Your right to 'Bear Arms'

reply to post by AstroBuzz

funny ;but you're not"helping"...The founders didn't intend a free people to remain free by owning "fuzzy gloves.."

Originally posted by browsey
Personally i would not ever live in America, i have visited it, i like the place but due to the ridiculous gun laws, i can't feel the need to feel safe and call a place home that is extremely dangerous, im sorry id much rather live with your friends up north or down south (Canada and South Americas).

Then there is really nothing to discus with you.
Not American, don't live in America and would not reside here.
Good bye then.

The term “regulated” as used in the second amendment is derived from the British “Regular” line solider.

Each British Regular (line solider) was issued the exact same equipment and armament.

The second amendment reads

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

And as “Submarine” as pointed out Washington, himself knew the meaning of regulated when he called for uniform arms to be purchased and issued to the citizenry.

Washington advice was undertaken and his issues addressed by the Province that he was speaking to, the Virginia Colony, who in fact enacted legislation under State law , the Virginia Militia Act of 1785.

As it should be,

each State of the Union, is responsible for their own Militia, and regulating there of,

NEVER is it the right or place of the Federal Government to undertake any action in this area.

But I dont want bear arms Im quite happy with my not soo hairy human ones!

Originally posted by 46ACE
reply to post by AstroBuzz

 

funny ;but you're not"helping"...The founders didn't intend a free people to remain free by owning "fuzzy gloves.."

Are you kidding? Those claws are deadly!

I fully support the 2nd Amendment.

Originally posted by Submarines

Originally posted by 46ACE

Originally posted by Submarines
The second ammendment:

As ratified by the States and authenticated by Thomas Jefferson, Secretary of State:


A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.


Everyone seems to leave out the first part.A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state,,

This part states the reason that we were given the right to bear arms. IMO, there has been far too much interpretation to the 2nd ammendment. Independent interpretation has taken a simple sentence and created a monster. I think if the Founding Fathers new that we would have small weapons that can cause mass destruction, this ammendment would have been written differently. On the other hand, maybe the Founding Fathers gave us way too much credit, and figured that we would be smart enough to read the entire ammendment as it was written.

"WELL REGULATED" in the language of the day meant :"well trained disciplined and equipped" or a highly "effective unit". Not heavily "legislated".

Try:" A well equipped "militia"( a paramilitary force comprised of "the people") is necessary for a free state to exist; So the right to keep and bear arms SHALL NOT be infringed.

Its clear they were maintaining military grade weapons in the hands of civilians to employ in the event the people needed to relieve themselves of a tyrannical govt.
It's so clear it makes my eyes bleed!

The smooth bore muzzle loading musket WAS the penultimate military service arm of the day.The "assault rifle" of it's day.it's clear the founders knew we needed weapons; ball and powder( ammunition) on hand to prevent tyranny.!!!

edit on 19-12-2011 by 46ACE because: (no reason given)

edit on 19-12-2011 by 46ACE because: (no reason given)

edit on 19-12-2011 by 46ACE because: (no reason given)

No disrespect intended, but you are incorrect. The above is your interpretation of what was written. Whether you came to that yourself, or you heard someone say it.

Please read George Washington's own words:

General Washington said:
"The distinction between a well regulated Army, and a Mob, is the good order and discipline of the first, and the licentious and disorderly behaviour of the latter." (August 25, 1776)

"The irregular and disjointed State of the Militia of this Province, makes it necessary for me to inform you... your first object should be a well regulated Militia Law." (January 24, 1777)

"For want of proper Laws in the Southern Governments, their Militia were never well regulated; and since the late Troubles, in which the Old Governments have been unhinged, and new ones not yet firmly established, the people have adopted a mode of thinking and Acting for themselves." (March 6, 1777)

