Israeli woman refuses ultra-Orthodox dictate to move to back of bus

Hell yeah. Israel needs to kick Netanyahu out of office and start kicking the butts of those crazy extremists. The ultra-orthodox are the Jewish Taliban... they need to be dealt with.

Israeli woman refuses ultra-Orthodox dictate to move to back of bus

A woman passenger on a public bus from Ashdod to Jerusalem Friday was told by an ultra-Orthodox male passenger to move to the back of the bus. The man held the door of the bus open and would not allow it to move for approximately 30 minutes.

When other passengers began to complain about the delay, the driver called the police. The policeman who arrived on the scene spoke with the man and then also asked the woman, Tanya Rosenblit, to move to the back of the bus. When she refused, the man who had been holding the door alighted and the bus continued on its way.

Hell the freaking cop backed that nutjob... ridiculous.

Egged spokesman Ron Ratner condemned the incident, but said such incidents were increasing and that Egged's directives clearly prohibit the driver from "permitting or creating any separation on the bus unless it is voluntary,"

Those kind of incidents are increasing because the extremists are taking over Israel. At least the bus company isn't backing this crap.

Sounds to me like Israel is full of totaly down to earth people, and folks wonder what all the fuss in the middle east is about.

I WONDER.

Rosa Parks would be proud that her legacy is alive and well.

www.rosaparks.org...

Rosa Louise Parks was nationally recognized as the "mother of the modern day civil rights movement" in America. Her refusal to surrender her seat to a white male passenger on a Montgomery, Alabama bus, December 1, 1955, triggered a wave of protest December 5, 1955 that reverberated throughout the United States. Her quiet courageous act changed America, its view of black people and redirected the course of history.

One person can sometimes shake the World...

Peace

wow, just wow. still something to hold up when people start saying that Islam is the crazy religion out there.

reply to post by Vitchilo


As amusing as your comments are, your continued insitance on certain agendas get old. The cops didnt back the guy, contrary to your claim. Have you ever thought about the possibility that no crime was committed? When no crime occured, the police (even in Israel) will act as a mediator, which they did in this case by speaking to both parties, and suggesting a possible resolution by asking the female to move.

She did not, she was NOT arrested, and the guy backed down.

the police did NOT back him. Is it possible for you to comment without pushing your agenda?

As far as the israeli government goes, one could argue that any government that wants to use religion in place of secular laws will in the end be its own undoing.

As Jude11 pointed out, Rosa Parks would be proud.

GO! You brave Israeli woman!

The world has had it with extremists and dictators.

Freedom, end war, live our lives - that is all we need to do.

reply to post by Xcathdra

i would argue the police did back him by suggesting that she be the one to move. she got there first, and he acted like a child and made a scene. the bus was held up for 30 minutes by him, and the police ask HER to move.

they should have said "sir, either take a seat in the back, or get off"

reply to post by Bob Sholtz


Exactly. The cop told the WOMAN to move, not the guy to stop his crap. So the cop backed the crazy.

And Xcathdra, how DARE I support the moderate people in Israel and want that neo-con zionist Netanyahu out of there....

Originally posted by Bob Sholtz
reply to post by Xcathdra

 

i would argue the police did back him by suggesting that she be the one to move. she got there first, and he acted like a child and made a scene. the bus was held up for 30 minutes by him, and the police ask HER to move.

they should have said "sir, either take a seat in the back, or get off"

Since we arent privy to what the police aftually said to each, one could argue they asked the man to knock his crap off and asked him to sit in the back or the front.

If the police took his side, they wouldhave forced the women to move, which they did not.

reply to post by Vitchilo


You seem unusually interested in stories involving Jewish orthodox.

Lets compare the word extremist, because it seems to be used for seemingly anything that you liberals disagree with.

A radical Muslim who blows himself up, is called an extremist.

reply to post by Xcathdra

we are privy

The policeman who arrived on the scene took the man aside for "a pleasant conversation," Rosenblit said, after which the policeman asked her if she would move to the back of the bus.

she was told to go to the back of the bus by the police man, but she refused. good on her.

So if you're trying to imply some civil rights inequality, or base mistreatment of Jewish woman, you couldn't be more wrong.

from the article:

Rosenblit said the man called her a derogatory word for a non-Jewish woman, and told the driver it was HIS RIGHT to have her sit in the back and that he had paid to be able to do so.

yes. this has everything to do with inequality to women, not your "mystical logic" on how the universe works.

reply to post by Bob Sholtz


This is an example of culture disequilibrium. We look at a practice in another culture, and assume, using the experiences in our culture, that it is the same thing.

Why do you think most Orthodox woman don't object to this practice? Any educated Orthodox Jewish woman, if she understand the inner meaning of her Torah, has studied the Kabbalah, knows there is nothing demeaning in this practice.

While in the west, seating blacks at the back of the Bus was DESIGNED as an act of humiliation and degradation of the black - in Jewish culture, it reflects a beautiful and holy divine dynamic - the relationship between masculine and feminine.

It really has nothing whatsoever to do with the lowly ideas which the west has experience with. If it was that, I too would oppose it. But the idea behind the action is different. It is based on a mystical worldview us westerners don't know, because were more or less materialists, and if were spiritual, were a type of spiritual nihilist who opposes a spirituality that seeks freedom through imitation of metaphysical principles.

The spirituality of westerners today is increasingly along the lines of a Buddhism or Gnosticism which resents creation and its laws. It's way to liberation is towards the ALL - which means the particular (the way the world is) is ignored. This means, an equality between men and woman in a literal way. As 'no difference' between the two. Difference to this chaotic mindset is a horrific sounding thing. The man and woman could be interchangeable - their particular form, or capacities, irrelevant to how they should live.

