PM David Cameron says the UK is a Christian country

So David Cameron has come out in defence of Religion and Its role in Society and Politics.
I'm not sure how this will go down and it will be interesting to see what happens and what the public's reaction is to it, and also other politicians.

Also interesting when he talks about moral collapse...

David Cameron has said the UK is a Christian country "and we should not be afraid to say so". In a speech in Oxford on the 400th anniversary of the King James Bible, the prime minister called for a revival of traditional Christian values to counter Britain's "moral collapse". He said "live and let live" had too often become "do what you please". The PM said it was wrong to suggest that standing up for Christianity was "somehow doing down other faiths". Describing himself as a "committed" but only "vaguely practising" Christian, the PM admitted he was "full of doubts" about big theological issues.

"We are a Christian country and we should not be afraid to say so," he told the audience at Christ Church. "Let me be clear: I am not in any way saying that to have another faith - or no faith - is somehow wrong. "I know and fully respect that many people in this country do not have a religion. "And I am also incredibly proud that Britain is home to many different faith communities, who do so much to make our country stronger. "But what I am saying is that the Bible has helped to give Britain a set of values and morals which make Britain what it is today."

Read the article here

www.bbc.co.uk...

The UK is a muslim majority country these days if you take into account those that say they are christian but do not practice. I can't wait for the day that it doesn't matter what religion you believe in, as nobody will care.

I hate to agree with Alistair Campbell but I have to on this issue... "politicians shouldn't 'do God'"
He's absolutely spot on.
Britain is a secular society, not a Christian society.... and nobody is devoid from morals if they don't read the bible or practice some form of religion.... I would argue quite the opposite.

Cameron says : "But what I am saying is that the Bible has helped to give Britain a set of values and morals which make Britain what it is today."


I find that to be offensive and ridiculous.


The societal breakdown has nothing to do with a lack of religion, it is to do with money, injustice, lack of education, lack of opportunities, lack of parental control, financial worries and many other smaller pieces of the bigger picture... religion is not one of them.


I hope people come out and challenge him on this.


Trust the tories to come out with this...


Same old same old with them....

reply to post by blupblup


I actually found you downplaying the fact that traditionally UK is a Christian Society as offensive, yeah lets just throw away 2000 years of history. It has only become secular because of our christian beliefs in tollerating other religions and allowing free practice of those religions in our country. That does not take away the fact that our country is built upon Christian values. wether you believe in a religion or not there is nothing wrong with following Christian values because they are for the good.

Pretty soon the bible thumpers will be running your country like they do over here in the states. Welcome to the never ending holy war code named the war on terror.

reply to post by michael1983l




I am not downplaying the religions role in creating our country over many, many decades.... merely pointing out that now, in the 21st century, things have changed.
Christianity does not make people moral or does not make for a better, more tolerant society, not at all.

And this is the notion that Cameron is putting forward, I find it not only offensive but absolutely contrary and absurd.

Originally posted by buster2010
Pretty soon the bible thumpers will be running your country like they do over here in the states. Welcome to the never ending holy war code named the war on terror.

That has absolutely no foundation. The British public are very moderate when it comes to religion and actually borders on apathetic. Two different nations with no parallels at all when it comes to religion aside from the fact that we are both christian, thats it. Most people in the UK these days class themselves as Atheist.

Originally posted by blupblup
I hate to agree with Alistair Campbell but I have to on this issue... "politicians shouldn't 'do God'"
He's absolutely spot on.

I totally agree. However, in defence of Cameron I think he he attempting to point out that Britain is a Christian nation with traditions and principles which are are essentailly Christian. On this basis, the arguement goes, we sould not be continually pandering to the whims and fancies of other religious pressures which effect and impact this principle.

A few examples off the top of my head, such as banning Christmas cards in certain Councils or or being forced to "turn off" the ringing of church bells because they may offend some other faith etc...

Regards

Originally posted by blupblup
reply to post by michael1983l

 

I am not downplaying the religions role in creating our country over many, many decades.... merely pointing out that now, in the 21st century, things have changed.
Christianity does not make people moral or does not make for a better, more tolerant society, not at all.

And this is the notion that Cameron is putting forward, I find it not only offensive but absolutely contrary and absurd.

How do you think that is when the majority of our laws are based on religious beliefs and when you go to court you have to swear by the bible? Like I said you do not have to believe in religion to believe in the moral beliefs.

Originally posted by michael1983l
wether you believe in a religion or not there is nothing wrong with following Christian values because they are for the good.

See this is the point that religious folk and those who believe that somehow religion = morals, just don't understand.


There is something called humanity.... something else that is called humanism.



hu·man·ism (hym-nzm)
n.
1. A system of thought that rejects religious beliefs and centers on humans and their values, capacities, and worth.
2. Concern with the interests, needs, and welfare of humans: "the newest flower on the vine of corporate humanism" (Savvy).
3. Medicine The concept that concern for human interests, values, and dignity is of the utmost importance to the care of the sick.
4. The study of the humanities; learning in the liberal arts.
5. Humanism A cultural and intellectual movement of the Renaissance that emphasized secular concerns as a result of the rediscovery and study of the literature, art, and civilization of ancient Greece and Rome.



