[edit on 10/2/2004 by esther]

So, uh, is there anything other than philosophical concepts? I was thinking more along the lines of ancient and/or secret knowledge in a mystical or historical manner.

[edit on 12-9-2004 by Jamuhn]

If there is, you wouldn't be told anyway.

[edit on 10/2/2004 by esther]

Oh yea, I'm not asking for details. I was just curious if there are secrets reserved for the initiates in this manner. Do you break an oath of secrecy if you acknowledge a secret exists? I wouldn't think so.

Originally posted by Jamuhn
So, uh, is there anything other than philosophical concepts? I was thinking more along the lines of ancient and/or secret knowledge in a mystical or historical manner.

Mysticism is a branch of philosophy; the two cannot be separated. Consider Pythagoras, a Masonic icon. His solving of the 47th Problem of Euclid constitutes an important part of the Third Degree of Masonry, and the geometric Pythagorean Theorem is the Past Masters Jewel for English Freemasons.

It was he who coined the term "philosopher". A wanderer from Athens once sought him out, and asked Pythagoras to teach him because he had heard he was the wisest man in he world. Pythagoras responded by saying "Only God is wise. I am merely a philo sophia (lover of wisdom)."

Mysticism is simply the love of wisdom in its metaphysical sense, and Freemasonry is very much a Philosophical Society. Modern philosophical minds such as Leibniz, Kierkegaard, Voltaire, Rousseau, Franklin, Goethe, and Burke all joined Freemasonry because of their interest in philosophy.

Fiat Lvx.

[edit on 12-9-2004 by Masonic Light]

Yes, secrets do exist. What those are exactly . . . . dunno.

On the application form, it asks you to sign on the dotted line if you wish to be initiated into the "Mysteries of Masonry." What "mysteries" means, I don't know.

Maybe by the 33rd degree it will become clear, if I deserve it. Maybe not. The beauty, for me, is in not knowing, until the time comes.

[edit on 12-9-2004 by LTD602]

Originally posted by Jamuhn
Oh yea, I'm not asking for details. I was just curious if there are secrets reserved for the initiates in this manner. Do you break an oath of secrecy if you acknowledge a secret exists? I wouldn't think so.

I fully acknowledged that a secret exists. It's at the very bottom part of the quote I posted. It plainly says that it's the "only real secret of Masonry." It's up to the individual Mason to discover that secret. No initiation, no title or degree can "give" it to him. He must earn it...learn it. Then he must use it. Sorry that sounds vague but it's just one of those things that must be experienced to fully understand and appreciate.

Regards

Originally posted by senrak
When Is A Man A Mason?

“When is a man a Mason? When he can look out over the rivers, the hills, and the far horizon with a profound sense of his own littleness in the vast scheme of things, and yet have faith, hope and courage—which is the root of every virtue. When he knows that down in his heart every man is as noble as himself, and seeks to know, to forgive, and to love his fellowmen.
When he knows how to sympathize with men in their sorrows, yea, even in their sins—knowing that each man fights a hard fight against many odds. When he has learned how to make friends and to keep them, and above all how to keep friends with himself. When he loves flowers, can hunt the birds without a gun, and feels the thrill of an old forgotten joy when he hears the laugh of a little child.

When he can be happy and high minded amid the meaner drudgeries of life. When star crowned trees, and the glint of sunlight on flowing waters, subdue him like the thought of one much loved and long dead. When no voice of distress reaches his ears in vain, and no hand seeks his aid without response. When he finds good in every faith that helps any man to lay hold of divine things and sees majestic meanings in life, whatever the name of that faith may be. When he can look into a wayside puddle and see something beyond sin. When he knows how to pray, how to love, how to hope. When he has kept faith with himself, with his fellowman, with his God; in his hand a sword for evil, in his heart a bit of song—glad to live, but not afraid to die!

Such a man has found the only real secret of Masonry, and the one which it is trying to give all the world.”
—Joseph Fort Newton

It is strange watching these people have their questions answered, but fail to see the answer when it is presented. Your search for the great Masonic secret is over. I suggest that those which fail to see the revelation of the Masonic secret in the profound simplicity of this quote to reread this quote as many times as needed, until you understand it. Next comes the real challenge, living it.
.

df1!! You're the one who inspired me to start this thread by saying there were secrets in an esoteric manner, which i took mean in a metaphysical sense.

*sighs* It's hard to get a straight answer here. Ok, time to rephrase again.

