From Tripoli to Damascus - arrival of Antichrist imminent

Originally posted by pstrron
reply to post by subcsailor

 

Here are some of his claims:
1. US dollar must collapse.
2. Jews in Israel do not have genetic link to original Jews.
3. Singapore is Little Israel. (that was a new one on me)
4. Muslim's won't bow to oppression, that is why they are getting poorer.
5. Dajjall is the mastermind of all that is happening in the world.
6. Israel wants to rule the world.

Actually all of these statements are correct. The first is in progress as we speak and if you do not believe it, a minor amount of research will confirm it. The second is also correct as they are descended from the Khazars and are referred today as Ashkenazi Jews. Regarding the third, follow the money. Continuing to No. four, Muslims are in a financial decline and refusing to bow is only one of the factors for this. No. five depends upon whither a person believes in the devil or not. It is true if you do and it's not if you don't. As for the sixth, that one is spot on, once again a little research will confirm it.

In the end, it is really only whither people will do any research and discover for themselves the truth of the matter or not. Sadly few will and the remainder are just as delighted to follow the crowd. Does this mean that we should listen to a lecture by sheik Imram Hosein? Well, yes and no, yes to gain possible insight into his/Islams perspective and no as it is liable to contain errors meant to deceive if taken verbatim. Once again research will shed light on the matter.

Oh I definately agree with you. I am looking at this as an exercise in what the Quran says. Meaning I am expecting him to back up his claims from the Quran. I certainly think he is spot on in some areas but the presentation is given to the viewer as it is written in the scripture. I already know what Revelations, Daniel and other passages say in my Bible. I am just curious as to what other religion scriptures say about the end times.

reply to post by mike_trivisonno


Mike,
We are suppose to be loving and kind. That means to the Muslim that lives next door and the elderly woman that sits behind you in church and talks the whole time.

Regards,

Originally posted by MikeboydUS
reply to post by mike_trivisonno

 

Technically, Islam is not "anti-christ". It actually promotes Jesus, even as the Messiah in the end times. Jesus is actually mentioned in the Quran more times than Mohammed and declared "Messiah" in it.

From the Quran 3:45

Behold! the angels said: "O Mary! God giveth thee glad tidings of a Word from Him: his name will be Christ Jesus, the son of Mary, held in honour in this world and the Hereafter and of (the company of) those nearest to God

It can't really be antichrist, when it declares Jesus the Christ, can it?

The way it promotes Jesus though flies in the face of most of modern Christianity, i.e. Jesus is not God in Islam. Instead, Jesus is born through a virgin birth to Mary in the Quran, like a second or new Adam, but not God incarnate. Both Paul and the early Christian Church shared a very similar second Adam belief. In the pre-Roman Church, the idea that Jesus was the Father incarnate was considered heresy and blasphemy as seen in the writings of the early church father Tertullian. In pre Trinitarian writings of the early church, Jesus is always seen as subordinate and submissive to "God the Father". Even in the Gospel, Jesus himself says he does nothing of his own will or authority but only the Father's will. He prays to the Father, declares only the Father good not himself, and declares ignorance, while only the Father is omniscient.

So in a sense, Islam has teachings comparable to early Christianity. There is a divide though with the early Church over the concept of the Logos.

The Gospel and the early Church declare Jesus the Logos of the Father, i.e. the firstborn, the right hand and the demiurge of all creation. As far as I know, mainstream Islam doesn't normally support that idea. The Sufis and Ismailis, believe in some type of Anthropos and/or Logos, sometimes called al kalima (The Word) or al-mawjud al-awwalbut (The First Existent) that functions as demiurge, but do not normally identify it as Jesus. There are some Muslims though who do seem to make an effort, as seen here: A Response on The Trinity – Christian Doctrine in Islamic Context, ifeldp.wordpress.com...

Comparative Religious studies is nowhere near one of my strong points-- but it sure seems to be yours.

Reading your linked article, I am reminded of a conversation I had years ago with a scholar who knew much more than I did. That man's summary for me was that whereas Early Christianity had, by circumstance, a necessity to blend western thought with eastern thought and was content to leave "Mystery" as a resulting answer, the Early Muslims had contact with Apollinarianism-- Christ was human, and more or less overwhelmed by the Divine mind.

