Your right to 'Bear Arms'

Originally posted by browsey
However i know a few bad apples can spoil a bunch, so i do not hold any grudge agains't American people, however i would never want to come close to someone like you whop would much rather draw guns and ask questions later, being a cowboy gets you nowhere, best case scenario, guy enters, you shoot him rather than letting the police do their job, (Albeit a #ty job) and spend 14 years incarcerated, it happens, i am not ready to be a killer, and never will be.

That is a reason why I reside in a State that has Castle Doctrine.
If you enter my house, without my permission, DOOM on YOU.
There is no reason on Earth to justify breaking into someone's home.
I have no problem dispatching someone that does this.
That person placed themselves in the position, not me.

Whatever the Government can point at us,
we should be able to point it right back at them.

That seems fair enough.

I have actually gotten into many arguments over the years with people outside of the US who do not understand why Americans have the right to bear arms. A lot of other countries do not understand, or actually I think they do and it scares them.

The reason we all as Americans have the right is to protect ourselves from both our own Government, and any other Government.

Yes, we can protect ourselves from break-ins with guns, but that is not what they are really for. They are to stop invasions.

Any country that invades the USA will find (as they already know) that they can get in, but cannot get out.

The line on what is ok to own is pretty clear the way I understand it.... You can have semi-automatic weapons, but not fully automatic, although in the case of invasion, it is very easy to convert such weapons.

Cannons? well, yeah, my uncle has one we used to shoot toilet paper out of every 4th of July...crazy weapon there...but if loaded properly, it could take out a tank.

My family is very well armed, and prepared.

Cause you just never know, and no doubt, some day, someone will try to invade, it is going to happen eventually.... *click*.... we will be ready for them.....

reply to post by Darkblade71


Yes, and having the means does not then lead to wanting to use it.

firstly my name is not browsey because i browse haha nice observation, i might go and kill a vampite with a steak in a moment...

Yes i understand in a time of need but your circumstance is not a good example, someone holds a knife to a loved ones throat? How often and how many people that you directly know has this ever happened to? Your paranoia of invasion is merely from propaganda driven by your govt. they want you to FEAR! Terrorists! Communists! These people who cannot be identified as a person or nation, i ask the question what does a terrorist look like? Or a communist?

I have no major problem wit your history and rights (If you will) to bear armaments to your choice, whether it be knives, guns, bats with spikes, cannons, explosives, the list goes on, however all i am asking is why does America , different from all other countries feel the need to defend themselves with arms and not relying on the army (for invasions) and the police (To police! Not saying the police are a good thing but hey, it is their JOB!) would you go and empty peoples bins say at 6:05 in the morning into your own dump when say the binmen come at 6:30 or whenever, speaking purely hypothetically but you would be doing a job that is paid for to be done for you, out of your own money!

Why is no other nation so paranoid in itself that it is in constant fear of invasion, attack, rape, murder, theft, all manners of crime, and seek to protect yourself? Is it a lacking in the police force and their capabilities?(We in other countries question this also!) What happened to the power of the pen, and why is the sword required?

reply to post by 46ACE

but what is the only other option absolutely no means of self determination?

Sorry, but pardon?

If every German Jew had a bolt action rifle and a couple of boxes of cartridges: the SS would've run out of henchmen well before the tanks came rolling in:. they would not have attempted the round ups in the first place.

What makes you say that?
You may be correct but what supportive evidence is there to suggest that that statement is true?

And comparing 1936 Germany to 2011 USA is really pretty silly.
The difference in technology between armed civilians and the military is far, far greater now than it was then.

No I can't knock out a tank with a hunting rifle:BUT "A rifle behind every blade of grass" IS an awesome deterrent in and of itself. Ask the Japanese.

It wasn't the prospect of fighting armed civilians that prevented Japan from invading the USA, it may have been a minor contributory factor but the shear logistics involved in mounting a conventional military invasion against the USA dictates the unlikelihood of it ever happening.
It was the reason the UK couldn't strike at the USA with all it's force back in the day and why no-one will ever be able to seriously contemplate doing it in the foreseeable future.

As do "Smarmy euro socialists"

I am English and I am British; I am NOT European and I dislike being pigeon holed as anything..... but a 'Smarmy euro socialist' is so wide of the mark it's laughable but that helps vindicate the stereotypical image of the unreasoned, leftist hating sociopath Yank that so many non-Americans have of you and your countrymen.

coming in here decrying our "violence problems"

Where exactly did I do that?
Please quote me.

like you have some inherent adult/child responsibility to protect us from ourselves!

Do as you see fit, I think I made that perfectly clear from the outset.