Not all religions are based on this chaotic (and this is precise philosophical term, look up prima materia) outlook. Some religions, like Judaism, seek an intimate connection with the divine through imitation of the divine. This means, understanding the significance of masculine and feminine, and seeking to incarnate these principles in society. The significance of each sex is real, and equal, but they are equal inasmuch as they are different, acting as a positive and negative, or, active and passive, or again, as a giver and receiver. They are two sides forming a complementarity, a whole greater than its parts.

I think it's a beautiful idea. In truth, when you aren't clouded by this western bias against such thinking, it really is innocuous, as well as interesting.

Live and let Live, right? If the Jewish Orthodox are on the upswing in Israel - live and let live. Follow your liberal dictum, and have respect for other peoples and their cultures.

reply to post by dontreally

Any educated Orthodox Jewish woman, if she understand the inner meaning of her Torah, has studied the Kabbalah, knows there is nothing demeaning in this practice.

nothing demeaning, you say? then why did the man cuss her out for it? why didn't he go and sit at the back of the bus if there is nothing demeaning about it?

it reflects a beautiful and holy divine dynamic - the relationship between masculine and feminine.

you find it beautiful just so long as the men get all the higher honors. make the women sit in the back, what do they know?

reply to post by Bob Sholtz


You didn't understand anything that I said, did you?

This again shows the complete alienation of the western mentality from a deeper, more metaphysical reality.

You cannot even understand the terms that I'm speaking in. I might as well be speaking Chinese.

you find it beautiful just so long as the men get all the higher honors. make the women sit in the back, what do they know?

Again, you interpret this in the terminology of your own experience. Because in the west, seating blacks at the back was indicative of their 'slave' status, relative to the whites, you think it means the same thing in a Jewish orthodox context. Do you get how that assumption is wrong?

I know I'm not going to get anywhere with you by pressing this point. It's a metaphysical perspective. The Orthodox - the "ultra" - if you prefer that term, seek an exact representation of the divine formula in human society. This means, on buses, woman go to the back. Why? Because the feminine is the archetype of reception - i.e. the earth (mother earth) receives the fecundating rain (masculine - coming from the sky), or the vagina, receives the penis, or the egg, the semen, or the emotion, the impression of the intellect... The masculine conversely is the giver. The sky gives, hence the sky in ancient mythology was divinized as masculine, while the feminine, as the earth.

Any active, positive (and i mean it in the most abstract of senses), expansive, form of relationship is called masculine, while the feminine is the opposite. It is passive, negative, restrictive. All dualities reflect this dynamic. Right is masculine, while left is feminine. Up is masculine, while down is feminine. Front is masculine, while back is feminine. The bus is imagined, again, in an esoteric way, as a microcosm of the world. Within the world, the female follows the divine dynamic, by taking her place at the back, while the masculine assumes his place at the front.

It's hard for such a philosophical attitude to thrive, and be seen for what it is, and could potentially be, when so many people oppose it. It is the obstruction in the system. It's also the root reason for anti-semitism. The elites i.e. the Hellenists, hate this Jewish philosophy. Before 1800, which means, for over 3000 years, this was the Jewish/Hebraic mentality.

It's hard to speak this way to someone poisoned by the culture of the west. It's sad, because it really is an interesting way to look at the world.

reply to post by dontreally

i understand perfectly, but you claim i don't so that you don't have to formulate a response. i've studied many religions in some depth, and many cultures.

this whole "men and women are equal, BUT one always serves, and the other always is serviced" doesn't speak of equality at all.

equality is similar to interchangeable. yes, there are roles men and women gravitate to, but there is no need to force them into it.

culture is largely born out of a silly want to be like everyone else around you. it's origin is shallow. the same mechanisms that have given rise to the most ridiculous fashions, and the same mechanisms that cause one group of boys to bully another group are the same that cause cultures to develop over time.

Originally posted by Bob Sholtz
we are privy

The policeman who arrived on the scene took the man aside for "a pleasant conversation," Rosenblit said, after which the policeman asked her if she would move to the back of the bus.

she was told to go to the back of the bus by the police man, but she refused. good on her.

No we arent privy.
And no they didnt tell her to go to the back of the bus. They asked her if she would, and she declined -. She was not forced.

Originally posted by Bob Sholtz
So if you're trying to imply some civil rights inequality, or base mistreatment of Jewish woman, you couldn't be more wrong.

from the article:

Rosenblit said the man called her a derogatory word for a non-Jewish woman, and told the driver it was HIS RIGHT to have her sit in the back and that he had paid to be able to do so.


yes. this has everything to do with inequality to women, not your "mystical logic" on how the universe works.

edit on 18-12-2011 by Bob Sholtz because: (no reason given)

Riiight....

reply to post by dontreally


I know exactly what your saying, but its still a bunch of opinionated religious hoopla!
Sorry for the truth

reply to post by Xcathdra


So what you are implying is that there is nothing wrong with this man complaining that the woman should move to the back of the bus and holding everyone else up for 30mins? Imagine how this would make you feel? That someone looked upon you as lower than themselves? It is not a question of whether she moved or not..it is about the underlying injustice from this man.

reply to post by dontreally


Well obviously this woman was not orthodox...and he should have "respected" that instead of trying to thrust his religion on her.

Separate buses for men and women. Problem solved.

I personally don't like sitting next to strange men on public transport nor in front of me or behind me.