   
reply to post by sacgamer25
 


:shk:
you are all wrong, seeing only what you want to see

perpetuating the degeneration
of the original revelation
through constant and convenient interpretation
and an ever hardening heart

from the OP



And this is the secret: Christ lives in you.


me thinks he dies stillborn in most,


until you break open your hardened hearts,

you'll continue being the blind leading the blind



posted on Jan, 11 2012 @ 10:03 PM
link   
reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 


I think God dwells in every human, it is up to the human to realize it. And only when they realize it, will they know the meaning of things like love.



posted on Jan, 11 2012 @ 11:32 PM
link   

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by sacgamer25
 





All Christian denominations teach the exact opposite. The church says you must say that you believe in Christ to prove that you have Christ in you.


Not accurate. We teach that you need to believe in Christ so that he can dwell in you. His Holy Spirit will not dwell in a vessel that is not dedicated to him.

This is what i believe. If a person will not respond to the love of Christ and how he gave himself so that all could be with him, you might as well stow the hellfire and damnation speech because if his love cannot reach their hearts, then fear will not touch them either. They do not believe because they have not been chosen. Not everyone is going to make it to the new heaven and new earth, it's a sad fact. Many will perish.


God is love, if you have love than Christ dwells in you. This is the secret. Everyone can accept this, that has love. This message is a message of equality and fellowship that is true no matter where you or born or what you believed before.

You are correct about the Holy Spirit. Not all have the Holy Spirit in them but all can be led by the Holy Spirit, if they choose to listen.

The problem for most Christians is they have been taught that they receive the Holy Spirit and thus become born again by water Baptism. This is the main reason that they take what is literal in the bible and try to make it non-literal. The main book that those who have not received the baptism don’t understand is Hebrews.

If people were taught that the bible is speaking to all Christians that are at different stages in there walk than they could also accept that not everyone is born again. Thus the book of Hebrews is not for all. I understand the book of Hebrews. For me I have received the gift that is spoken of and because of this I know that I cannot continue to willfully sin. The knowledge that I have been given has been given to me because I have been trusted with much and much is expected. We are only expected to act on what we understand. And we are taught by the Holy Spirit at the pace that is right for us. We are all equal parts of the same body.

Once one understands that they can follow Christ without receiving the Holy Spirit than they can accept that there is nothing wrong with them. Christ knows the heart of the man and one will receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit when they are ready. As Paul says that knowing we are saved even when we are sinners does not mean we should continue to sin. All men who can accept the loving message of Christ, should understand that Christ was in them even when they were a sinner. They should also realize they are all a temple. This understanding should cause one to walk closer to Christ.



posted on Jan, 11 2012 @ 11:38 PM
link   

Originally posted by AQuestion
reply to post by sacgamer25
 


Dear sacgamer25,



All Christian denominations teach the exact opposite. The church says you must say that you believe in Christ to prove that you have Christ in you.


I must disagree with the claim that all churches teach the opposite, I don't. I teach that we are to have the heart and mind of Christ to be saved. I have also pointed out to others that Moses was saved and did not know the name of Christ; but, did know the heart. I cannot say how many other churches teach the same; but, I am pretty sure that I am not alone. Having said that, I agree that most of the established ones say that you are saved by the name, I am not doubting the power of the name or of the Christ; but, his actions freed us from sin rather than his name.

S&F for you and your post. Peace.

P.S. Expected to be attacked even by Atheists for your post. I have found the Atheists are often more legalistic than even the extreme Christians.
edit on 11-1-2012 by AQuestion because: Addendum


Thank you for that my brother because I don't believe many understand this. I have yet to attend a church that teaches this message. I grow tired of churches that teach grace only, as if there is nothing else being said in the bible. Or the prosperity churches that teach people to pray for worldly gain.

To me this is the sign from revelations that people will gather a great number of teachers that will tell them what their itching ears want to hear.

The message that I share and it sounds like you share is one of love and grace. But this is where the message starts not where it ends.

And I do expect to be attacked. The bible tells me to expect it.



posted on Jan, 11 2012 @ 11:40 PM
link   

Originally posted by Mijamija
reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 


I think God dwells in every human, it is up to the human to realize it. And only when they realize it, will they know the meaning of things like love.


