I was just curious whether Masonry was in the possession of any ancient/secret knowledge or texts. Perhaps it is something that has never been released publicly or something that is always overlooked yet holds a high amount of significance that Masonry knows the truth of. Or perhaps there is something that is taken as false publicly, but Masonry knows the truth about.

I am not asking any Masons to expand on this, but just to give me a reply.

read the book "The Hiram Key" by Christoper Knight

They must have secret knowledge of some sort. Hermatic (spelling?) pasts, ancient gnostic teachings, there must be SOMETHING worth keeping quite about at the top. Alchemy? (my spelling is awful today!)

I don't think they have anything to make the invidual powerful i.e. teaching of physic powers etc. I think its more group knowledge of some artifacts, places or teaching.

Thats my guess.

Originally posted by 7th_Chakra
They must have secret knowledge of some sort. Hermatic (spelling?) pasts, ancient gnostic teachings, there must be SOMETHING worth keeping quite about at the top. Alchemy? (my spelling is awful today!)

I don't think they have anything to make the invidual powerful i.e. teaching of physic powers etc. I think its more group knowledge of some artifacts, places or teaching.

Thats my guess.

Why "at the top?" What does that mean? Do people REALLY believe there is some group of so-called "high degree" Masons who run the entire organization? The THIRD Degree (Master Mason) is the HIGHEST Degree there is. It is conferred in the local Lodge Hall by regular everyday Masons who are bankers, lawyers, police officers, farmers, etc. etc. Local Lodges are overseen by state Grand Lodges over which the Grand Master (elected for a one year term) preside. The Grand Master is the highest "ranking" Mason in a state at any given time. If a 33rd Degree Mason fails to pay his Lodge (3rd Degree) dues, he is suspended and later expelled and guess what....all those so-called "higher degrees" are GONE because the Craft or Blue Lodge (3rd Degree) is the highest degree a Mason will EVER receive.

Oh, and the spelling is "Hermetic" I'll leave off commenting on the rest of the post only because of time constraints but will leave you with this.


When Is A Man A Mason?

“When is a man a Mason? When he can look out over the rivers, the hills, and the far horizon with a profound sense of his own littleness in the vast scheme of things, and yet have faith, hope and courage—which is the root of every virtue. When he knows that down in his heart every man is as noble as himself, and seeks to know, to forgive, and to love his fellowmen.
When he knows how to sympathize with men in their sorrows, yea, even in their sins—knowing that each man fights a hard fight against many odds. When he has learned how to make friends and to keep them, and above all how to keep friends with himself. When he loves flowers, can hunt the birds without a gun, and feels the thrill of an old forgotten joy when he hears the laugh of a little child.
When he can be happy and high minded amid the meaner drudgeries of life. When star crowned trees, and the glint of sunlight on flowing waters, subdue him like the thought of one much loved and long dead. When no voice of distress reaches his ears in vain, and no hand seeks his aid without response. When he finds good in every faith that helps any man to lay hold of divine things and sees majestic meanings in life, whatever the name of that faith may be. When he can look into a wayside puddle and see something beyond sin. When he knows how to pray, how to love, how to hope. When he has kept faith with himself, with his fellowman,
with his God; in his hand a sword for evil, in his heart a bit of song—glad to live, but not afraid to die!
Such a man has found the only real secret of Masonry, and the one which it is trying to give all the world.”
—Joseph Fort Newton

I read the Hiram Key and need to read it again, it certainly doesn't divulge any Masonic secrets it is holding, if there are some and I'm sure there are. It does shed light on some inaccaracys in the Bible. The hardest hitting statement I found in the Book is at the end where it says, (p.357)" America is a young country and for it to match ancient Egypt's longevity it will have to maintain its strong status at least until 4500 AD. But we suspect that the Masonic experiment that found its home in the cosmopolitian land across the ocean to the west will find a far greater conclusion, because it is only another stepping stone on a journey set in motion in southern Iraq at least six thousand years ago.



Makes you wonder what is really going on in Iraq doesn't it?