"The Citizens of America (with a few legal and official exceptions) from 18 to 50 Years of Age should be borne on the Militia Rolls, provided with uniform Arms, and so far accustomed to the use of them, that the Total strength of the Country might be called forth at a Short Notice on any very interesting Emergency, for these purposes they ought to be duly organized into Commands of the same formation... By keeping up in Peace 'a well regulated, and disciplined Militia,' we shall take the fairest and best method to preserve, for a long time to come, the happiness, dignity and Independence of our Country." (May 1, 1783)
President Washington said:
"The devising and establishing of a well regulated militia, would be a genuine source of legislative honor... carrying to its full energy the power of organizing, arming, and disciplining the militia; and thus providing, in the language of the constitution, for calling them forth to execute the laws of the union, suppress insurrections, and repel invasions." (Address to Congress, November 19, 1794)

Thank you for posting: I believe what I said as far as "equipped and disciplined" applies to your argument.

it clearly does not just mean: "heavily legislated". "regulated" does not mean "regulation"(as we know it) but as in "controlled and disciplined;" and because that "peoples militia" (everyone18-50 is to be carried on those roles")is "necessary"; the right of the people to bear arms SHALL NOT be infringed.

Added:" And I might add we "should" even be issued "uniform arms" hmm what is the "uniform arm" of the U.S govt? The 3round burst (class III)m-4 carbine???????????? SIGN MY AZZ UP!!!!!!!I;'ll take two please! in basic black will be fine.
Finally a govt giveaway I can get behind! The:"No patriot left behind act" !!!!!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by macman

Originally posted by browsey
Personally i would not ever live in America, i have visited it, i like the place but due to the ridiculous gun laws, i can't feel the need to feel safe and call a place home that is extremely dangerous, im sorry id much rather live with your friends up north or down south (Canada and South Americas).

Then there is really nothing to discus with you.
Not American, don't live in America and would not reside here.
Good bye then.

I repeat, i like the place, i have been there, would go again happily, but to me living in a place with such extreme laws, i wouldn't feel safe without a gun, and why should i have the right to easily kill a man, and be told and taught grabbing your gun i the safest option.. for anything, pretty messed up to me.

But if thats the way you feel, whether you be xenophobic, or simply a "We dont take kindly.." kinda guy, but with that attitude say goodbye to tourism and get used to recession.

What matter does it make that i am not American? Nothing, this is not an american only board, and certainly should discriminate on any subject from where a user may be from, so take your closed off mind elsewhere, and go cry on your guns' shoulder.

also i do not take every word Michael Moore has to say at all, i find him extremely hard to bear, but yet as a freethinker, i take all information and come to my OWN conclusions, not taking other peoples'.

Originally posted by 46ACE


...(except for a short(2year active duty tour in Europe);

I have yet to see a gun shot victim.(ever)

edit on 19-12-2011 by 46ACE because: (no reason given)

First I have to say "thank you for your service"!

Also, I agree, I have been around firearms all my life, and have never seen one kill anybody. Even when I'm deer hunting I still have to aim and pull the trigger MYSELF......the gun simply will not do it on its own.

I am so sick of people using gun deaths in the US as a statistic. How many of those deaths resulted from defense of a crime? Also, do you really think that taking away law abiding citizen's right to bear arms is going to reduce ANY gun crimes? When is the last time an armed burglar, or violent criminal gave a S*** whether or not he was legally carrying whatever firearm he/she used in the crime? The fact is criminals will always have access to weapons, if you take away our rights to be armed, then you only give criminals a higher advantage.

Originally posted by vogon42

Originally posted by 46ACE


...(except for a short(2year active duty tour in Europe);

I have yet to see a gun shot victim.(ever)

edit on 19-12-2011 by 46ACE because: (no reason given)

First I have to say "thank you for your service"!

Also, I agree, I have been around firearms all my life, and have never seen one kill anybody. Even when I'm deer hunting I still have to aim and pull the trigger MYSELF......the gun simply will not do it on its own.

