We are all in heaven NOW

reply to post by arpgme


Empathy means to feel for someone.

Sympathy means to feel with someone.

Either way, why are you guys arguing about heaven? Agree to disagree already and discuss what your own personal heaven would be like.

My ideal heaven would have very few people and many trees and waterfalls and wild animals. I'm thinking about becoming a hermit so I can go to heaven.

reply to post by ottobot


I believe many people are arguing because they are confusing the fact that the OP is stating that you can gain the perception, perspective, and reality OF Heaven, here on Earth. While others think he means that this IS Heaven in a sense of say... The Bible. Of course, everything is ultimately one so there is really no need in distinguishing the two.

This may be true...

Heaven and Hell are not places, .... but states of mind, ... or states of being.

Heaven exists where you make it, ...... wether here or on the other side, we are the creators, and the world a landscape to paint what you will.

a master doesnt create perfection .... but realizes that everything is already perfect.

Originally posted by IntastellaBurst


This may be true...

Heaven and Hell are not places, .... but states of mind, ... or states of being.

Heaven exists where you make it, ...... wether here or on the other side, we are the creators, and the world a landscape to paint what you will.

a master doesnt create perfection .... but realizes that everything is already perfect.

Indeed. We can not label something as being "good" without creating the opposite label.

reply to post by arpgme

There's just no way anyone can get through to someone like you, but someday your own elevated opinion of yourself will do you in, and during the long fall after you tumble off the pedestal on which you've mistakenly placed yourself, you will be shocked by not so much the physical pain you suffer upon reaching bottom, as you will the mental anguish over that which you have lost along the way!
I have lived many years and have seen men die in ways you couldn't even imagine, and the ones who sounded much like yourself passed in absolute terror, as they realized just how wrong they had been! I myself have met death head on several times, and each time was unfortunate enough to end up back here. I have seen what I can only call "Heaven", and now that I'm tired and fighting my last fight, I am looking forward to finally returning home.
Take a good look at yourself before your ego gets any bigger (if that's possible). Do you think perhaps those around you might be a bit tired of your self righteousness?
My first thoughts after reading your reply were that you were much like a child and simply had a lot to learn, but a child realizes this, whereas you don't! I hope you can accept my sincere apology for calling you an idiot in my first reply to you. You are simply a human being who seems to have been misguided by a hundreds of years old institution that uses fear, pride and ignorance as its ways of controlling the masses!
Blessings!

reply to post by ottobot


You're actually close!
Line Two.

Originally posted by FlySolo
reply to post by eNaR

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but are you trying to insinuate other countries close to the coc aine are happy because they are users? Really? Drug addiction creates happiness? If this is your argument, double wow!

You're kind of wrong. I implied they'd be happy (or, because I haven't nor ever will do coc aine, whatever feeling one gets) for a "brief period of time" after doing coc aine.

The more I read things like this, the more I go from Agnostic to Atheist... I don't care where I am. Sometime's I'm happy, sometimes I'm not.

Welcome to heaven where everyone is happy and everywhere you go there are fluffy animals, sunshine, sparkling water and friendly people. Please mind the war, famine, crime, destruction, poverty and natural disasters on your way through. By the way... don't forget to pay your angel tax!

If this is heaven then I want to try out hell!

Yea cause in heaven people starve, murder and go without shelter....Thought heaven was utopia? If this is heaven I want out!

Originally posted by Bkrmn
reply to post by arpgme

 

I have lived many years and have seen men die in ways you couldn't even imagine, and the ones who sounded much like yourself passed in absolute terror, as they realized just how wrong they had been! I myself have met death head on several times, and each time was unfortunate enough to end up back here. I have seen what I can only call "Heaven", and now that I'm tired and fighting my last fight, I am looking forward to finally returning home.

They let situations control their emotions. They allowed themselves to pass in terror instead of staying happy.

Originally posted by Bkrmn
Take a good look at yourself before your ego gets any bigger (if that's possible). Do you think perhaps those around you might be a bit tired of your self righteousness?

Who cares, if they don't like it they can just walk away. I have no reason to stop feeling good for others just because they feel bad, when they can just walk away from me and make themselves happy.

quote]Originally posted by Bkrmn
reply to post by arpgme

My first thoughts after reading your reply were that you were much like a child and simply had a lot to learn, but a child realizes this, whereas you don't!


Because this is natural, it is only later that we are programmed with such beliefs...

Again, if you don't like me for whatever reason, you can just walk away and talk to someone else who you do like... but I'll talk to everyone because practice unconditional happiness so no one can affect my mood now.

I just don't see any reason for me to be enslaved serving others. If everyone would just focus on their own individual happiness then they wouldn't need anyone to do stuff for them, and if they did, they would get people who sincerely wants to help with all their heart instead of someone who feels obligated.

Originally posted by ErroneousDylan
reply to post by ottobot

 

I believe many people are arguing because they are confusing the fact that the OP is stating that you can gain the perception, perspective, and reality OF Heaven, here on Earth. While others think he means that this IS Heaven in a sense of say... The Bible. Of course, everything is ultimately one so there is really no need in distinguishing the two.

This is not true. I asked way back in the thread and got that sorted out. What people are arguing is the OP's insistance on using the word heaven and saying this place is like it because it is perfect.

I stated in my first post on this thread that the mistake was in using a word that is well defined and applying it to something that doesn't fit that definition.

The OP insists on using heaven because, according to him, heaven has everything. That is ignorance. Heaven isn't described as having everything. Heaven is supposed to be a place free of suffering. There is suffering here therefore this is not heaven. It's very simple but the OP's just can't see it or he thinks it means being negative. From some of his answers it seems as if, to him, admitting he is wrong would mean having to leave heaven. Rather childish if you ask me.