[edit on 12-9-2004 by TgSoe]

---------------delete

[edit on 12-9-2004 by LTD602]

Originally posted by senrak
“When is a man a Mason? When he can look out over the rivers, the hills, and the far horizon with a profound sense of his own littleness in the vast scheme of things, and yet have faith, hope and courage—which is the root of every virtue. When he knows that down in his heart every man is as noble as himself, and seeks to know, to forgive, and to love his fellowmen.
When he knows how to sympathize with men in their sorrows, yea, even in their sins—knowing that each man fights a hard fight against many odds. When he has learned how to make friends and to keep them, and above all how to keep friends with himself. When he loves flowers, can hunt the birds without a gun, and feels the thrill of an old forgotten joy when he hears the laugh of a little child.
When he can be happy and high minded amid the meaner drudgeries of life. When star crowned trees, and the glint of sunlight on flowing waters, subdue him like the thought of one much loved and long dead. When no voice of distress reaches his ears in vain, and no hand seeks his aid without response. When he finds good in every faith that helps any man to lay hold of divine things and sees majestic meanings in life, whatever the name of that faith may be. When he can look into a wayside puddle and see something beyond sin. When he knows how to pray, how to love, how to hope. When he has kept faith with himself, with his fellowman,
with his God; in his hand a sword for evil, in his heart a bit of song—glad to live, but not afraid to die!
Such a man has found the only real secret of Masonry, and the one which it is trying to give all the world.”
—Joseph Fort Newton

That is the thoughts of most men and WOMEN who have awakened themselves from 'the sleep'. You post NOTHING new to me in that quote, as good as it is. Men and Women all around the world are no doubt of this mindset without even knowing what freemasonry is. I can never understand why masons post this sort of stuff?? it just clearly shows me and others already of this mindset there is no reason to join!

A man or woman of this mindset (and more) does not require an earthly label such as Mason. He/she is simply 'free'.

[edit on 12-9-2004 by 7th_Chakra]

Originally posted by 7th_Chakra
That is the thoughts of most men and WOMEN who have awakened themselves from 'the sleep'. You post NOTHING new to me in that quote, as good as it is. Men and Women all around the world are no doubt of this mindset without even knowing what freemasonry is. I can never understand why masons post this sort of stuff?? it just clearly shows me and others already of this mindset there is no reason to join!

A man or woman of this mindset (and more) does not require an earthly label such as Mason. He/she is simply 'free'.

Dr. J.D. Buck, 33°, a Masonic author of the late 19th and early 20th century, once wrote a book called "Mystic Masonry", where he states that there are many, many Masons and Adepts who have never even heard of Freemasonry, while there are many Lodge members of the highest honors who are, in fact, still of the Profane.
I think Buck would have agreed with your post, as do I, with the exception of "no reason to join", which, I suppose, the individual mut decide for himself if that is his path.

Fiat Lvx.

[edit on 12-9-2004 by Masonic Light]

[edit on 10/2/2004 by esther]

Originally posted by Masonic Light

Dr. J.D. Buck, 33°, a Masonic author of the late 19th and early 20th century, once wrote a book called "Mystic Masonry", where he states that there are many, many Masons and Adepts who have never even heard of Freemasonry, while there are many Lodge members of the highest honors who are, in fact, still of the Profane.
I think Buck would have agreed with your post, as do I, with the exception of "no reason to join", which, I suppose, the individual mut decide for himself if that is his path.

Fiat Lvx.

[edit on 12-9-2004 by Masonic Light]

Well, that's interesting. "Still of the Profane" What do you mean by this? Don't 33 degree members know all there is to know, having gone from degress 1-3, and then from 4 - 33 ?

[edit on 12-9-2004 by LTD602]

My theory

My conclutions is that the UFOs are in reality, a ancient species right from this planet/ solar system. They dont like the idea of humans running things and really want us gone, but the cheepest and most efficent way to do it, is to pitt mankind against each other. They dont take any risks that way, as long as they remain a "non-reality". For the most part, the conduit between the "Alien" (ancient species) has always been cults, and secret societies. But you also have the occasional direct manipulation, or, abduction. This has many reasons from causing out and out insanity, or to cause more disinformation to confuse anyone who might like to research the subject.

[edit on 12-9-2004 by All Seeing Eye]

hehe . . . .cute.

Not quite what I meant . . not by a mile, but cute nonetheless.

Sorry, your right. I dont usually follow Masonic logic.

I am constantly reminded, throughout the theological groups , of the prevailing denial of women within their heirarchies . I believe this will prove to be the eventual downfall of those who continue this abhorrant trend.
I know there are the Daughters of the Eastern Star in the Masonic tradition, but I suspect this is some sort of placebo while they are denied the formal rituals.

Not that I haven't observed the same with (some) Wiccan covens, though.

Geez...isn't it time we got over the seperation of the sexes within these so called 'esoteric' groups?

btw...isn't it kind of arrogant of us to envision Deity in the human form as we do, male or female? Most often this Deity is male...why?

