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Israeli woman refuses ultra-Orthodox dictate to move to back of bus

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posted on Dec, 18 2011 @ 04:31 PM
reply to post by Corruption Exposed

. I don't like to slap labels on reality,

But you did just that by saying: Reality is ever changing.

It would probably surprise you that this is what is allegorically being referred to in the myths of ancient Greece. It surprises me, anyways, that such a seemingly 'ordinary' belief system could be presented so religiously.

The sophists, beginning with Plato, began to 'demythologize' Greek philosophy (which had hitherto, as in all cultures, been referred to through their founding myths) a course followed down to the present day. As Percy Shelley famously said, We are all Greeks. Our laws, our literature, our religion, our arts, have their root in Greece..

We tend to forget that the terms in which we think our Hellenistic. The world as it is today, is the product of an elite class, which goes back into ancient times.


And secular-Humanism is a consequence of this indecisiveness about the nature of reality. Nihilism was also at the core of Egyptian religion. Sorry to press this mythological point so much. Herodotus said "Egypt was the gift of the Nile"." And Herodotus, like Hecataeus, said that Greece derived most its myths from Egypt. The Nile, the heart of Egyptian religion, was a symbol for the relativity of existence. It's various gods and godesses, symbolized different ways to relate with reality. To be sure, it was all metaphysics, but a metaphysics which was relativized, in the same way done in India.

Egypt's opposition to the Jews served as a prototype and example for the later Hellenistic oppression of the Jews, which resulted in Hasmonean revolt. Even the word Hasmonean implies something about the Jews who rebelled against Greek tyranny. The word is from the Hebrew, "HaSheMeN" "oil", referring to the one flask of oil that lasted 8 days. The Greeks sought to undermine the Jews obervance of Judaism. They prohibited Torah study, Sabbath, and circumcision - the 3 elements that make a Jew a Jew. The oil symbolized the metaphysical order - the sphere of Binah (understanding, related to the word Bonen, to 'build'). Just as oil rides atop water, so to, does the soul of the Jew seek to look into the deeper metaphysical principles which underlie reality. It's these principles which underlie Judaism, and are referred to in the esoteric language of the Torah (book of Genesis in particular).

Thus, while you say 'we can't know', perhaps that is due to an intellectual indifference to knowing. Perhaps, if you knew, you wouldn't want to know? Because it would force a response which you wouldn't want to make.

This is the truth behind antisemitism. I've said it a hundred times, and I'll continue saying it. Hellenism and Hebraism are conceptual opposites. And the elites, realizing in the Jews (the traditional) an ideological opponent, seek to wipe them out. Could Hitler have been anymore precise when he said:

“If only one country, for whatever reason, tolerates a Jewish family in it, that family will become the germ center for fresh sedition. If one little Jewish boy survives without any Jewish education, with no synagogue and no Hebrew school, it [Judaism] is in his soul. Even if there had never been a synagogue or a Jewish school or an Old Testament, the Jewish spirit would still exist and exert its influence. It has been there from the beginning and there is no Jew, not a single one, who does not personify it.”

“The Ten Commandments have lost their validity. Conscience is a Jewish invention, it is a blemish like circumcision.”

Read Hitler's pope. It is so obvious that the Catholic Church worked with the European powers (and america) to engineer the holocaust.

You're following your predefined set of rules which dictate how you interpret and react to certain situations,

And you do the same. To truly be free from that common human frailty, you should be open to all possibilities.

I know I may sound like a dogmatist, but truth be told, I am much more along the middle. I'm not quite sure what the truth is, yet, I will defend the Jewish conception, because it is an interesting one.

I just truly dislike those who take the western approach, not realizing, as Shelly said, it is built into their very psyches.

but I will not let previous experiences completely define the current situation as for each situation is different.

What do you mean by this? I gotta say, it sure sounds like moral relativism.

posted on Dec, 18 2011 @ 04:34 PM
reply to post by dontreally

the OP is probably peeved that we have taken this thread so far off topic. I just realized that this is not your thread, I was under the impression that you were the thread author.

But you did just that by saying: Reality is ever changing.

I think you took that comment out of context. Reality is ever changing. Do you not agree?

The change is constant, but the change cannot be defined. If it was predefined, you would be able to tell the future, which I'm confident you're not capable of doing.

posted on Dec, 18 2011 @ 04:44 PM
reply to post by Corruption Exposed

so far off topic.

It's not that far off topic. I made issue of explaining the Jewish rationale for telling women to sit at the back of the bus,

Actually, initially, I took offense to regarding the action as "extremist". It is not extremist. It is just different from what we westerners are used to.

