Glenn Beck vs Ron Paul on Israel

reply to post by Sagittarian69


I believe originally the protection of Isreal meant that they would not allow genocide to occur to their race ever again. I doubt it meant they would support their conquering of the middle east. However, now people believe it's an "all or nothing" deal. We have to be as zionistic as them or we aren't their allies.

Same goes for anyone jewish not returning to Isreal or marrying a non-isrealite.

Your either with them or against them, it's not enough to help them protect themselves from mass destruction.

Now when they say "Iran could wipe us off the face of the earth with a nuke" the Americans are supposed to Invade. That's exactly what's happening.
So the question is, who leads America?

The USA has become the world police not only through its military might but due to other countries opinions of another country. Not helping is equal to doing the killing yourselves, at least that's what we are led to believe.

Being a the most powerful nation draws you into conflict after conflict, not always by your own choice. Sometimes due to others choices. I like Ron Paul's idea of staying out of foreign affairs, even though he didn't invent that idea, it makes sense.

Originally posted by thehoneycomb
reply to post by rogerstigers

 

Because if Israel goes so does the west and they will kill you in the same fashion as any jew.

The west is already going to fall because we lost to the communists in Vietnam. At least that's what we were told back in the '60s.

reply to post by Sagittarian69
Glen Beck...what to say,well he really thinks he's smarter than anyone all he's doing is what every other msm outlet is doing and that's attacking Ron Paul,especially since becoming a threat to the status quo.He's taking the soft approach,instead of the full blown frontal attack he's trying to get to the Dr. Paul supporters by agreeing with them...Glen Beck is no better than the rest of the criminals in the media.

Originally posted by Inarismessenger
watch his right hand at 00:20



hidden hand much?

chill.

Geeezz Glenn Beck.
I used to TIVO his show everyday until he said the people that want a better investigation for 9/11 were idiots and unamerican ect ect. After that my eyes were open to his double speak. Glenn is very good at getting his viewers to listen to him because he will say abunch of things he knows people will agree with and then throws somthing in there that is a complete 180. Tricky tricky Mr. Beck, that may fool your average dumb down viewer but people have started waking up to your 'type' of tactic. Shame shame tricking people who dont know any better.

At the begining he says good things about Dr. Paul, then says he wouldnt trust him, then he concluded with we should vote for Ron Paul because he is going in the direction of the people. [double speak much]

So could he be supporting Ron while still keeping his Foxnews handlers happy, with the Israel BS. (I know hes not with fox anymore)

reply to post by sonnny1


Beck makes a point in that vid how if RP isn't nominated by the GOP he may be forced to run as an independent, thereby pulling votes from the GOP frontrunner. And the GOP just may hate RP more than Obama and let it happen by denying RP the nomination.

Funny how Beck contradicts himself saying how RP is wrong about provoking the Arabs, then he goes on to talk about how we shouldn't be fighting wars for oil.

I also laughed when he mentioned how divided we are when he's such a polarizing influence. Pot meet kettle.

What really gets me though is why he's so pro-Israel. It almost sounds like he's pro-Israel because he's anti-Muslim but I can't be sure.

Originally posted by thehoneycomb
reply to post by MrWendal

 

I think he was saying that we need anybody but Obama. Ron Paul would be a better candidate, but a vote for Ron Paul counts against a more mainstream candidate. So the party would be divided once again, even amongst liberals who are in favor of Ron Paul and that Obama would get a second term by default.

Think very carefully about what you are saying here....

If Ron Paul wins the GOP nomination, that would mean he has the vote of the majority of Republicans.

It is common knowledge that Ron Paul polls well amoungst Independents and even Democrats. So with that in mind, how does that automatically mean Obama wins?

What you are saying is exactly how our media influences people's decisions.

Think Beckie is doin some serious Baccy. I don't think anyone would fall for some of the crap he comes out with. Why can't you be pro Israel and not be anti islam at the same time.

Since Glenn Beck is no longer part of Foxnews does anyone know if he has said anything about Ron Paul since starting his own network. I occasionally listen to him while driving (he is entertaining even if you don't buy into his perspective). I haven't heard any specific statements other then he has repeatedly said he pretty much agrees with Ron Paul except for most of his foreign policy.

As far as reason's to support Isreal, here are my personal ones....I think overall they make pretty general reasons for anybody (except maybe the first), or are the same as the general reason this country has always supported Isreal.

