We are all in heaven NOW

reply to post by ErroneousDylan


Thanks, but I don't really need your help. I know that you think he is talking about Tolle's message but giving the net a quick look I see that Tolle doesn't say that this is heaven. He says that the bible prophecy of a new earth and heaven is about a transformed state of human consciousness (heaven) and it's reflection manifested in the physical world (earth).

This sounds like it but the whole "this is heaven" got him in trouble when asked to clear some things up and he never came through. I think he wanted to borrow from Tolle and seem enlightened. I mean he even called himself a "knowledgeable philosopher" but when the tough questions rolled out he choked. I'm sure Tolle would have had much better answers.

Originally posted by daskakik
reply to post by ErroneousDylan

 

Thanks, but I don't really need your help. I know that you think he is talking about Tolle's message but giving the net a quick look I see that Tolle doesn't say that this is heaven. He says that the bible prophecy of a new earth and heaven is about a transformed state of human consciousness (heaven) and it's reflection manifested in the physical world (earth).

This sounds like it but the whole "this is heaven" got him in trouble with those that asked him to clear some things up and he never came through. I think he wanted to borrow from Tolle and seem enlightened. I mean he even called himself a "knowledgeable philosopher" but when the tough questions rolled out he choked. I'm sure Tolle would have had much better answers.

edit on 12-12-2011 by daskakik because: (no reason given)

I am sure you are correct, Tolle probably would have gave more sound answers. I agree with Tolle's interpretation of Heaven as well. So, if everyone were to become "enlightened" in relation to Tolle. Would this place be Heaven? If we were to change our perspective to be higher conscious human beings, would it be Heaven?

reply to post by ErroneousDylan


Actually all I have read is the wiki page of his book A New Earth and the vid you posted. From what I read there I would say that heaven is non physical so this material "place" would not fit but again that is from a very superficial glance at his work.

Originally posted by daskakik
reply to post by ErroneousDylan

 

Actually all I have read is the wiki page of his book A New Earth and the vid you posted. From what I read there I would say that heaven is non physical so this material "place" would not fit but again that is from a very superficial glance at his work.

Well, I think we have beat this dead horse long enough. I would have to agree with that but my ideology states that this isn't a physical place, we just conceptualize it as one. That is just my belief though, if it goes against what you say.. than so be it.

Originally posted by ErroneousDylan
I would have to agree with that but my ideology states that this isn't a physical place, we just conceptualize it as one. That is just my belief though, if it goes against what you say.. than so be it.

But the question wasn't about my belief. You asked:

I agree with Tolle's interpretation of Heaven as well. So, if everyone were to become "enlightened" in relation to Tolle. Would this place be Heaven? If we were to change our perspective to be higher conscious human beings, would it be Heaven?

My response was in relation to Tolle based on what little information I have. He is the one that makes the distinction between heaven and earth in his book A New Earth

"A new heaven" is the emergence of a transformed state of human consciousness, and "a new earth" is its reflection in the physical realm.

Those are his words not mine.

ETA: Another quote from the same book showing that he doesn't believe this world and heaven are or can be the same but are in fact two seperate parts of a whole.

What you see, hear, feel, touch, or think about is only one half of reality, so to speak. It is form. In the teaching of Jesus, it is simply called “the world,” and the other dimension is “the kingdom of heaven or eternal life.”

reply to post by 1littlewolf


Show them empathy. Show them there are others less fortunate so they'll be compassionate adults one day. If they are shown only that life is My Little Pony Land and no one is born, without a choice, in an unfortunate situation, then your kids will surely latch onto the the "I got mine screw everyone else". That mentality based on selfishness and arrogance is why the world is in the state it is. To change the world we must change ourselves and educate the youth. Rose colored glasses cant mask the smell of the rotting world and you know it.

Originally posted by daskakik

ETA: Another quote from the same book showing that he doesn't believe this world and heaven are or can be the same but are in fact two seperate parts of a whole.

What you see, hear, feel, touch, or think about is only one half of reality, so to speak. It is form. In the teaching of Jesus, it is simply called “the world,” and the other dimension is “the kingdom of heaven or eternal life.”

edit on 12-12-2011 by daskakik because: (no reason given)

Half of reality is physical, yes. That does not mean that since you exist in the physical world, that you cannot experience the other half of life. If Heaven is one half of reality and "this world" is the other half then surely as a whole they are one, no?

reply to post by Krono


Dont do it. Right now you, as a teenager, are in "whatever" mode, but this decision will haunt you forever even if you think you've supressed it. Think of me as the voice of a parallel you. Dont do it.

reply to post by ErroneousDylan


I'm just pointing out that Tolle doesn't say that this half of reality will become heaven. So according to him, the answer to "If we were to change our perspective to be higher conscious human beings, would it be Heaven?", would seem to be no.

It also supports the OP's idea that we are in heaven right now, which is what made me think this is what he drew from, but not that this half of reality is heaven or can become heaven.

As for my take, I really have not read enough to give an opinion. One thing that I will say is that I found the second quote searching for the word "heaven" in the book. It shows up 17 times in a document of over 74k words. He doesn't seem to place much emphasis on it.

Originally posted by daskakik
reply to post by ErroneousDylan

 

I'm just pointing out that Tolle doesn't say that this half of reality will become heaven. So according to him, the answer to "If we were to change our perspective to be higher conscious human beings, would it be Heaven?", would seem to be no.