No unsettled mystery in that.

If one holds that Christ was fully human but not fully God, the Mystery of the Holy Trinity must be rejected. The scholar's point was that the Muslims had essentially accepted the monophystic teachings concerning Christ Jesus, and taken that in a natural direction; but utterly apart from the church with which those teaching had come. Politically, opposing anything embraced by Europeans (Romans) seemed a good idea at the time.

In reading the Qauran, I must say that the scholar's point of view seems reasonable. It fits, whether it is historically accurate or not. The article claims that it was Yemeni Christians, and not Apollinarians.

The "rub" in this is that doctrines of the Early Church either held or shattered on the stone of "God became man so that man might become god." Christ Jesus refers to the Psalm as a fresh expression of the same, "Have I not said ye are gods?" So the Incarnation as being Christ both and at once fully God and fully man, must be held, or there is no "good news."

I do not believe the deification of mankind as an intent and purpose of the work of God --Allah-- for us, is contrary to any Muslim doctrine. I could easily be mistaken.

----

That train of thought leads me to a Christian analogy of the Hadith.

Like the emergence of the Church in Europe after over three Centuries of persecution, various differences had arisen while the various communities were isolated-- literally driven "underground", and councils were called to specify a unifying doctrine. The doctrine of the Trinity and of the nature of Christ Jesus were early interpretations-- supported by Scripture, but not contained in it (except implicitly). Still, the interpretation was arguable-- and they did argue and finally decided to agree on certain official doctrines so as to preserve unity.

While the Hadith are not necessarily creedal statements, I gather they are something like official understandings of sayings from the Quran used to prevent divisive interpretations. Do I have that about right?

Originally posted by THE_PROFESSIONAL
reply to post by Corruption Exposed

 

Very true; they just repeat lies propagated to them And they cannot use their mind to discern reality from falsehood. I bet that the person whom I was referring to didn't even watch the video lmao. I am awaiting his rebuttal.

While I share in your frustration with hateful comments, please don't lump all Christians in that catagory. I chose to believe the Bible. I base my theology on the Bible. So when Jesus says that no man comes to the Father except by me, I believe it. Coupled with the, when you see me you see the Father, send me down the path of accepting Jesus as my saviour. So that's where I stand. Not condeming your views, just letting you know why I believe the way I do.

No as for the haters on ATS...I have been flambayed before. I recently shared an intiment story about my self and what God has done for me. And the replys I got were horrible. So I do not judge, that is not my job on this earth. But I will share what I believe is the light of God when given a chance.

And of course I'll take time to learn how others believe and worship so I can have knowledgble conversation with them.

"didnt watch the video lmao"

What's there to watch? A religious nut trying to connect dots together using the Quran as his evidence? And we are the shills, for NOT watching this BS?

You got "shills" definition all wrong.

Originally posted by THE_PROFESSIONAL
He backs up all his facts with the Qur'an and all the Qur'an predictions have come true.

The Qu'ran is full of contradictions and historical errors.
Contradictions and errors of the Qu'ran
Questions Muslim Scholars Can Not Answer
1000 Errors in the Qu'ran
Historical Errors of the Qu'ran

Originally posted by MeesterB
1) Give us your Jew gold
2) his hat trips me out when I watch him speak
3) He makes a smacking sound after almost every phrase

Do not never, ever underestimate a man who wants something, smacks after almost every phrase and wears a hat...

reply to post by flexy123


Then why even bother to reply to the thread? Seriously.
What you and many others need to do is stop and think here because not so long ago i was the same. Anti muslim bs is bs on a huge scale.
We were all played following 911 and you know exactly what i am talking about. That one day shifted conciousness on a massive scale which effected the way people look at middle eastern countries and other faiths. Its all bs and you all fell for it. As did i up until i seen the big picture.

911 was an event that killed many birds with one stone, it hid the debt, it shifted thinking and by doing so produced war that drives certain economies. dont believe me??? research yourself.... take copper for instance then add a serpent or a snake like an Anaconda for instance add the 2 together and you have Anaconda Copper striiike!!!!! Ur outa here.

Thats just one of many.

How many of you due to your own witnessing, ie seeing with your "own" eyes have a negative feeling towards other religions or people? And how many of you that do have a negative perception of them etc have had your mind influenced by what you have seen through media and news etc.