1. I am a Christian (farily evangelical, and dispensationalist) so it's kind of a religous requirement for various reasons so to speak. I don't nessecarily agree with everything Isreal does or how they do it, but in general I support them. Not to mention, to most American's of Judeo Christian heritage it is the HOLY land, and the idea of that area falling under dominant Muslim Control is repugnant, knowing how they tend to treat treasures of any faith besides Islam.

2. Putting number 1 aside, since we as a society share the same basic Judeo-Christian Moral's...it ties us socially/culturally to Isreal. Islam maybe an Abrahamic Faith, but it's general culture runs pretty counter to modern Western/Judeo Christian Values.

3. Only functional representative democracy in the Middle East. Essentially a western country in the Middle East/Eastern sphere of the world. We would protect the UK, Franch, Germany, and the rest of Western Europe if threatened, so by extenison we should do the same.

4.We do have quite a bit of trade with Isreal. Technology especially. Now much of that is military based, but it still provides jobs in the US.

5. Like it or not (or think that it's a conspiracy or not), there are many influenctial Jewish people in the US and a sizable number of those of the Jewish faith (regardless of influence) in the general population. When you through in (mostly) evangelical Christian's....this is a sizable voting block, that most running politicians can't ignore. Essentially, supporting Isreal is the will of a sizable (about 50% give or take, haven't seen a recent poll) chunk of the US population.

6. Finally I think there is still a latent national feeling of sorrow, shame, or even guilt because of the holocaust. And with various groups/leaders/countries continually threatening Isreal, there is the national cry of "never again".

That's my reasons.

Oh, and yes, I know about the USS Liberty, I know about Isreali "terrorism", again I don't agree with everything Isreal does, just as I don't agree with everything we (USA) does. But that is my reasons.

This is what I tell my folks when they can vote for Ron Paul doesn't support Israel. In the Bible, it says Israel will stand by herself in the endtimes. Are you saying you want to go against the Word of God? I myself am a Christian but I believe that there are people that use the word of God to push their own agenda. I can't stand that

I cant believe this question is even being asked, considering they did 9/11 id suggest the US should get justice for the 2996 who died, im sure this has been posted many times over the years but here is Ehud Barak outlining the war on terror just an hour after the towers fell, he also drops the name Bin Laden several times prompting the bbc reporter to state that we are not saying Bin Laden was responsible, at 8:03 he nearly slips up and says explosions. At this point everyone else is talking about launching investigations not wars, Bush included.

www.youtube.com...

here is the link to the archive im sure this video was taken from.
www.archive.org...

Barak was a former director of this agency, its interesting how the page for Amos Malka (in charge until 2001) has been deleted. I wanted to know more about this guy but it seems now I cant. I particularly want to know if he was the boss on the day or left before hand. If anyone knows please elighten me.
en.wikipedia.org...

Steve Pieczenik saying it was a false flag attack.
www.youtube.com...

Rather than focus on details like, was it nano thermite, holograms bla bla, we should look at simple things like this. Is Steve Pieczenik not a reliable source or something?

I guess the only way America will ever believe is if they get a signed confession, precious Israel with all their lobbying power, they run your government, please do something about that and please stop arming them.

Thanks

reply to post by wardk28


Agreed, but there are many reasons America might not be standing with Isreal in the end times. Hopefully not of our own volition. Abraham was told, "I shall bless those that bless you and curse those that curse you". I fear for the US if we by choice turn against Isreal.

Personally I see Isreal standing alone because America has likely been severly happered by the Rapture of the Church......but there are many many possibilites. Financial collapse, integration to a world government, nuclear attack could all be reasons why America is essentially absent from Revelations.

reply to post by thehoneycomb


I very much doubt, that, sounds like paranoia to me. While I think Israel has the right to exist, so does Palestine, and Israel creates a rod for it's own back by it's constant distrust and heavy handedness against the Arabs, it has been very aggressive, and has committed many war crimes, but it's constant and very succesfull Anti Islamic campaign of hate and fear mongering has duped many into believing that all Muslims have bombs under ther coats, and the Israelis are really hard done by. Perhaps if the Israeli government acted like adults, maybe the the Palestinians would meet them half way

reply to post by SrWingCommander


I found your reasons enlightening. As, personally, I cannot see any reasons a person would agree with the US supporting Israel. I respect your views, all the same I'd like to reply.

Reasons 1 and 2 are basically the same reasons Arab nations support the Palestinians.

Reason 3 is similar to why America went to war in Korea, Vietnam and basically the Cold war with the USSR, which all achieved nothing except killing millions of innocent people and costing billions upon billions, in my opinion.