Im glad, i do agree with ' a gun cant kill itself' you do need someone to pull the trigger, i just believe people should make it harder for people to access guns, whether it be mental or criminal insanity or what i dont know but something more needs to be done to make guns less accessible.

I have no problem with hunting, hunting shotguns/rifles are available in the UK with license, must be kept safely i.e lock box or whatever, so stories like :

6 year old kills 6 year old in Flint,

Police dog shoots policeman while they mess around and put the gun on its back. - so why were these people police officers if they 'play' around with guns, guns, especially to a policeman are not toys.

Originally posted by browsey

Im glad, i do agree with ' a gun cant kill itself' you do need someone to pull the trigger, i just believe people should make it harder for people to access guns...

6 year old kills 6 year old in Flint,

Police dog shoots policeman while they mess around and put the gun on its back.....

You just have to face the fact that there are idiots in every crowd, yes even in law enforcement. I served 11 year as Military Police....I can tell you (although very few) there are some of questionable intelligence there as well.

BUT....for the harder to get part, no way. Most criminals are not allowed to have the weapon in the first place, but if you make a living selling drugs....chance are your not bothered by the fact that your pistol is not registered....and its also stolen.....and it has also been used in other crimes.

3 years ago I called the local PD to my house. The rifle I had pointed at the "gentleman" in my back yard - I LEGALLY own. The pistol this dude pulled on my WIFE - he did not legally own.

Originally posted by EvanB
But I dont want bear arms Im quite happy with my not soo hairy human ones!

AHA I have you now!: Zo; ! You like ze' "BARE ARMS????????????????????

reply to post by browsey


So, hyperbole and poetic nonsense.
Like the whole xenophobe comment, Nice touch.
Clueless.

Please, stay out of the US. I think you are better off.

I think Americans have a right to do and choose as Americans see fit.

I also think that there is far more of an inherent gun culture within the USA than there is in most, if not all, other 'Western' countries.
The right to self-protection through the use of arms is simply a part of the national psyche.
In addition hunting as both a pastime and as a business is engrained in a large part of US culture.

However, I think it's ridiculous to justify the right to bear arms by claiming an armed civilian population could realistically be a match for a tyrant supported by the US military.
It would be like using a pea-shooter to stop a tank.

And the thing that pisses me off the most is Americans chiming in at every opportunity trying to say that everything that happens in the UK or continental Europe is as a direct result of us not having a right to bear arms.
Bollocks.

I respect your right to bear arms, please respect our right and desire not to bear arms.

Originally posted by Freeborn
I think Americans have a right to do and choose as Americans see fit.

I also think that there is far more of an inherent gun culture within the USA than there is in most, if not all, other 'Western' countries.
The right to self-protection through the use of arms is simply a part of the national psyche.
In addition hunting as both a pastime and as a business is engrained in a large part of US culture.

However, I think it's ridiculous to justify the right to bear arms by claiming an armed civilian population could realistically be a match for a tyrant supported by the US military.
It would be like using a pea-shooter to stop a tank.

Point taken:

but what is the only other option absolutely no means of self determination? If every German Jew had a bolt action rifle and a couple of boxes of cartridges: the SS would've run out of henchmen well before the tanks came rolling in:. they would not have attempted the round ups in the first place.

No I can't knock out a tank with a hunting rifle:BUT "A rifle behind every blade of grass" IS an awesome deterrent in and of itself. Ask the Japanese.

Originally posted by Freeborn

And the thing that pisses me off the most is Americans chiming in at every opportunity trying to say that everything that happens in the UK or continental Europe is as a direct result of us not having a right to bear arms.

As do "Smarmy euro socialists" coming in here decrying our "violence problems"
like you have some inherent adult/child responsibility to protect us from ourselves!
We seek neither your counsel nor your permission ;Sir.
Good day and may your chains of subjugation weigh lightly upon your shoulders...

Originally posted by Freeborn

Bollocks.

I respect your right to bear arms, please respect our right and desire not to bear arms.