I think this is mostly true. I think that some people demonstrate a level of willful sin that there is only one of two possibilities. Either they were not born with love, or they have become so consumed with lust and greed that they have lost the love they were born with. Whether they can be brought back to Christ only God knows.
edit on 11-1-2012 by sacgamer25 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 12 2012 @ 12:10 AM
link   
reply to post by sacgamer25
 


Dear sacgamer25



Thank you for that my brother because I don't believe many understand this. I have yet to attend a church that teaches this message. I grow tired of churches that teach grace only, as if there is nothing else being said in the bible. Or the prosperity churches that teach people to pray for worldly gain.


I regret to say that most pastors, priests and ministers are taught to be repeaters rather than investigators. As for the bible, it teaches so much more as you say. You mentioned end times, it says that in those times there will be many false prophets and a great falling away from the church. That is what the church has become, too many pastors don't even believe in God as a person. Many church pastors now believe that God is just a concept. I won't bother detailing my thoughts on prosperity churches, I will merely say that blasphemy is blasphemy. Wait, I have a story about one of them, Mr. Benny Hinn.

A person who worked for a famous preacher, E.V. Hill (search him online), was responsible for me being tricked into preaching. He told me of a time when Pastor Hill was at an event (I believe it was a TBN show). Mr. Hinn spoke to Pastor Hill and told him that there was going to be an event in Long Beach involving all of the big pastors. He asked Mr. Hill to attend the event and Mr. Hill said that he could not because he was busy. Mr. Hinn said that he had not told him when the event was and Mr. Hill said that no matter when it was he was sure that he would find something else to do. Sounds funny enough so far, right.

Mr. Hill asked Mr. Hinn why he never discussed Jesus in his sermons and Mr. Hinn said that they were beyond that and that all they were interested in was the Holy Spirit. In my humble opinion, these prosperity preachers are the absolute worst. They teach that if you do the proper ritual (claim the name and the promise) that your life will be wonderful and that if it is not then it is your fault for not having enough faith. My bible says that if you believe in God and have the heart of Christ (love and service to others) then you will have to pick up your cross daily.

By the way, I never met Mr. E.V. Hill, I only know one of the pastors that worked for him. I never attended any of the events and this all happened years ago; but, it is what I have been told by the man who convinced me to preach. I will however recommend that anyone that is interested go to YouTube and search for E.V. Hill's eulogy for his wife. It is pretty amazing. Peace.



posted on Jan, 12 2012 @ 12:16 AM
link   
reply to post by sacgamer25
 

If you believe that the end is near, and you believe that all will be fooled, then believe also that all have been fooled. Satan has only needed to twist one concept for all to be fooled.

I have come to the conclusion that "Satan" is the ancient serpent of Revelation, which is in turn another metaphor and I think it comes from what the people of that time understood was the aspects of the universe that had a negative affect on us but there was not much to do against it and had to work around it a bit and of course with the help of our god of choice. The serpent being the residual effects of the creation. Since we could not have the universe without the serpent that came with it, we need to be happy we at least have what we do.
Along with that is the realization that the universe is still relatively new, so we are not to expect the universe to be soon replaced with a new universe, and we need to hope to outlive the serpent somehow and to exist in a future which is a matured universe and again, with the assistance of our god of choice, we should exist in a better world where that old serpent had died away leaving a pretty good universe.



posted on Jan, 12 2012 @ 12:18 AM
link   
reply to post by sacgamer25
 


I think every human is born with gods love....god must have loved them or else they would not have been created in the first place.

I think some are so lost, they have a much more difficult time finding god.

People who are not raised in loving families seem to have the most difficult time, from what I have seen.

How does the saying go?

"mother is the name of god on the lips of children"

I do not know the exact quote, but i think mother or father is the name of god on the lips of children and without a loving parent or at least a loving guardian in a child's life....the more they seem to struggle with loving themself and others, much less knowing gods love.



posted on Jan, 12 2012 @ 10:13 AM
link   

Originally posted by Mijamija
reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 


I think God dwells in every human, it is up to the human to realize it. And only when they realize it, will they know the meaning of things like love.


You need to rethink that because it's not what Jesus says. Preaching contrary to him makes you anti-christ./

John 8: 42-47

42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I have come here from God. I have not come on my own; God sent me. 43 Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say. 44 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. 45 Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me! 46 Can any of you prove me guilty of sin? If I am telling the truth, why don’t you believe me? 47 Whoever belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.”

No one starts out with Jehova as their Father, they start out with Satan the destroyer as their father and his ways are their ways. They do not hear God because they are not of God therefore God is not in them.



posted on Jan, 12 2012 @ 10:20 AM
link   
reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 


That is one interpretation.

1 John 4:16-18 God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them. 17 This is how love is made complete among us so that we will have confidence on the day of judgment: In this world we are like Jesus. 18 There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love.