It is also false, as I presented quite logically (but of course, not being a 'popular' view, i get no or few stars) to equate this manifestation of telling a certain group to sit at the back of the bus, with the American parallel where blacks were told to sit at the back of the bus,

The rationale in both cases were entirely different. In the case of blacks, it was pure discrimination, based on a perceived superiority in popular southern culture that whites were racially superior to blacks. Thus, the whites were to be seated in the front, while the blacks, in the back. There is no hint of a metaphysical or spiritual ideology behind this. Conversely, the Orthodox Jewish mentality is to see everything in the context of metaphysics. The bus becomes an analogy of creation (a very apropos metaphor, in my opinion) and the men and women on the bus, symbols of the masculine and feminine. The masculine is at the front of creation, because the front is associated with the active principle (for instance, the front of he head, the face, is where we speak) while the feminine is at the back of creation, i.e the passive principle, so woman are seated at the back.

The response of this Jew to this woman, although unjustified, inasmuch as she probably has no knowledge of this construct, was most likely an expression of spiritual indignation, that this woman would flout the divine law of God.

Again, I'm not defending him. I think it was ignorant, and harsh of him to make such a major issue of it, knowing it would go nowhere (that's key. If you know your fight will be futile, don't waste your breath), but at the same time, I have respect for this ideology, as well as a healthy contempt for the western ignoramus who passes judgement on it, in the same harsh way that this Orthodox Jew sought to force this woman to sit at the back of the bus.

Reality is ever changing. Do you not agree?

Ok, I took it out of context. But it did seem to imply something about your philosophical approach.

Reality is changing. Yes, the world is a world of passage and movement. In Kabbalistic language, this world is called "Action".

That however doesn't mean anything. Change can mean one thing within the context of Hellenism (and paganism in general) and quite another, in Hebraism.
edit on 18-12-2011 by dontreally because: (no reason given)

posted on Dec, 18 2011 @ 10:17 PM
i]reply to post by dontreally

Buddy. Please expand your knowledge.

lol, your familiarity is presumptuous,
especially coming from someone whose high-sounding "wisdom rants" are of subjects i cut my teeth on before i was 15.
i'm too busy doing, as opposed to talking, to take the time to educate you, in any case your puppeteer
will just push your "Blank-Out" button
and you'll proceed as if nothing had been said...

... judging from your misanthropist posts...

as opposed to your misogynistic ones,?
might i suggest it is you who are imbalanced? issues with women, cloaked as Spirituality?
this is why you have no power, and must impress with name dropping and BIGWORDS,
instead of Demonstrating, which is it's own proof.
your inner feminine must be bound in more chains than Urizen.

may the Ayenbite of Inwyt set upon thee,
begone from Malkuth, return to Qliphoth.

reply to post by Corruption Exposed

You believe the words you read in these books because they're portrayed as reality by your witch doctors who take advantage of your naivety in order to systematically condition you into falling for this fairy tale you're trying to shove down our throats.

"People live their lives bound by what they accept as correct and true. That's how they define "Reality." But what does it mean to be "correct" or "true"? Merely vague concepts... their "reality" may all be a mirage. Can we consider them to simply be living in their own world, shaped by their beliefs?"
Uchiha Itachi

yes indeed, seems you let him carry you away off topic a bit, ...
the sad thing is he knows who's hand moves him

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by dontreally
And what is reality? Secular-Humanism?

Is there something wrong with Secular-Humanism?

it's obvious he's never read Erich Fromm.

posted on Dec, 18 2011 @ 11:09 PM
All the men who cannot stand the idea that the woman is their equal are the lousiest cowards, and in fact fear the woman. They use religion as a pretext to sustain their miserable self-esteem and to pretend that they are superior.
And they are present in every religion. I see nothing spiritual here. The women who accept this kind of treatment are brain-washed since childhood to believe that they are dirty, inferior and their only purpose in life is to serve the man.
Good for that woman, and I hope that tomorrow there'll be one hundred more to sit in the front of that bus! Enough with the stupid male dominance!

posted on Dec, 19 2011 @ 10:43 PM
reply to post by DerepentLEstranger

might i suggest it is you who are imbalanced?

Take a look at your avatar.

I get it. You're a Kabbalist. You read Hebrew, have studied the Torah - and all this before 15. Astounding, really. And your magical-mystical powers are great enough to impress 3 posters here, who probably starred your post because you're opposing a "Zionist".

issues with women, cloaked as Spirituality?

If you understand the metaphysical doctrine described - then you will understand what I'm talking about. Yes, a gnostic of the libertine kind will interpret this as misogyny because it upsets their conception of reality. I can't do anything about that. I think it's wrong, and I think its quite unbalanced, and I think it has the potential to make someone a really bad person.

dropping and BIGWORDS,

You conversely say nothing. While I try to articulate my position, out of respect for others, you don't even bother. Because you feel it is enough to attack the person. And that, If someone has their head screwed on right (clearly, not speaking of the people here) is indicative of egomania.

your inner feminine must be bound in more chains than Urizen.

