Scientific Evidence of Survival of Consciousness After Death

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posted on Dec, 8 2011 @ 08:23 AM
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reply to post by jaijlee
 



7 mins and nothing, suffocation here. But everyone's experience is different I guess.




posted on Dec, 8 2011 @ 08:33 AM
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Originally posted by arpgme
A couple of things to keep in mind is this....

Anyone who has gone to hell, no matter what their religion is, they said that they didn't see a devil...

Some Christians who don't even believe in Reincarnation said that they were told of it on the other side....

Even religious people who like to judge and doesn't believe in the "unconditional love" God concept, still meets a God of unconditional love...

If these are just hallucinations then they should be hallucinations reflecting the person's belief system....

In fact, because of the Near Death Experiences, sometimes belief systems are CHANGED.



One would think we project our beliefs and expectations into these experiences, and only see what we expect to see. But that has been far from reality. Case after case regardless of race, age, or if they were christian / atheist experienced the same thing. A light a feeling of love meeting family members long deceased. Something that cannot be explained by a hallucinogenic experience which would be chaotic and random across a group of people.



posted on Dec, 8 2011 @ 09:04 AM
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It doesn't matter how much evidence you present to die hard skeptics on this issue, they will disregard the information that does not support their viewpoint. Ironic really as it is the absolute antithesis of the scientific approach.



posted on Dec, 8 2011 @ 09:17 AM
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reply to post by TupacShakur
 


Dimethyltryptamine is a very interesting compound, but it is not able to do some of the things people who have had NDE's have done. For instance, '___' will not necessarily allow a blind person to see things in the room.

Yes among '___' storys people report of seeing other worldly beings, but doesn't that give credence more to the idea that '___' activates the "supreme consciousness" (or whatever), rather than attribute that you "just trip balls on '___', then die"? Yes technically your '___' has released, but in all factuality we do not know why '___' exists in the first place. Remember, it isnt just humans who have '___'; Every living thing on Earth has it.



posted on Dec, 8 2011 @ 09:21 AM
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Originally posted by Samuelis

Originally posted by TupacShakur
reply to post by angellicview
 


How can you disagree with that? It's a hallucinogen, meaning that it would produce hallucinations, meaning that if people would end up not dying, they would report having visions or whatever. That explains it pretty accurately.


What's to disagree with? Such a weak arguement.

A chemical reaction in the brain in no way explains or debunks NDE's. Everything is a chemical reaction. How do countless people experience the same "experience"? Wouldn't a hallucination be more random and disorderly?
edit on 7-12-2011 by Samuelis because: spelling


OK, but you do realise that after the film communion came out nearly every ET description made them look the same, so no wonder that people 'see the same thing'.

Mice when they think they are about to die their bodies release endorphins and they go still with the drug overload.

Scientifically as a previous poster said means that the exact same result time after time



posted on Dec, 8 2011 @ 09:29 AM
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“'___' is responsible for NDE’s”.

Ok maybe it enables them but it doesn’t just end there. I mean our eyes are responsible for what we see but is that to say it’s not real. So many questions follow this statement that it cannot be used as an end to the debate at all like some people are suggesting.

Also this kind of statement reminds me of how Big Pharma brushes off cases of the placebo effect in drug trails as if it’s nothing to be concerned about. Instead of saying “we had a 70% success rate in the drug trail and the remaining 30% was down to the Placebo effect.” Shouldn’t they be saying, “Hold up. You mean to say we have documented evidence of the human mind being able to cure itself of disease through the power of thought alone?” Shouldn’t we be looking into that mechanism of the placebo effect and the NDE’s to work out what is exactly happening here?

Unfortunately in a world where money rules, NDE’s and the Placebo effect will never be looked into and just brused off as a quirk. God forbid people work out how to cure themselves without buying “cures” from pharmaceutical companies. “I know lets out law alternative medicine so people always have to buy our pills.” I digress.

I personally believe '___' and other hallucinogenics enable us to have these visions but the visions are very real and not just a happy slide show to give us while we die. Why does mother nature care that we get a nice ride at the moment of death? I mean what evolutionary benefit would that have?



posted on Dec, 8 2011 @ 09:29 AM
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i think spirituality in general and all of it's sub branches will become a subject of interest for scientists eventually and we can finally take god out of the picture and have more logically accepted views on how prayer works, NDE's, etc. etc.



posted on Dec, 8 2011 @ 09:59 AM
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Originally posted by TupacShakur
reply to post by angellicview
 


How can you disagree with that? It's a hallucinogen, meaning that it would produce hallucinations, meaning that if people would end up not dying, they would report having visions or whatever. That explains it pretty accurately.


LOL your description is an oxymoron. First you say the person is dead, nothing is happening in the body at all, but then magically your hallucinating while your body is doing nothing? Wow you blow my mind with such logic.