Reason 4 is not a good reason to support any country in such a volatile position, how many people will die, US and others, if it does 'kick off' with Iran? You say jobs, I say lives.

Reason 5 is a fact, a lamentable fact in my opinion, zionist influence is the US could ultimately cause the death and suffering of millions of innocents.

Reason 6 is what I call the 'guilt trip', and it is one of the main reasons the state of Israel exists in the first place. We sane rational compassionate people abhor the actions of the Nazi regime before and during WW2, however it does not, and never will, justify the deaths and sufferings of what the Israelis themselves see as 'sub-humans' - the Palestinians.

Overall I see you are a religious person, if you are a true Christian you should denounce the actions of the Israeli government against the Palestinians, regardless of their faith, they are ordinary God fearing people and just because they don't share your religious views they should be treated with compassion. Oppression and tyranny should be despised by all good people.

Originally posted by seabhac-rua

Originally posted by thehoneycomb
reply to post by rogerstigers

 

Neutral is cool with me. I am just trying to make you think of the implications of what would happen.

How many people on ATS slander Israel on a daily basis? How many of them and many of them would say the same thing about Iran?

Point is that the rhetoric these people are using towards Israel is violent, (not you). How many people here just on this site talk that way about Iran?

I The state of Israel is an aggressor, and has been since it's inception after WW2, the people of Palestine are being treated like animals, and are resisting as any people would. Other Arab nations see the plight of the Palestinians and support them, this is a natural reaction. The US supports Israel because of the power of the zionist agenda in Washington, this is absolutely ridiculous. You should read a little history, get out a map, and take a look at what's really happening here, it's not that bloody hard to see the truth.

edit on 21-12-2011 by seabhac-rua because: (no reason given)

Actually, maybe you should read some history. When Isreal was founded two things happened.

1). A coalition of Arab countries attacked Isreal, with the entent of "wiping them out".

2) Immediately before Isreal's creation, the Arab states (mostly Jordan, some Syrian and Saudi's too) were pushed into the area known as Palestine. After Isreal's creation and subsequent victory in the 48 war, those same Jordanians were allowed to go home. Except their home countries would now not accept them. The Arab countries created this "Palestinian Problem" to be a thorn in Isreal's side and it is to this day. But it seems like this has been forgotten (more likely people look at the plight of the "Palestinians" (Jordanians and Syrians) and then say "look at mean ole' Isreal and what they are doing to these people", and emotion takes over. ( By the way, I am not saying that the Isreali's couldn't handle the situation better, I think they probably could, but that is beside the point.)

By the way this is the main reason there are both Islamic and Christian Arabs that are citizens of Isreal (some even serve in the IDF). Since the region was essentially ungoverned anyone was given the opprotunity to become part of the new nation. Yes it was and is essentially "Jewish" but is a representative Democracy with freedom of religon..

I paraphrased the quote to get to the point and cut down encase I went past post length.

reply to post by SrWingCommander


Thanks for that. Yes maybe I do need to learn more about the history of this problem.

reply to post by seabhac-rua


Fair enough.

I would only say the following.

In so far as the "zionist influence" I don't think the "zionist" as many like to call them are out to kill millions and billions of people. Unless you are using a different definition then my understanding of it. A "zionist" is someone who would like to see Isreal have the land they were promisied in the Old Testement, and previously enhabitited. Initially, this would be from the Mediterrain to the Euphrates, but in actuallity and historically (as far as what the Hebrew people actually possesed), really only is about the area of the post 1967 boarders (I would have to do some digging, but I think this is the main reason the IDF stopped their advances where and when they did, and not press on further, which they easily could have).

Also, I don't nessecarily agree with how the Palestinians are treated. However; when you look at how entrenched the PLO and Hamas is within that general population and their history against Isreal (and the West)_, I don't see what else Isreal can really do. A two state solution is, for various reasons, not likely to stop any of the violence or problems, and may lead to more.

reply to post by seabhac-rua


If you do study the issue, you might want to look at Yasser Arafats connections to the Nazi's......

Cut Israel loose. We need our money to rebuild America. Let them find another patsy to kill Muslims for them.

reply to post by SrWingCommander


But we can stand with Israel without getting involved in it's affairs. Israel is a major powerhouse in the middle east. If it came to it where she is being attacked and is outnumbered, we should offer aid. Going down the road we are now, I'm thinking Israel is alone in the endtimes because we collapse finanically.