Originally posted by Freeborn

And the thing that pisses me off the most is Americans chiming in at every opportunity trying to say that everything that happens in the UK or continental Europe is as a direct result of us not having a right to bear arms.......

I don't think its everything that happens......its just that the strategy worked so well for Hitler.
(no I'm not poking fun at you....or trying to make light of it..PLEASE dont take it that way....its just that some people study history because they know it repeats itself.)

Originally posted by macman
reply to post by browsey

 

So, hyperbole and poetic nonsense.
Like the whole xenophobe comment, Nice touch.
Clueless.

Please, stay out of the US. I think you are better off.

Firstly, Freeborn, very well said.

Now macman, i would heed your advise and stay as far away from America IF i thought everyone their was like you. However i know a few bad apples can spoil a bunch, so i do not hold any grudge agains't American people, however i would never want to come close to someone like you whop would much rather draw guns and ask questions later, being a cowboy gets you nowhere, best case scenario, guy enters, you shoot him rather than letting the police do their job, (Albeit a #ty job) and spend 14 years incarcerated, it happens, i am not ready to be a killer, and never will be.

You'd think one of the youngest countries and apparent most multi cultural would be respectful of others, and their forefathers, because unless your one of the few native americans that WASN'T slaughtered, its very likely the reason why you feel the need to sleep with a loaded magnum under your pillow is because of all the guilt and bloodshed on your people's hands, take a moment to look at yourself before you judge others.

reply to post by browsey


So now I am a cowboy?
I would say too much Hollywood nonsense for you.

You obviously have no clue about me or in general.

Please, stay away. You sound like you better off where you are.

Again, a retort with anti talking points, an attempt at shaming me about this or that and basically BS.
Sure sure!!

Originally posted by browsey

Originally posted by macman
reply to post by browsey

 

So, hyperbole and poetic nonsense.
Like the whole xenophobe comment, Nice touch.
Clueless.

Please, stay out of the US. I think you are better off.

Firstly, Freeborn, very well said.

Now macman, i would heed your advise and stay as far away from America IF i thought everyone their was like you. However i know a few bad apples can spoil a bunch, so i do not hold any grudge agains't American people, however i would never want to come close to someone like you whop would much rather draw guns and ask questions later, being a cowboy gets you nowhere, best case scenario, guy enters, you shoot him rather than letting the police do their job, (Albeit a #ty job) and spend 14 years incarcerated, it happens, i am not ready to be a killer, and never will be.

And that is your choice to be totally unprepared (irresponsible for yourself?) here.

Not a" killer": However are you a "stopper"? you may feel differently if for instance an intruder held a knife to your childs' throat.

The fact is; the perfect opportunity to apply lethal force mostly happens in the movies. but it happens. and"when seconds count the police are mere minutes away( time enough to get a loved one killed).

See really the gun will not go off by itself: YOU make a judgement to apply lethal force:"Am I or a loved one in immediate danger? Is it worth going to prison to kill this scumbag?

Sometimes the answer is:" indeed yes"; it is worth it to save my wife or childs life. ( the only time you apply lethal force is to answer it.

Originally posted by browsey
You'd think one of the youngest countries and apparent most multi cultural would be respectful of others, and their forefathers, because unless your one of the few native americans that WASN'T slaughtered, its very likely the reason why you feel the need to sleep with a loaded magnum under your pillow is because of all the guilt and bloodshed on your people's hands, take a moment to look at yourself before you judge others.

reply to post by browsey


"Browsey" = "oh the Irony!!" Browse on, your changing the world for the better, one click at a time!


Did someone hurt your feelings?

Are you implying that your forefathers were saints?

We carry guns, due to shame and guilt?

wow, it is amazing how some people have such a loose grip on reality.

Browsing the internet DOES NOT make you anything more than a human sitting in a chair looking at words and pictures. Unfortunately, forums like this, make people think their words, make them activists or somehow enlightened.

We should let the young and naive rule the world, while they still know everything.