And the point is, nobody needs religion to be moral or caring or loving or just and fair and tolerant and nice and loving and understanding and considerate and altruistic and courteous and anything else you can think of.
Human beings already have it, we always have done... it's in our make up, it's in our psyche...


Anyone who tries to argue that religion = morals is a moron.

reply to post by blupblup


Ok then can you tell me whch of these beliefs you do not believe in

Murder being criminal
Theft being criminal
Bigomy being crminal
Violence being criminal


I c ould go on, but I am just highlighting the fact that no matter how you obtained your morale values that they still end up pretty similar to christian values. So I do not get why you wish not to defend your own morals?

I have no issues with what he said as my issues will be with how what he said will be used.

I live in what has been described as Britains Godless capital.. yet nearly all of the most ardent atheists I know stick to the point that they accept Christian values.. they welcome the stance on tolerance.. they just do not buy the idea of a Christian god or the know it alls that come with that belief

As George Owell put in in the 1940s the Church has never really held sway over the country and although we as a nation may have forgotten the name of Jesus but we have not forgotten the lessons he taught.

Originally posted by michael1983l
Most people in the UK these days class themselves as Atheist.

Actually, you are wrong. 75% of Britons consider themselves to be Christian, whether they are Church-goers or not. About 15% say they don't follow a religion, so these could be considered atheists, although I doubt they would categorise themselves as such. The UK Census will give you the exactitudes.

Regards

Originally posted by michael1983l
The UK is a muslim majority country these days if you take into account those that say they are christian but do not practice.

Where do you get that rubbish from

There is 62+ Million people in the UK, about 1.6 million of them are Muslim, whilst:

The 2001 census showed that 42,079,000 identified themselves as Christians. This equates to 71.6 percent of the population.

So 40(ish) million people claiming they are Christian but not practising? Yeah, right.

I am also not denying that religion had essentially ruled the UK up until 50-60 years ago.... the clergy and church used to be more powerful than kings and queens.
I am well aware of religions rule in the history of our nation.


BUT


That does not mean, after all the progress we have made, after many people have discarded religion and as we have reclaimed our minds and the ability to think and dream our own thoughts, not just those prescribed and dictated to us through scripture, that we should start going backwards.

Religion is on the decline in the UK and that is a GOOD thing.

A very good thing.


Here is a good analogy about religion (religious toys)

reply to post by woogleuk


Have you ever been to a CofE church on a sunday, one word best describes them.... empty

Originally posted by paraphi

Actually, you are wrong. 75% of Britons consider themselves to be Christian, whether they are Church-goers or not. About 15% say they don't follow a religion, so these could be considered atheists, although I doubt they would categorise themselves as such. The UK Census will give you the exactitudes.

Regards

There have been several more recent polls done and religious people actually represent around half of the population. (probably less)

There are several threads on ATS about it.

Many people are "registered" religious... ie; christened and so on, but they didn't have a choice and do not consider themselves religious.




33% or those questioned considered themselves a "religious" person.

www.guardian.co.uk...

In a poll conducted by YouGov in March 2011 on behalf of the BHA, when asked the census question ‘What is your religion?’, 61% of people in England and Wales ticked a religious box (53.48% Christian and 7.22% other) while 39% ticked ‘No religion’. When the same sample was asked the follow-up question ‘Are you religious?’, only 29% of the same people said ‘Yes’ while 65% said ‘No’, meaning over half of those whom the census would count as having a religion said they were not religious.

Less than half (48%) of those who ticked ‘Christian’ said they believed that Jesus Christ was a real person who died and came back to life and was the son of God. Asked when they had last attended a place of worship for religious reasons, most people in England and Wales (63%) had not attended in the past year, 43% of people last attended over a year ago and 20% of people had never attended. Only 9% of people had attended a place of worship within the last week.

www.humanism.org.uk...


And from that, the most interesting part is this.


________________________________________________________________________________________
when asked the census question ‘What is your religion?’, 61% of people in England and Wales ticked a religious box (53.48% Christian and 7.22% other) while 39% ticked ‘No religion’.

When the same sample was asked the follow-up question ‘Are you religious?’, only 29% of the same people said ‘Yes’ while 65% said ‘No’, meaning over half of those whom the census would count as having a religion said they were not religious.
_________________________________________________________________________________________

That sums up my point right there... HAVING a religion (by no fault of their own) and BEING religious are two very different things.

There are many, many polls and stats and figures showing just how much religion is on the decline in the UK and how most people do not consider themselves religious.

Originally posted by michael1983l
Have you ever been to a CofE church on a sunday, one word best describes them.... empty

Have you been to Church lately? I am not a regular Church-goer, but my local is far from empty. However, Church attendance is not the measure of whether society is Christian or not.

Regards

reply to post by michael1983l

I actually found you downplaying the fact that traditionally UK is a Christian Society as offensive, yeah lets just throw away 2000 years of history

Yeah like anyone goes to church anymore... Get real.. It is shedding off 2000 years of lies and bigitorty...

reply to post by paraphi



Neither is the census as the question is usually answered by what people were christened. Christenings are still popular culture despite the fact that many people that do it don't practice religion at all.