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Seven Lessons from a Thief - When is it too late to find salvation?

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posted on Dec, 15 2011 @ 06:55 AM
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Originally posted by 547000
reply to post by NowanKenubi
 


Hebrews 10: 26 For if we deliberately continue to sin after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but only the terrifying prospect of Judgment, or raging fire that will consume the enemies.

What I find interesting is one his left hand is condemnation and right hand is mercy. What happened with the thieves will happen with the world in judgement.


Another part of this is knowing when our salvation comes. Hebrews 9:28 makes it clear that sin and death are fully conquered before the 1000 years of peace. Following this, we are with Christ as all things are revealed. Faith transitions to fact. This gives us a perspective of the following:

Law was our guardian.

Galatians 3

23 Before the coming of this faith,[j] we were held in custody under the law, locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed. 24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith. 25 Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.

26 So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, 27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

The law transitions to faith. Faith is the hope of future salvation and forgiveness. Faith and hope become a face to face understanding of fact. From this we see the need to never return to sin and death by the law. Hebrews 10 points to the need to remain in Christ after salvation. When is salvation?

Hebrews 9

27 Just as people are destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, 28 so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

The dead in Christ rise first in the 1000 years of peace. The second death has no power. Tie this in with the words of Jesus in John 3. "You must be born again." Tie this in with baptism. John the Baptist was Elijah. He has control of who will be baptized. What is baptism? Immersion in the water of material world. Who did he deny baptism in Matthew? The pharisees and the Sadducees, or those who deny Jesus as the Christ. The common people were welcomed.

The dead in Christ will rise to new life. In other words, they will be welcomed into the 1000 years apart from the influence of sin and death. They will live by fact and not merely faith and hope of something to come. What is to come will have already arrived to a final salvation of abundant life--the day of rest.

Are we appointed to wrath? No. The wrath of God will be poured out on the unsaved world when we are taken. Christ took this wrath on for us who claim the redemption.



edit on 15-12-2011 by SuperiorEd because: (no reason given)




posted on Dec, 15 2011 @ 07:03 AM
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Originally posted by EPH612

Originally posted by BeforeTheHangmansNoose
reply to post by SuperiorEd
 


So essentially the thief took all power and responsibility away from himself and put it somewhere else? Sounds like a wise man.



I wouldn't exactly say that. The thief took responsibility for his sins, and asked for forgiveness from God because only God has the power to forgive sins. The thief accepted he was going to die a sinner and the power had always belonged to God.


So again, he took all power and responsibility from himself by letting god save him.

So if a man kills 5 people, goes into hiding for the rest of his life, its ok because while he was hiding, he realized what he did and decided that god can fix his problems?

I cannot comprehend why you would need someone or something else to pat you on your head, give you a sip of warm milk and send you on your way. "There there, daddy forgives you"



posted on Dec, 15 2011 @ 08:13 AM
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Originally posted by Unrealised
I have often asked this to holy men, and am yet to get an answer.

"If Satan finally or for some reason realised the error of his ways (no matter how proud he is supposed to be) and asks God for forgiveness, will it be granted?"



Wouldn't matter. Christ never incarnated as an angel to die for them.



posted on Dec, 15 2011 @ 08:21 AM
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Originally posted by ThrowCatsAtCacti
Is it too late for me to find salvation after I deficated on the bible, cross, preists, vatican, pope and started a fire on the wood fence of heaven



No it is not, but from your mindset...i'd be surprised if you even asked for forgiveness or even recognize you've wrongs.

You have that greasy feeling people who are condemned with apathy have on them.



posted on Dec, 15 2011 @ 08:40 AM
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reply to post by BeforeTheHangmansNoose
 



"There there, daddy forgives you".


So when you violated Dad's rules growing up, you never figured it out, nor did you ask Dad to forgive you?



posted on Dec, 15 2011 @ 09:41 AM
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Originally posted by BeforeTheHangmansNoose


So again, he took all power and responsibility from himself by letting god save him.