Face it, the reports are quite staggering, although unprovable, the fact so many witness this is almost proof in itself.



posted on Dec, 8 2011 @ 10:02 AM
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Originally posted by TsukiLunar
reply to post by angellicview
 


Your misusing the word "scientific". If NDE's were scientific you could repeatably test them. They are nothing more than personal experiences that science can not verify.

Following your logic, a man could claim to talk to Zeus and this would be scientific evidence of the Greeks gods.



To repeatedly test them, would require that the scientific community to be able to kill somebody to bring them back. Which of course is highly illegal and unethical to do. So that's why there won't be any real evidence anytime soon.

I've always said, the only way to prove things of this nature are to experience them personally. Until science can build instruments that are capable of recording things like this, there will only be personal evidence to go by.



posted on Dec, 8 2011 @ 10:02 AM
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reply to post by TupacShakur
 


There is NO evidence that '___' is released in the brain during death OR dreaming. It is a myth, for some reason people think it is science.

Google it
edit on 12/8/2011 by mnmcandiez because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 8 2011 @ 10:06 AM
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reply to post by angellicview
 


Yeah, look at it like an adult does and disregard science and fact and embrace the angels!



posted on Dec, 8 2011 @ 10:17 AM
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reply to post by angellicview
 


It's a possibility. Through God all things are possible.

John 21: 18-22) 18 I tell you the truth, when you were younger you dressed yourself and went where you wanted; but when you are old you will stretch out your hands, and someone else will dress you and lead you where you do not want to go." 19 Jesus said this to indicate the kind of death by which Peter would glorify God. Then he said to him, "Follow me!" 20 Peter turned and saw that the disciple whom Jesus loved was following them. (This was the one who had leaned back against Jesus at the supper and had said, "Lord, who is going to betray you?") 21 When Peter saw him, he asked, "Lord, what about him?" 22 Jesus answered, "If I want him to remain alive until I return, what is that to you? You must follow me."

Jesus holds the keys of death and hell, no one dies without his permission and no one goes to hell without his permission.

This passage of John makes me wonder if Jesus had already returned, because he said that John wouldnt taste death until he saw the kingdom of heaven coming on the clouds. So either Jesus already returned or John is still alive walking this world.



posted on Dec, 8 2011 @ 10:40 AM
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You can't call it scientific evidence.

But I totally believe that some people believe they have had the experience. Just like a lot of people experience seeing UFO's or being abducted.

Regardless of how it happens, why it happens or if it's even real... I hope those who have NDE's realize they've been given a second chance to make a difference.

Stop looking outside of yourself for all the answers.



posted on Dec, 8 2011 @ 10:41 AM
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reply to post by TsukiLunar
 


You can repeatedly test them and the only reason as to why they are not is because it requires someone to die first.

But there are cases in which NDEs have been induced as a result of surgical procedures.

The evidence that something beyond hallucinations is occurring and that the individual was actually outside of their body is that the patient can recall the steps of the surgical procedure performed on them.

THis has occurred on several occasions....but once again, inducing death prior to a surgical procedure is obviously of a controversial nature.

There is a cardiologist Dr. Michael Shom, who has actually written a book on this new procedure and the NDE experienced by one of his patients.

The fact that the patient could recall details pertaining to the surgical procedure in which she underwent all while clinically dead is considered impossible but it did occur and only points to evidence that the consciousness can exist outside of the physical body.




Dr. Michael Sabom, is a cardiologist whose latest book, Light and Death, includes a detailed medical and scientific analysis of an amazing near-death experience of a woman named Pam Reynolds. She underwent a rare operation to remove a giant basilar artery aneurysm in her brain that threatened her life. The size and location of the aneurysm, however, precluded its safe removal using the standard neuro-surgical techniques. She was referred to a doctor who had pioneered a daring surgical procedure known as hypothermic cardiac arrest. It allowed Pam's aneurysm to be excised with a reasonable chance of success. This operation, nicknamed "standstill" by the doctors who perform it, required that Pam's body temperature be lowered to 60 degrees, her heartbeat and breathing stopped, her brain waves flattened, and the blood drained from her head. In everyday terms, she was put to death. After removing the aneurysm, she was restored to life. During the time that Pam was in standstill, she experienced a NDE. Her remarkably detailed veridical out-of-body observations during her surgery were later verified to be very accurate. This case is considered to be one of the strongest cases of veridical evidence in NDE research because of her ability to describe the unique surgical instruments and procedures used and her ability to describe in detail these events while she was clinically and brain dead.