We seek neither your counsel nor your permission ;Sir.

Oh, but deep down you Americans so much DO want us to acknowledge and respect you.

We, will never need or seek your counsel or permission.

Good day and may your chains of subjugation weigh lightly upon your shoulders

Which are exactly the same chains that subjugate you my friend.

Originally posted by Freeborn


Oh, but deep down you Americans so much DO want us to acknowledge and respect you.

We, will never need or seek your counsel or permission.

Sorry, but I do not need your respect nor want it.
You do with England as you see fit.

Originally posted by macman

Originally posted by Freeborn


Oh, but deep down you Americans so much DO want us to acknowledge and respect you.

We, will never need or seek your counsel or permission.

Sorry, but I do not need your respect nor want it.
You do with England as you see fit.

Again, respect your forefathers and elders, USA is a very young country is respect to what other nations have achieved, unless you are an actual native American out of the few left the weren't slaughtered. However if you happen to descend elsewhere you should know especially in such a multicultural society, to accept and speak on an intellectual level with others, not be a close-minded extremist.

Originally posted by browsey
How often and how many people that you directly know has this ever happened to?

To ME personally, twice....but honestly it only has to happen ONCE for it to stick in your mind.

Is it a lacking in the police force and their capabilities?

Its not that they lack, its simply the time it takes to respond. The thug that approached my wife with a pistol was there NOW.....I held him at gun point and the police arrived in about 10 minutes (although in that situation it seems like a life time)

What happened to the power of the pen, and why is the sword required?

because thugs and low lifes dont read.

There is a saying you should perhaps ponder....
"Better to be judged by 12, than carried by 6"

reply to post by browsey


You know what is great about America?
Is that I can tell you, any foreigner or anyone else to get bent.

I do not need, nor want the respect of anyone outside the US.
It is not necessary in life, as I don't really care what you or others think of me.


SO..............................................

Originally posted by vogon42

There is a saying you should perhaps ponder....
"Better to be judged by 12, than carried by 6"

Very thoughfull quote, i like your view, however, i must ask why is it that only america answers these problems with guns, every nation has its 'bad apples' if you will, there are plenty of illegal guns available, and like earlier mentioned if you are willing to commit a crime with a gun, you can get an illegal one, but still being these nutters in every country why put yourself in danger of getting hurt or hurting someone and possibly being incarcerated for it. Police here in the UK have guns, but only choose whether armed response is necessary, the amount of innocent minorities that are shot, why is there a vast difference between the nations is my question

Originally posted by macman
reply to post by browsey

 

You know what is great about America?
Is that I can tell you, any foreigner or anyone else to get bent.

I do not need, nor want the respect of anyone outside the US.
It is not necessary in life, as I don't really care what you or others think of me.


SO..............................................

You think anyone else doesnt have the freedom you have, because we are sensible and do not choose to bear armaments doesnt mean we are less free, your concept of freedom is very blurred my friend.

Originally posted by brokedown

However, this also has been changed through Congress with the passage of the National Firearms Act of 1934, and the Gun Control Act of 1968, where by it was recognized that the citizen is able to posses a machine gun under the second amendment, but the congress will now require a tax and registration of the machine gun.

And,

That explosives as grenades will now be outlawed for the citizen, as will silencers.

It is commonly held that if a line solider in the military CARRIES a weapon, that weapon is protected under the second amendment, but our Congress has outlawed most of that as well.
[

Actually a suppressor or silencer is not illegal under federal law, only certain states. I can purchase a silencer for any of my weapons, as long as I file an ATF form 2 and pay the ( imo unconstitutional ) $200 tax. If I am not mistaken some grenades are also legal, again with the form 2 .

Originally posted by browsey

Originally posted by macman
reply to post by browsey

 

You know what is great about America?
Is that I can tell you, any foreigner or anyone else to get bent.

I do not need, nor want the respect of anyone outside the US.
It is not necessary in life, as I don't really care what you or others think of me.


SO..............................................

You think anyone else doesnt have the freedom you have, because we are sensible and do not choose to bear armaments doesnt mean we are less free, your concept of freedom is very blurred my friend.

I never stated that.
I stated I don't need nor want your respect.
Then you retorted with gobbledegook about the US being a young nation and so on.


Don't need your respect, you can keep it.

A well regulated militia = harnessed aggression.

The question is why anyone is against harnessing aggression. We have too much of it loose and running wild as it is. If our federal militia laws were working as originally written the first time someone gets a drunk driving conviction they would also lose their riffle.