1 John 4:4-6 4 You, dear children, are from God and have overcome them, because the one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world. 5 They are from the world and therefore speak from the viewpoint of the world, and the world listens to them. 6 We are from God, and whoever knows God listens to us; but whoever is not from God does not listen to us. This is how we recognize the Spirit of truth and the spirit of falsehood.

The more I read this and the more I look at the world, the more I think some our born with Christ in them and some our not. I trace this all the way back to Cain and Able. One following the law of love and one that did not. In the end times it says there will be 2 people one will be taken one will be left.

The more I look at this the harder it is to ignore that God may be saying that there are enqual number of people who are from God and from the world. I know that Christ lives in my 6 year old and I beleive he has since birth.



posted on Jan, 12 2012 @ 10:28 AM
link   

Originally posted by sacgamer25
reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 


That is one interpretation.

1 John 4:16-18 God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them. 17 This is how love is made complete among us so that we will have confidence on the day of judgment: In this world we are like Jesus. 18 There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love.

1 John 4:4-6 4 You, dear children, are from God and have overcome them, because the one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world. 5 They are from the world and therefore speak from the viewpoint of the world, and the world listens to them. 6 We are from God, and whoever knows God listens to us; but whoever is not from God does not listen to us. This is how we recognize the Spirit of truth and the spirit of falsehood.

The more I read this and the more I look at the world, the more I think some our born with Christ in them and some our not. I trace this all the way back to Cain and Able. One following the law of love and one that did not. In the end times it says there will be 2 people one will be taken one will be left.

The more I look at this the harder it is to ignore that God may be saying that there are enqual number of people who are from God and from the world. I know that Christ lives in my 6 year old and I beleive he has since birth.



There are some things he preaches that you take at face value, and there are some that you do not take at face value because he preached them in parables. That is one interpretation you take at face value. During the last half of his ministry he began preaching in parables and utilizing stories to get people who didn't understand him to understand what he was trying to say. The verse i gave you was not apart of a parable, he was speaking openly and plainly.



posted on Jan, 12 2012 @ 10:37 AM
link   
reply to post by sacgamer25
 


Not an athiest. dont get me wrong, i just dont believe you need church to be a good person.

I was born and raised with church, the bible, and hopped from church to church to church. i have probably been to more denominational churches than a lot of people. I was never happy at any of them, it was like standing in a room full of people who felt they were better than me. No heartfelt love and i could feel what everyone said was exactly the opposite of how they lived thought and judged. Maybe its the state i live in. I have become to realize in this state they have a lot of very hypocritical people.

by the time i was in middle school i was in a christian school that used a demerit system and made you do the cleaning for the school, You werent allowed to bring food for lunch even if you could not eat the food they had delivered from the hospital. Everyone there also felt wrong... and the principal had an issue with always scratching his balls, i used to call him mr itchy i cant even remember his real name.

when in high school i was at a different school now but it was k-12 had about 30 people in it. they denied me latin lessons because they felt i was not like the other kids and i would use it for evil, They let me participate in vollyball only because i had a killer spike but nobody talked to me except with that shallow be nice i dont care about you so you dont even have to answer mentality. so i did not talk much except to the outcasts a group of three other kids who felt the same as me, one was a satanist, one was a witch, one was a nazi.

Yeah in a school of 30 people k-12 .... hmmm right?

they did not like my sense of humor, my car had funny stickers on it... so they made me park in the street up a ways because they did not want anyone getting the wrong idea... ok, so a bunch of humorous cartoons are evil... marvin the martian evil.

the principal of that school brought me into the office one day and talked to me about masturbation, asking me if i did, telling me i should not, that people go to hell for doing it. i was honest, i told him i wouldnt even know how if i had wanted to... and he said oh well i suppose its a little easier for boys. I was approx 16? i dont think i had even had a boyfriend yet. Why on earth would i masturbate>? i guess maybe other people do? maybe i am odd?
lol i more think that my childhood situations were a little bit WRONG and it had to do with THESE people who felt i was not good enough, i was a bad student, i will admit that, because i was too smart to believe that these lies in these booklets were real, my history told me that christopher columbus was a good christian man more than what he did. I would have loved to learn about civilizations, geography, science, but we got lectures on all the wonderful things god did. My actual Education i taught myself. Our math was so hard my tutor in college majoring in math had to take it home and research to help me. So i didnt learn well because i didnt have a foundation of knowledge other than god created everything. I remember the final straw that broke organized religion for me was when one of two things happened.