When all of Pam's vital signs were stopped, the doctor turned on a surgical saw and began to cut through Pam's skull. While this was going on, Pam reported that she felt herself "pop" outside her body and hover above the operating table. Then she watched the doctors working on her lifeless body for awhile. From her out-of-body position, she observed the doctor sawing into her skull with what looked to her like an electric toothbrush. Pam heard and reported later what the nurses in the operating room had said and exactly what was happening during the operation. At this time, every monitor attached to Pam's body registered "no life" whatsoever. At some point, Pam's consciousness floated out of the operating room and traveled down a tunnel which had a light at the end of it where her deceased relatives and friends were waiting including her long-dead grandmother. Pam's NDE ended when her deceased uncle led her back to her body for her to reentered it. Pam compared the feeling of reentering her dead body to "plunging into a pool of ice." The following is Pam Reynolds' account of her NDE in her own words.


www.near-death.com...



posted on Dec, 8 2011 @ 10:51 AM
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NDE's While patients are brain dead.

Well quite clearly Pam was not brain dead DUH! Just because medical science states xyz does not mean they are correct. As far as brain activity and consciousness is concerned they are still learning.

People born blind can see during an NDE

Blind people can see whilst dreaming and deaf people can hear whilst dreaming. This again is due to how our the brain functions. These are recent discoveries still being researched.

Scientific discoveries are brought back

Well DUH it's called creativity? Do you know that peoples creativity is most productive when we dont think about the very subject we are creative about. Hence Eureka whilst having a bath!

Quantum physics

Nice try, lets stir in multi universes, string theory, supersymmetry etc as proof of life after death....what is more likely (ie currently being researched) is that our brains work at the quantum level sometimes which is why unforeseen things happen. Like creativity!

NDE's have often produced visions of the future which later prove to be true. There is a very extensive and very interesting page on this

This is as concrete as all other soothsaying..........done to death on ATS.

Sharing NDE's

Well what a surprise. With all the talk of what happens during an NDE everybody has the same experience of NDE. Where's the mystery in that whilst folks are unconscious? It's called dreaming and remembering the dream or "unconscious" equivelent. Some of my most vivid dreams I can still remember. Sometimes I have to remind myself they are memories of dreams (when involving "ordinary" events) and not reality although the flying memories are obviously dreams. The difference between floating above my body and a flying dream is what exactly?........Answer - Zero!

All of the above has been well researched across cultures (a bit of a giveaway there) so why the need to believe in an afterlife?



posted on Dec, 8 2011 @ 10:58 AM
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reply to post by TupacShakur
 


A chemical hallucinogen introduced into the brain requires a functioning brain in which to process it.

During the shutdown of the Brain this might come into play while the last bits of oxygen necessary for the Brain cells to function are still processing but once the Brain and Heart and the resulting oxygen to the brain stops so does any and all brain function.

And hence the clinical definition of Death, which is the lack or existence of any brain waves or activity.

These NDE's extend way beyond the existence of the remaining oxygen in the brain and in some cases have been documented to have lasted up to several hours in which the individual was clinically dead.

No oxygen or brain activity means no intercellular transfer of any chemicals amongst the brain cells which is the foundation for Brain function and/or Brain activity.

They are clinically Brain Dead and due to their ability to process thought it exemplifies the evidence of the existence of the functioning consciousness after Death.


Peace



posted on Dec, 8 2011 @ 11:47 AM
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reply to post by angellicview
 


so, where's the "scientific evidence" that is in the title?
this is a (nice) list of anecdotes. anecdotes are not "scientific evidence".

please note i don't take a position whether consciousness survives human death or not.



posted on Dec, 8 2011 @ 11:52 AM
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So '___' is a very predictable drug then.
Dare I say the only drug that brings the exact same results every time ?
You float over your body,seeing the people that actually are working on your lifeless body
A giant bright light takes all your fears away about the situation and you are in a state of Euphoria?
Countless and I mean Countless NDE's follow this protocol. That's the immortal
Soul leaving the body. Not some random hallucination from '___'.
Or '___' is the most predictable hallucianagenic drug on the planet.



posted on Dec, 8 2011 @ 11:57 AM
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I was glad to get up this morning and see that there is a great discussion going on here.

On the Near Death Experience Research Foundation website, as I stated earlier, there are thousands of detailed cases on which they are currently studying. I have read each and every case. It is a rather mind-blowing subject. In almost every case, the person's life was changed forever after their NDE. The religious became spiritual. The athiests became spiritual. They changed professions. They changed their lifestyle. Sometimes even changed their life partner. Only a small handfull out of those thousands didn't feel as though it completely changed their life and their view on life and death. I am convinced they are real and I think we have a lot to learn from them.

Thank you for all the replies.



posted on Dec, 8 2011 @ 12:09 PM
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reply to post by TupacShakur
 


That is a myth. There is no scientific data to prove massive '___' release during death





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