So if a man kills 5 people, goes into hiding for the rest of his life, its ok because while he was hiding, he realized what he did and decided that god can fix his problems?

I cannot comprehend why you would need someone or something else to pat you on your head, give you a sip of warm milk and send you on your way. "There there, daddy forgives you"



Once again, he didn't take any power from himself. The thief wasn't the one with the power, God was. The thief never had the power. God is the only one with the power to forgive sins. You can't take something from yourself that you've never had. And he didn't give the responsibility to God, the thief took responsibility for his actions and accepted the earthly consequences.

And if the man who kills five people genuinely repents to God for his actions, then God will forgive him. It's not that God fixes our problems, He forgives our sins. The murderer would still have to take the earthly consequences for his actions, but God has forgiven him. God wants to forgive us of any and all sins. And it sounds like you're assuming murder is worse than other sins. Whether you're a liar, a murderer, or a thief, it's all sin. And God cannot abide ANY sin. But if we ask for forgiveness, God doesn't hold our sins against us. To Him, it's almost like it never happened. But we still have to take the earthly consequences for our actions.
edit on 12/15/11 by EPH612 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 15 2011 @ 11:40 AM
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As to the issue of it never being too late to repent, I have this analogy. Think of salvation as being like a sale at some store. Anything you want is free, paid for by the store owner. But - it's this weekend only, and you must clip the coupon and bring that in. If you neglect the coupon, or wait until Monday morning, you must pay full price.

In the same way, salvation is free, and Jesus paid for yours with His life. If you wait until after death, it is too late, and you must now pay full price, which is your life, That is the second death.



posted on Dec, 15 2011 @ 04:17 PM
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Originally posted by britelite1971
reply to post by SuperiorEd
 


Thanks brother for the good message! Although the message may be rejected by some now it may come back to them later at just the right moment.


That's right. It's a seed. The thief jumped on the truth at the last minute. There will be a time when men will realize. According to scripture, there will be a sign. At this moment, billions of souls will enter the books. Muslims know Jesus, they are just misguided as to the truth of love. The Jewish people know of Jesus and will awakened to the truth. The last tribulation is a time of trouble for Jacob. Jacob is Israel.

One thing I have never understood: How can a person of Hebrew descent read Isaiah 53 and not realize already?



posted on Dec, 15 2011 @ 06:30 PM
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Originally posted by EPH612

Originally posted by BeforeTheHangmansNoose


So again, he took all power and responsibility from himself by letting god save him.

So if a man kills 5 people, goes into hiding for the rest of his life, its ok because while he was hiding, he realized what he did and decided that god can fix his problems?

I cannot comprehend why you would need someone or something else to pat you on your head, give you a sip of warm milk and send you on your way. "There there, daddy forgives you"



Once again, he didn't take any power from himself. The thief wasn't the one with the power, God was. The thief never had the power. God is the only one with the power to forgive sins. You can't take something from yourself that you've never had. And he didn't give the responsibility to God, the thief took responsibility for his actions and accepted the earthly consequences.

And if the man who kills five people genuinely repents to God for his actions, then God will forgive him. It's not that God fixes our problems, He forgives our sins. The murderer would still have to take the earthly consequences for his actions, but God has forgiven him. God wants to forgive us of any and all sins. And it sounds like you're assuming murder is worse than other sins. Whether you're a liar, a murderer, or a thief, it's all sin. And God cannot abide ANY sin. But if we ask for forgiveness, God doesn't hold our sins against us. To Him, it's almost like it never happened. But we still have to take the earthly consequences for our actions.
edit on 12/15/11 by EPH612 because: (no reason given)


Wow you really don't know what i'm talking about. I give up, carry on with your dis-empowerment.



posted on Dec, 15 2011 @ 10:37 PM
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reply to post by SuperiorEd
 



How can a person of Hebrew descent read Isaiah 53 and not realize already?