I have a copy of The Holy Qur'an and i am yet to find anything negative. What you all believe is what they want you to believe because your ignorance fuels the wars. They know you wont go and ask to look for yourselves.

I would suggest you ask a muslim to borrow you their holy book, you will be disapointed......because they lied to you and influenced you in a way to a point and to such an extent that breeds hate.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by IsraeliGuy
"didnt watch the video lmao"

What's there to watch? A religious nut trying to connect dots together using the Quran as his evidence? And we are the shills, for NOT watching this BS?

You got "shills" definition all wrong.

says the "israeli guy"

Originally posted by Lee78
reply to post by flexy123

 

...

I have a copy of The Holy Qur'an and i am yet to find anything negative.

Then keep reading-- its in there.

It is in the Jewish Scripture and in the Christian scripture as well. If you characterize any of those the three as "nothing negative" then you misrepresent.

What you all believe is what they want you to believe because your ignorance fuels the wars. They know you wont go and ask to look for yourselves.

Uhm... 911 may have been the first you heard of trouble in Muslim paradise-- but it was not the first heard. It was Muslim radical fundamentalists who attempted to take down one of the Twin Towers before.

However, I will admit that Americans tend to only notice tyranny when it interrupts their own lives-- and the Muslims have been besought by tyranny to radicals far longer that most Americans knew there was a problem-- because it was not an American problem as long as the Pop Tarts, and cell phones are still on the shelves.

I would suggest you ask a muslim to borrow you their holy book, you will be disapointed......because they lied to you and influenced you in a way to a point and to such an extent that breeds hate.

I would suggest that you do not. Many Muslims will not allow their copy of the Quran to be touched by a non-Muslim. You can read it online or buy your own.

----

Now with that said, I am a Christian. The "negative" stuff in the Bible-- both Old and New Testaments is hard to take-- just as is the negative stuff in the Quran. Freed from the Law-- I have a perspective of intent of godly living without needing reference to punishments.

In religious law, there is a strong sense of being careful not to dilute one's faith by mixing it with other religious cultures-- which, ironically, is exactly what I am doing on this thread-- mixing with other religious cultures-- not to dilute, but to understand and look for commonality.

In each case, the laws were written during a time when the religious beliefs set them apart from surrounding cultures to a point that persecution was expected-- and so the need for purity from those persecutors and the need to stand fast is emphasized.

I believe, to my peril, that God desires us to seek Truth, and to find the godly in our opponents-- not to make them enemies-- and that if The Jews have truth and wisdom from God, and Christians, and the Muslims, and the Buddhists, and the Hindus, and so on-- I look for the common spiritual Truth because I believe God sends His Holy Spirit upon all persons so that they may seek Him, and, in their seeking, be found by Him.

Granted, common religious themes rarely mature beyond a sort of us verses them identity, but in my faith-- we try very hard not to allow initiates to linger there too long; but (and Alas!) most do. If the practice of the faith does not draw one closer to God, and to His spiritual Realities revealed to mankind-- then the practices need to be abandoned. So I believe.

reply to post by FlyersFan


There are not any mistakes in the Quran; I can pick up a biology book and show you numerous mistakes. The Quran is not a science book nor is it a history book; it is a book of signs and guidance.

reply to post by THE_PROFESSIONAL

There are not any mistakes in the Quran; I can pick up a biology book and show you numerous mistakes. The Quran is not a science book nor is it a history book; it is a book of signs and guidance.

No mistakes at all?....are you sure?

Where are the mistakes in biology books?..........you said you can show "numerous mistakes"

please begin.

reply to post by Argyll


Show me a biology book from 1950 I'll point them out. Even today there are mistakes; event he most accurate theory of physics qed is still an approximation. You just don't get it do you, the Quran is not meant to be taken as a textbook, it is a book of signs and guidance

Originally posted by My.mind.is.mine

Originally posted by IsraeliGuy
"didnt watch the video lmao"

What's there to watch? A religious nut trying to connect dots together using the Quran as his evidence? And we are the shills, for NOT watching this BS?

You got "shills" definition all wrong.

says the "israeli guy"

GREAT COMEBACK!
Lots of cunning and wit. Really.