A. A class speaker came in and told the whole school that the sun does not emit enough light to heat or light the earth, he had some weak explanation he said was based on science and if this is true... please correct me...
but he said God provides the heat and light. NOt the sun.

And

B. They decided to have us start learning more and more scripture... now i was willing to go through a little memorization it never hurt anyone but memorization has never been my strong point... but they started having us memorize whole pages, and more... every week. and if by that week you didn't finish your memorization you would get your schoolwork taken away from you as punishment. So in order not to fall behind i had to jump through all these extra hoops, with a year and a half to go i ended up leaving this school because i wanted a diploma from an actual high school, after half of freshmen year and half of senior year there i was still in freshman classes, i couldn't figure anything out. all these things i had to take i did not have the foundation knowledge that other kids had. With three credits left to graduate, they brought me into the office a year and a half after starting at this school, i would have to Re-take my whole of high school because my previous school was not accredited and they wouldnt accept that work, i had already turned 18. i did what most people would do

i walked the hell out of that place, spent four to six years teaching myself got my GED And by the time i was in college i was 25 years old. i became disabled at 24.

so you can see what some may see as an EPIC FAIL organized religion is

im glad that i had the experiences i did, i would not be who i am today without them.



posted on Jan, 12 2012 @ 11:12 AM
link   
reply to post by N3v3rmor3
 


If you can fully understand what I am saying than you know that I agree with you. Organized religion is an EPIC FAIL.


The message in the bible is not what you were taught. Throw away everything that you were taught and listen only to Christ. Would you agree that if everyone lived by the value of love that Christ taught that you would not have had the experience you had? Can you also agree that the value of Christ taught is the way all of us should at least attempt to live our lives?

The message in the bible is simple if you believe in the law of love, the message of Jesus, then you prove that Christ is in you. I don't believe you would have taken your time to post if love was not in you, and because I believe that you have love in you I believe that you have Jesus in you.

You see I am asking you not to concern yourself with religion; Jesus was not concerned with religion. What he was saying is if you see that someone loves than you know they are the same as you. All who live by the law of love have Jesus living with them. This is most likely why you rejected the message of judgment and hate that you were being taught.

If you can find courage to explore the bible again, this time for yourself, I know you will understand what I am saying and what Jesus wants to tell you. Don’t let religion keep you from knowing the love that is inside of you and me. If you simply cannot then follow the love that Christ taught and you will be doing the will of the father. Jesus says anyone who does the will of the father is his brother, sister and mother. The will of the father is to love and care for others more than you love and care for yourself.

My prayers to you that you may find peace in my message, know that you are a child of God and that Jesus is alive in you.



posted on Jan, 12 2012 @ 12:41 PM
link   
reply to post by sacgamer25
 


ty


yes that was an agreement, and i live my life the way i learned by reading, and understanding in my own way... i can feel what your supposed to feel, not what they tell you to feel, i am very sensitive to feelings. I find myself always doing what is best for others as long as it is for good purposes not just because they want, but if they Need.
i would do anything for those i love and if im not loved in return that is fine, they can still come to me if they want but i wont go to them unless they need me. I let go of all of the negativity in my life some years ago to ease the stress and be one with myself, and am still trying to even out my life but i do know i might complain a little but at least i love and do good things and if people judge me thats their problem i dont have to take it anymore ;D i believe i feel whats right and have had enough reading of the bible to be a great person, maybe i will have the courage to pick one up again someday, but it really makes me hate. i hate them for ruining it for me. and that caused a lot of pain and heartbreak for my grandparents who had only my best interest in mind and were being told i was not a godly child.... for questioning why everything was so wrong feeling... ugh
it infuriates me and i need to work on that and forgiving everyone, because i didnt know at that age how sensitive i was, how to manage that, how to socialize, and that not everyone could feel.... like i can.
nobody needs to tell me what, i feel love, right, wrong.



and im super honest with everyone to a fault. lol

just me i guess, and a few others out there like me and you
when very young i believe it is a good way to put love, kindness and understanding in peoples hearts, but as soon as they start to judge is when i believe it stops being helpful.

cheers



posted on Jan, 12 2012 @ 02:22 PM
link   
reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 

Preaching contrary to him makes you anti-christ./

Preaching against Jesus makes one anti-christ, while having a calm mature discussion of beliefs that just so happens to not be in conformity with your personal interpretation of the New Testament just means they have a different religion.
edit on 12-1-2012 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



new topics

top topics



 
9
<<   2  3 >>

log in

join