Yawn...Spare me the William Blake. It's such a worn out opinion.

So why, again, do you oppose the elites, if you share their exact views?

Hey. If you want to believe in your gnosticism - go right ahead - just don't mask it as being biblical, cause it isn't. The New Testament philosophy is a repudiation of Hebraism - personified in the "Pharisee", who, relative to the Hellenist Sadducee, is the esoteric metaphysical doctrine of the Jews.

When I discovered, early on, how the western world conducts themselves - being a normal minded, and moral person, I became revolted. You too would know, since Gnostics make special effort to demarcate society into Pneumatic and Psychic types, that if the "psychic" with his hardwired intuitive knowledge of God, ever came into knowledge of the basis of Christianity, and especially the many many evils Christianity has committed, in the name of "the end sanctifies the means" if they had any moral sense, would be disgusted.

I'm very fortunate. I got close with Jews early on in my life, and studied Torah with them. I now know more than enough to reject your gnosticism. Unlike you - I know what you believe. Unlike you, I show respect for other religions, even though I disagree with their more radical views, while you, can show nothing but a vitriolic contempt for my beliefs. And this is normal - it is hardwired into the radicalist nature of Esau to hate the truth.

may the Ayenbite of Inwyt set upon thee, begone from Malkuth, return to Qliphoth.

Oooh...Did you just hex me?

it's obvious he's never read Erich Fromm.

I studied him in School.

posted on Dec, 20 2011 @ 07:19 AM

Originally posted by sueloujo
reply to post by Xcathdra

So what you are implying is that there is nothing wrong with this man complaining that the woman should move to the back of the bus and holding everyone else up for 30mins? Imagine how this would make you feel? That someone looked upon you as lower than themselves? It is not a question of whether she moved or is about the underlying injustice from this man.

It would piss me off to no end.. However, its not illegal for him to make the request, nor for her to refuse it. None of this is the polices fault since the guy is the one who decided to show everyone his rectal-cranial inversion problem. The reason I brought the police up is because the other poster was taking creative liberty to change a word here and there which changed the story in its entirety.

posted on Dec, 20 2011 @ 06:31 PM

Originally posted by dontreally

it's obvious he's never read Erich Fromm.

I studied him in School.

If the mind is not open - - it is subject to doctrine/propaganda and preconception.

Understanding the core of something is different - - then if it had been applied to a set of circumstances where it wasn't 100% functional.

posted on Dec, 20 2011 @ 10:47 PM
Is this just one of the many possible signs of a civil war in Israel pitting radically Zionist fanatics against moderate Zionist fanatics?

Can an artificial country based on myth and bindertwined together by a common hate for the outsider and desire to rip-off the American taxpayer end in anything other than civil war?

posted on Dec, 20 2011 @ 10:57 PM

Originally posted by BRAVO949
Can an artificial country based on myth and bindertwined together by a common hate for the outsider and desire to rip-off the American taxpayer end in anything other than civil war?

To date Palestinians have proven that the answer to that question is no. While I get you are speaking about Israel, the exact same holds for Palestinians.

posted on Dec, 21 2011 @ 12:47 AM

Aside from women being segregated and expected to sit at
the back of the bus, israel has other kosher uses
for women :


posted on Dec, 21 2011 @ 01:08 AM
reply to post by Xcathdra

well he was disturbing the peace wasnt he? in our country he wouldve been gone, especially mta cops they wouldnt have any of that.

posted on Dec, 21 2011 @ 08:37 AM
Those who are proud of Israeli Apartheid and proud of Israel in general brag about its number one status in the world in various categories. God knows, we have seen radical Zionists at work here on ATS doing exactly that.

In fact, many of the claims our ATS Zionist zealots make about the little hate-state are false but even I have to admit that when it comes to spying on the US - Israel leads the world. Also, when it comes to sucking US tax dollars out of our country - no entity will ever break Israel's record because we are bankrupt as a result of the evil perpetrated upon us by those who hate us in Israel.

Now, back to the original post.

The abuse of women in Israel as proven by the original post is just another example of the churning hate in the country and that hate against Christians, Americans and of course Arabs spills over into hate of other Israelis.

As a result of this disfunctional foundation upon which Israel is based can we look forward to a bloody civil war in which Israel will self-destruct - more quickly that it is alreay self-destructing, that is?

I would be very interested in your opinion on this question and I would like to thank you for helping exposing the truth about Israel.

Originally posted by Xcathdra

Originally posted by BRAVO949
Can an artificial country based on myth and bindertwined together by a common hate for the outsider and desire to rip-off the American taxpayer end in anything other than civil war?

To date Palestinians have proven that the answer to that question is no. While I get you are speaking about Israel, the exact same holds for Palestinians.

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