Because Christ cursed them with spiritual "blindness".



posted on Dec, 15 2011 @ 10:57 PM
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Originally posted by SuperiorEd

Originally posted by ThrowCatsAtCacti
Is it too late for me to find salvation after I deficated on the bible, cross, preists, vatican, pope and started a fire on the wood fence of heaven


The gate is very narrow. You must examine yourself and recognize the need for salvation. Apart from seeing our self in light of God's righteousness and humbling the soul, salvation is far removed. As Paul Washer points out, there are even many who call themselves Christians who are equally lost in the world. "Conversion is not like a flu shot." God begins a good work in us unless we deny that He can or will. It's always a choice to embrace or deny truth.

The truth is not that you dedicate on on the world, but that you choose to do this to yourself. Jesus offers a way past depravity and sickness of the soul.






Did you actually watch that video?

What reason does God have to hate?

Your boy paul washer is spreading nothing but hatred my friend...

That video is trash... and it should be treated as such





posted on Dec, 16 2011 @ 08:52 AM
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reply to post by BeforeTheHangmansNoose
 


Could you elaborate a bit more than that? Sorry if I misunderstood your post, so please enlighten me. What WERE you trying to say?



posted on Dec, 16 2011 @ 09:49 AM
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Vicarious redemption, one of the most immoral concepts religion and theists have ever conceived.

The thief should of apologized and attempted to make amends (if he could) to those he stole from.

That some invisible sky daddy even cared that this person was taking other peoples 'stuff' is irrelevant.

In this story the thief went on to heaven and everything was good (for him) because this 'god' forgave him.....but the people/person he stole from? they're still down the 'stuff' he took, and have had no apology nor any amends.

I don't know about any of you, but if I had stolen from someone, I would seek redemption and forgiveness from those I stole from, and not from someone/something that was not involved......no matter how 'wrathful' it got.



posted on Dec, 17 2011 @ 05:35 AM
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reply to post by Prezbo369
 


The thief was paying for his life of crime by being crucified on the cross, surely thats punishment enough. God through his son Jesus gives us a chance at eternal salvation. His teachings are basically every single one of us falls short of the right to go to heaven on our own merit due to our sinful nature. So Jesus the Son of God being sinless was crucified for our our sins. If we commit crimes or sin badly in this life we are still subject to the cause and effect of those sins whatever they may be but eternal salvation through Jesus is available to all of us.



posted on Dec, 17 2011 @ 05:49 AM
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reply to post by dflogan77
 



The thief was paying for his life of crime by being crucified on the cross, surely thats punishment enough.


Yes sir, the wages of sin is death.



posted on Dec, 17 2011 @ 07:32 AM
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Originally posted by dflogan77
The thief was paying for his life of crime by being crucified on the cross, surely thats punishment enough.


I wasn't talking about punishment, I was talking about real forgiveness from the only people able to give it to the thief, those he stole from, the victims of his crime. That would be true redemption, that would be true righteousness. That this 'god' character also offered these things should be meaningless as it had nothing to do with it.

Vicarious redemption, an immoral concept that affects us all. If you steal from me I hope for apologies and an attempt at redemption from you, and you alone. You do not get to pass on your responsibility to someone else.

Take responsibility for your own actions.......



posted on Dec, 17 2011 @ 11:06 AM
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reply to post by Prezbo369
 


Unfortunately, the thief was in no position to make amends for his crimes. Fotunately, God was the owner of the thief, the victims, and the stolen goods. He had every right to forgive the thief, and He did. This goes far beyond mere human property rights. Look at the big picture.



posted on Dec, 17 2011 @ 09:34 PM
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Thanks Lazarus well put. I'm sure that the thief would have returned all he stole plus promised more and begged for forgivess from those he stole from to get his life back, if given the chance. Possibly those he stole from were watching him hang, you never know!



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