See the weapon itself has an appeal and an attraction. I remember watching a news story in San Diego for a firing range that had a mounted 50 cal machine gun. Apparently couples were going there on dates, and from the footage the chicks really enjoyed handling the power of a machine gun. Hell even gang bangers will listen closely and follow the rules if they get to shoot a machine gun at the end of it.

Which brings up tanks and jet fighters. Which we should have in Louisiana's militia but we don't. I want to know why all the wealth and children of Louisiana have been taken into the middle of a distant desert and bleed out. Poncho Villa is starting to make sense with his "every farmer should have a gun, and from a word from the governor they rally. But standing soldiers separate from the populous leads to trouble."

So yes, I'm the extremist nut in the room.
I believe, not only, should we have fire arms,
but tanks, jets, choppers, missiles, and anti air as well.

/nod
David Grouchy

it would seem some of our European friends tend to confuse preparation and personal responsibility for oneself and family for paranoia and fear. I am not paranoid, I do not live in fear. I have a pretty well stocked armory in my home, my wife and I both conceal carry. These are tools, a means of defense in case the unthinkable may happen. We do not walk around in fear constantly looking for the bad guy that may mug us or anything like that. We go about our daily lives just as any other person might, with the added benefit that if some thing should happen we have a means to make sure that we or anyone else might have a better set of odds to get out of a situation unharmed.

Now, let me ask you people something, if you and your significant other are wandering about and attacked by one of these loonies. They hit you in the head, snag your wife's hand bag, and run off with your child. You can call the police, that will arrive in 15-30 minutes depending on whether they are done with their tea and crumpets and how bad traffic is, and you can give them a vague description of what the perpetrators may have looked like. Then maybe in a few months they will find them, not your child though, because the unthinkable has already happened to the little angel. In America though, you have the right to carry a concealed gun, so instead of watching your sweet little angel get escorted away, you could have fired your gun and stopped the perp and taken your child home that day. It's not fear or paranoia, its preparation and accountability

Most Americans are under the impression that full auto machine guns aren't legal for everyday Americans, and that is untrue.

Anyone can own a machine gun, as long as you can get a permit to purchase to begin with you can own one.

They don't want people to know this so they keep it quiet for the most part.

It's not even that expensive to get the permit, but the guns are. A basic Chinese burp gun runs around 6k and they go up from there. Once you have the permit you can own a mini-gun if you want.

Originally posted by browsey

Very thoughfull quote, i like your view, however, i must ask why is it that only america answers these problems with guns,

OK, so part of the reason is because I live in a crappy neighborhood. But if I would have answered the situation I mentioned earlier with a pen, my wife would be dead...or what ever now.

why put yourself in danger of getting hurt or hurting someone and possibly being incarcerated for it. ,

back to the crappy neighborhood part.....its called defending my family. It has kept my loved ones OUT of danger.

why is there a vast difference between the nations is my question

Wish I had an answer for that one. My only travels have been while in military uniform...so I'm certain I did not get a true culture experience. I have never been to the UK, would like to some day...might be interesting.
The very short time in Germany I had the chance to spend out of uniform, I think parts of the culture are pretty cool, but others strike me as a bit egotistical. I can however tell you, it seems to be a much better culture than what I found in central america. (note to those that might be confused- NOT central US, Central America.....there is a North, a Central, and a South)

reply to post by IronDogg

"Arms" means (fire)arms....and could include a hand held cannon but to qualify as a "arms" it would have to be capable of being carried in your arms not mounted with wheels and pulled by beasts of burden IMHO.

reply to post by SM2


I'm not American. No guns allowed where I'm from. Sometimes I wish I could carry a gun for personal defense, but I always remind myself that if guns were legal here our social problems would just go from bad to absolute hell. Our regular police don't carry firearms either, thank god, those assholes would shoot first and ask questions later, I'm a lot happier knowing that some cop isn't gonna kill me or any of my family or friends because of some stupid mistake, the worse they can do is beat you.

Your point is a good one, and you seem like a responsible person, but what about all those people who are not level headed and responsible. I have friends and relatives in the US, they always say things like "people will shoot you here for the slightest reason".
My sister and parents went to Florida to visit some family friends, they went to the wrong house by mistake, the next door neighbors of their friends, it was dark, they knocked on the door and the man who lived there almost shot my sister with a shotgun because he wasn't 'expecting' anyone, he told them how lucky they were that he didn't kill them. When I heard this I nearly dropped dead from the fright.
I'm by no means anti-American, and it's none of my business whether you guys carry guns or not, but I would definitely be uncomfortable knowing that somebody could 'light up'' me or my family if I was visiting there. That kind of thing would never happen where I am now.