When presented with facts like the above he starts using psychobabble because of course that is all he has left.

reply to post by daskakik


But that is not the way I hear heaven used. I hear heaven as defined as "the perfect place" and this IS the perfect place.

reply to post by arpgme


But what makes it perfect from the human point of view is that it is free from suffering not that it has everything.

Rev 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

This is a quote from the bible of what the final heaven and earth will be like after the judgement. It isn't the only belief but it is the one with the majority of followers, especially in the west, so it would be what most would use as reference.

This is not heaven , heaven is two stage about us, Earth is listed at number 8 planet, than its a planet of ghost and spirits, than its a planet known as heaven, but heaven is not the last step, there are 12 other higher planets.

reply to post by arpgme


No, sadly we are not in Heaven. But, that doesn't mean we cannot be happy. Even the bible tells us that there are different seasons of happiness and sorrow. Life on earth is a gift and should be celebrated as such. And the times that we have that are hard and sorrowful are times for grieving and sadness. In which time will heal and joy will come again. Living is feeling all emotions. In Heaven: is where there will be complete joy, healing, understanding and much celebrating with a King that is Most Worthy..

Sorry man but Im gonna have to disagree. We are in hell. Or at least halfway between Hell and Heaven leaning off the cliff at the tipping point towards Hell forever. There are many great things but so so many bad things going on; stuff you and I will never know.

if you see heaven or hell as places in your mind , you can visit both .
if you see heaven or hell as places in our 3d world , well then our current world is more on the "hell" side , but that also depends on your surroundings .

Originally posted by daskakik

Originally posted by ErroneousDylan
reply to post by ottobot

 

I believe many people are arguing because they are confusing the fact that the OP is stating that you can gain the perception, perspective, and reality OF Heaven, here on Earth. While others think he means that this IS Heaven in a sense of say... The Bible. Of course, everything is ultimately one so there is really no need in distinguishing the two.

This is not true. I asked way back in the thread and got that sorted out. What people are arguing is the OP's insistance on using the word heaven and saying this place is like it because it is perfect.

I stated in my first post on this thread that the mistake was in using a word that is well defined and applying it to something that doesn't fit that definition.

The OP insists on using heaven because, according to him, heaven has everything. That is ignorance. Heaven isn't described as having everything. Heaven is supposed to be a place free of suffering. There is suffering here therefore this is not heaven. It's very simple but the OP's just can't see it or he thinks it means being negative. From some of his answers it seems as if, to him, admitting he is wrong would mean having to leave heaven. Rather childish if you ask me.

When presented with facts like the above he starts using psychobabble because of course that is all he has left.

I suppose you are only using the definition of "Heaven" in relation to The Bible? I don't look at this subject from a mere Christian perspective, even if they were the first to use the word "Heaven". I see Heaven as being perfection (not in terms of society), being with God (The Universe), truly smothered in unconditional, universal love, the essence of God. Therefore, since I see Heaven = God, since God IS everything and created everything, that everything exists simultaneously. Heaven can be found any where in life, especially in your mind. It is not limited to a certain place, such as the after-life of Death. Heaven exists, therefore we can reach it anywhere, even on this planet. Suffering is not an object that you receive, it is something created within, just like happiness.

You create your own storms and then cry when it rains.

Originally posted by ErroneousDylan
I suppose you are only using the definition of "Heaven" in relation to The Bible? I don't look at this subject from a mere Christian perspective, even if they were the first to use the word "Heaven".

Not really but I am pointing out that religious people make up 84% of the world's population and even though they have different details to what their heaven is most, if not all, include an absence of pain, violence and suffering which is why they disagree with the OP.

I can't speak for the OP but I think that your definition doesn't really fit with the OP's either. That is the problem when people use words and make up their own definition for them. Probably would have been better to coin a new term instead of trying to shoehorn it into an already defined and widespread concept.

reply to post by arpgme

And empathy is also useless, is someone puts their hand in fire, why would you put your hand in too?
It would make more sense to keep your hand OUT and tell them to take theirs out too..
I don't have empathy for anyone, anyone who is said, I cheer them up with happiness and tell them just to be happy, I see absolutely no purpose in feeling unhappy just because someone else is.

You may want to look up what empathy is.

em·pa·thy noun ˈem-pə-thē Definition of EMPATHY
1 : the imaginative projection of a subjective state into an object so that the object appears to be infused with it 2 : the action of understanding, being aware of, being sensitive to, and vicariously experiencing the feelings, thoughts, and experience of another of either the past or present without having the feelings, thoughts, and experience fully communicated in an objectively explicit manner; also : the capacity for this

www.merriam-webster.com...
Your ridiculous example of putting your hand in fire shows your ignorance or intentional "misunderstanding" of the word.

Then you keep creating a straw man argument around that.

Complete fallacy of logic in your argument. Whether it is intentional or by ignorance, I don't know. Either way it is a FAIL.

Or perhaps you hoped nobody would call you out on this poor excuse/reason . You have used that "hand in the fire" response repeatedly, so it may be that you are just talking about things you don't really understand.

This was evident when you kept talking about hedonism as though it only meant "happiness is a virtue" and didn't acknowledge the crux of it -- personal pursuit of pleasure (sensory).

Perhaps you just don't want to admit that it doesn't give you pleasure to relate to others. So you act like empathy "means" actually experiencing the same situation as another, giving your "put my hand in fire" argument.
Instead of simply understanding one's feelings/situation. You act as though to have empathy for a victim of starvation or abuse, YOU would have to suffer starvation or abuse.

This is not the case and shows either your deliberate twisting of the meaning to your own ends, or ignorance.