It also supports the OP's idea that we are in heaven right now, which is what made me think this is what he drew from, but not that this half of reality is heaven or can become heaven.

As for my take, I really have not read enough to give an opinion. One thing that I will say is that I found the second quote searching for the word "heaven" in the book. It shows up 17 times in a document of over 74k words. He doesn't seem to place much emphasis on it.

I have read all of Tolle's work. He uses the word God as little as possible too because he feels that over time they have lost their meaning and have a different kind of symbology. Most people can't hear the word Heaven or God without thinking of Christianity and The Bible. Tolle's words would answer my question as yes because that is the sole teachings of his book. He believes that all of negativity, suffering, and "evil" are just manifestations of the "egoic" mind and it's lust for suffering, and without it we are in a state of perfection (heaven). Of course, upon hearing those words out of context it sounds quite absurd. When he explains it though, it makes quite a lot of sense. However, that is just my opinion.

reply to post by arpgme


If we're in heaven now, I don't want to even think what hell is like.

reply to post by daskakik


Everyone lives in the garden of Eden but not everyone can see paradise. Paradise is 'right here, right now' in plain sight but humans are looking 'there and then'. They don't feel the world, they 'think' the world, it is very different. They don't feel the presence, they 'think' time.

Eckhart Tolle used to be full of anxiety and depression, on many occasions he considered suicide, he lived in Hell. He said to himself on one occasion 'I can not live with myself, I will have to kill myself' and he heard himself and thought 'what? how many are there of me?' There is an 'I' and a 'me' and we can't live together!!?? But there is only one of me!
The next day he awoke free from anxiety and depression and spent years trying to understand what had happened, he understands now and has written books and spreads his message. Heaven is the place he inhabits now compared to the hell he was living before. Eckhart Tolle had an awakening, he woke up to the truth. The truth shall set you free, free from fear and confusion. When the fear and confusion are gone it does feel like Heaven.

reply to post by Itisnowagain


truth dont set anyone free, it is obvious that the most one is being true the more he is enslaved directly and abused, only liars and hypocrits that suit themselves to b through powerful sources are free

truth by definition is never powerful when truth is free right perspective upon any and all what matter

powers are principal opposition to truth while all is exclusively bc of powers and for

reply to post by absolutely


Speaking the truth may not be liberating but knowing the truth is.

Originally posted by daskakik
but when the tough questions rolled out he choked.

Questions such as? Which did I not already answer?

reply to post by Itisnowagain


that again what prove the evil u r

truth knowledge is liberating only to evil ones that already see truth as an object to abuse for best life
that never see truth from being constantly involved to exist through

if truth is then it is u not smthg to know

truth is freedom if evil werent its conditions life

even in saying smthg right the free sense is obvious out as clearly being above what is said as a plus that can mean smthg else or focus on smthg to support

reply to post by ErroneousDylan

Perfect example of why it's not a good idea to present an opinion without enough info.

I understand the point of using god and heaven as little as possible but he actually used it in the quote I posted and it clearly states that Jesus taught that what we experience is the world and that another dimension is heaven. Now if the words have lost their original meaning why is he using them, in that quote, pretty much like religious people do today?

The difference I see is that, according to Tolle, heaven isn't a place but that just brings us full circle because if it isn't a place then logically it can't be this place. Which brings us back to what words mean and I will say this, if the meaning of words have changed then it is the authors responibility to use the words that best convey his message instead of trying to change the meaning that those words currently have.

It comes down to poor word choice. It's sad that something which can be of great importance is misunderstood because of something so trivial. On the other hand keeping certain elements of christianity makes it more appealing to the religious portion of the population. Marketing? I would not be surprised and I understand that it really doesn't take away from the validity of the message but it does create the type of miscommunication shown in this thread.

Maybe you should start a thread on Tolle, if there isn't one already, and layout his message in plain english so that those who wish to discuss it can do so in a less emotional and conflictive fashion.

reply to post by daskakik


Well, I would say it is quite the opposite of "poor word choice". It may sound like a marketing scheme, and that is surely what it is but I can say that it would be the purpose of trying to rake in as much cash as possible. I would say that it is merely appealing to the masses to help them along. A lot of the world, at least America, agrees with the teachings of Jesus very much, so if he is able to convey his message through the metaphors of Jesus, then I'm sure he will do so. However, it's not the definitions of these words, such as God or Heaven, that have change, it is merely the symbolism behind them. He doesn't want the image of a Man-like figure in the Clouds Above pointing his finger and judging mankind to come across.

As for a thread, I already have one that sort of conveys Tolle's message but it is still not as good as I believe he has done it. I would suggest any of my friends to read his books.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

and the only truth that ur brain can mean is powers on urself existence so it is nothing to truth

so it is always about ur same illusions of ur free wills that became enpowered by meaning that truth is killed so u have no obligation to respect anything and especially urself fact

Originally posted by ErroneousDylan
reply to post by daskakik

 

A lot of the world, at least America, agrees with the teachings of Jesus very much, so if he is able to convey his message through the metaphors of Jesus, then I'm sure he will do so.

That is the way I see it.

However, it's not the definitions of these words, such as God or Heaven, that have change, it is merely the symbolism behind them. He doesn't want the image of a Man-like figure in the Clouds Above pointing his finger and judging mankind to come across.

But, honestly, if he doesn't want that image the best way is to not use that word. Of course it looses acceptability but most christians will snap shut as soon as they figure out that it isn't their version your talking about anyway. This thread pretty much proves that.