Does Masonry as an organization portend that any metaphysical concepts are absolutely true? Wouldn't a metaphysical concept also include theosophy in such a case?

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills here LOL, or maybe I should be reading between the lines, just too many cryptic and broad responses on this one.

[edit on 12-9-2004 by Jamuhn]

Originally posted by Jamuhn
df1!! You're the one who inspired me to start this thread by saying there were secrets in an esoteric manner, which i took mean in a metaphysical sense.

*sighs* It's hard to get a straight answer here. Ok, time to rephrase again.

Does Masonry as an organization portend that any metaphysical concepts are absolutely true? Wouldn't a metaphysical concept also include theosophy in such a case?

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills here LOL, or maybe I should be reading between the lines, just too many cryptic and broad responses on this one.

[edit on 12-9-2004 by Jamuhn]

Oh! NOW I understand the question. igh>

How's this for a simple (hopefully understandable answer?)

The answer to your questions (as just posed) is

No.

[edit on 10/2/2004 by esther]

Beautifully said, esther . . . .

My advice to Jahmun: Become a Mason, advance through the degrees, pursue the ritual and learning aspect especially, and by the end of the road, you'll know it.

Wow, all this curiosity. Yet, how many applications for Masonry will actually arise from this curiosity? Let's see just how serious everyone is about discovering Masonic "secrets."

SIGN UP . . . . .or, you'll just continue to waste time and demonstrate to everyone that you're not really serious. In that case, might I suggest www.disney.com

[edit on 13-9-2004 by LTD602]

Sign up?

And here I thought you had to be invited. I've been asked twice to join the local lodge over the past 20 years but just couldn't bring myself to it, even though extended family members have been involved most of their lives.

I've had this (probably mistaken) idea that nepotism and favour were the main reasons to join, rather than a search for esoteric truth.

What the lodges do to help finance hospitals, etc., is great, though, but I think my immediate family gives through enough charities to make up for that.

Originally posted by esther
Spoken best by Pontius Pilate: "What is Truth?"

Exactly esther, but allow me to quote the entire dialog. Pilate said: “What is truth? Is it some unchanging law? We all have truths. Are mine the same as yours?”

I have read various books on Masonic philosophy and I have found many truths, however I can not guarantee that anyone else will find those truths by reading the same books. IMHO Masonry contains many truths and secrets, however they are to be found by the individual Mason, not the collective body of Masonry.

Does Masonry provide a foundation and resources to find the truths and secrets of lifes journey? I would say yes it does.
.

Originally posted by Jamuhn

Does Masonry as an organization portend that any metaphysical concepts are absolutely true? Wouldn't a metaphysical concept also include theosophy in such a case?

Yes. Masonry, as an organization, recognizes several metaphysical truths, most notable the existence of a Divinity whom it generally characterizes as the Grand Architect of the Universe, the existence of moral absolutes, and the familial relations of humankind with each other under the guidance of Providence, generally summed up in the motto "The Brotherhood of Man under the Fatherhood of God."

Fiat Lvx.

[edit on 10/2/2004 by esther]

Quote: "I was just curious whether Masonry was in the possession of any ancient/secret knowledge or texts. Perhaps it is something that has never been released publicly or something that is always overlooked yet holds a high amount of significance that Masonry knows the truth of."

Ah - now its gets interesting -> As we step into the Abyss of the Tao!

GATU = Ain Soph

Originally posted by 7th_Chakra
They must have secret knowledge of some sort. ........

..........I don't think they have anything to make the invidual powerful i.e. teaching of physic powers etc. I think its more group knowledge of some artifacts, places or teaching.

Thats my guess.

Just for curiousity, why would you offer your uninformed guess? With so many masons here more than willing to explain for Jaumhn, why muddy the waters. There's enough Masonic disinformation floating on the internet, I think.





[edit on 13-9-2004 by DontTreadOnMe]

Originally posted by Jamuhn
I was just curious whether Masonry was in the possession of any ancient/secret knowledge or texts. Perhaps it is something that has never been released publicly or something that is always overlooked yet holds a high amount of significance that Masonry knows the truth of. Or perhaps there is something that is taken as false publicly, but Masonry knows the truth about.

I am not asking any Masons to expand on this, but just to give me a reply.

Not really, according to several Masonic historians.

The tales about the ancientness of the order (which does NOT hold up, by the way) was similar to many claims by other organizations at about the same time. There weren't any secret and mysterious documents handed around and while the old lodge books are interesting, there's nothing that's unusual in them.

It's kind of standard "secret society" stuff and initiations.