(Hmm...this might be an interesting thread to start in the 'Conspiracy in Religions' board.)

More in keeping to the direction this thread was intended for, I have read all four books by Knight and Lomas...The Hiram Key, The Book of Hiram, Uriel's Machine as well as The Second Messiah and find them most interesting reading as a backdrop to other books such as The White Goddess by Robert Graves, Drawing Down the Moon by M. Adler, Alchemical Studies and Man and his Symbols by C. Jung or even The Golden Bough by J.G. Fraser.

I don't believe anyone has all the answers, but there is a golden thread of truth that can be followed by a lifetime of reading and searching. Knight and Lomas are groping in the dark...no doubt...but they are not sitting on their hands. Their books are enlightening and inspired.

[edit on 10/2/2004 by esther]

Originally posted by masqua
Knight and Lomas are groping in the dark...no doubt...

but they are not sitting on their hands.

I can't stop laughing at your choice of phrasing. I am pleased that they are not groping their buttocks in the dark.

Originally posted by esther

Forgive me for what may seem like a dumb question, but the way you use "profane", do you mean something similar to "common" or "uninitiated"? Like "sacred" vs. "profane" in religious texts?

Yes, it is from the Latin profanum, meaning "before the temple", i.e., the uninitiated. According to Mackey the Eleusinian Mysteries of Ancient Greece opened with the Kerux giving the proclamation "Depart hence, ye Profane", which signified that only the initiated could remain present.

This is somewhat different than the vulgar use of the word, which is now common, but which also probably originated with the ancient Greeks, i.e., the philosophers. Plato considered the "profane" to consist not only of the uninitiated, but all non-philosophers, and both he and Aristotle often referred to the difference between a priori knowledge and "profane" knowledge; for example, the philosophers considered the existence of divine unity in nature to be a priori knowledge, while the belief that rivers were ruled by nymphs, and the seas ruled by a deity named Poseidon was profane knowledge. Eventually, the word "profane" came to signify anything common place, and is now antiquated in its original meaning, used today in its original sense mostly by Masonic writers and philosophers who call "common sense" by its technical philosophical terms, "naive realism" or "profane realism".

Probably more than you wanted to know.

Fiat Lvx.

Originally posted by 7th_Chakra

That is the thoughts of most men and WOMEN who have awakened themselves from 'the sleep'. You post NOTHING new to me in that quote, as good as it is.

Perhaps it's new to someone else though. If so, it was worth time it took to post it, but not worth your time reading it. Perhaps you should put me on "ignore" so you won't have to waste valuable time.

Men and Women all around the world are no doubt of this mindset without even knowing what freemasonry is.

No doubt many are. Many aren't.

I can never understand why masons post this sort of stuff??

Is that a question or just a statement with a double question-mark rather than a period or an exclamation point? At any rate I posted it for those unlike yourself...who already know all about it.

it just clearly shows me and others already of this mindset there is no reason to join!

Obviously Masonry isn't for you. Don't join. No one is forcing or even asking you to.

A man or woman of this mindset (and more) does not require an earthly label such as Mason. He/she is simply 'free'.

I don't "require" it either. I prefer it. Some people don't and therefore shouldn't become Masons. As I've said repeatedly Masonry is NOT for everyone and Masons do NOT want EVERYONE to become a Mason. Pure and simple.



[edit on 12-9-2004 by senrak]

Originally posted by LTD602


Well, that's interesting. "Still of the Profane" What do you mean by this? Don't 33 degree members know all there is to know, having gone from degress 1-3, and then from 4 - 33 ?

A 33° Mason has been initiated into all of the degrees of the Scottish Rite, but that doesn't necessarily mean they've learned anything along the way. Buck's point was that Masonry is an allegorical journey, and that being initiated into a Masonic degree is only symbolic of the real initiation, which occurs within us.
Without the inner initiation, the outward initiation ceremony is meaningless, and as it is written in a Golden Dawn initiation ceremony, "God is the Initiator of the heart."

Thus, a man could receive every degree in every Rite of Masonry, and not necessarily be any better off than he was before he joined the fraternity. Likewise, a person who's never heard of Masonry could have found the inner enlightenment and peace that makes one an Adept. In the ritual of the 32°, the Candidate is told in the opening section "You are here to think if you can think, and learn if you can learn." It's completely up to the individual if he is able to walk away from Masonic initiation with an enlightened heart. The initiation ceremony can point one in the right direction, but cannot force him to travel the Path.

Fiat Lvx.