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The Truth About Jihad - It Is Not Killing Inocent People

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posted on Dec, 7 2011 @ 02:28 AM
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This video clears up misconception's about Islam espoused by BOTH Muslim extremists and people either against Islam or who are uninformed.

It explains a common qu'aran quote about killing non-believers and how that is often taken out of context.

Main points:

-Jihad never means to kill innocent people.

-Being the aggressor is NOT Islam, this is a key point put things into perspective. It is only Jihad to fight back against those who fight you.


edit on 7-12-2011 by CREAM because: (no reason given)

edit on 7-12-2011 by CREAM because: (no reason given)




posted on Dec, 7 2011 @ 02:33 AM
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Thank you for posting this.

S&F to you.



posted on Dec, 7 2011 @ 02:38 AM
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Yeah more people need to read the Qur'an to get an understanding of what the hell is going on with those guys.



posted on Dec, 7 2011 @ 02:46 AM
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Its all well and good saying "don't hate Islam, they are just misinformed about their own religion".

But there are still plenty of them being taught, and happily believing its acceptable to kill innocents.

And when you look at this story www.dailymail.co.uk...

You can see, its not just religion, its jealousy and hate for us.

Don't get me wrong, I want the hell out of Afghan and Iraq, and Libya, and Yemen, Syria, Iran and wherever the F*** else these war mongers are trying to send us.



posted on Dec, 7 2011 @ 03:22 AM
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Originally posted by Soapusmaximus
Its all well and good saying "don't hate Islam, they are just misinformed about their own religion".

But there are still plenty of them being taught, and happily believing its acceptable to kill innocents.

And when you look at this story www.dailymail.co.uk...

You can see, its not just religion, its jealousy and hate for us.

Don't get me wrong, I want the hell out of Afghan and Iraq, and Libya, and Yemen, Syria, Iran and wherever the F*** else these war mongers are trying to send us.


If you look at some of the countries in the middle east, countries like Somalia. Children have been raised from birth surrounded by war. For many of them their lives are war and it's all they know.

Seeing as how you read the Daily Mail I can assume you've already made up your mind due to immigration. I think that's a shame but oh well.

You use the terms jealousy and hate. There are very few Muslims that envy the western way of life, that in itself is a sin. Also Whether or not they hate you is irrelevant, perhaps you should look at British History in Islamic countries...Did you know for example that Britain has been to war three times with Afghanistan? This doesn't even include the current war.

Iran would be another good example. Perhaps if Western countries didn't force themselves, their ideology on these countries they wouldn't have to react with what resources they have available, and you wouldn't have a negative opinion about muslims.

Defending yourselves from aggression is not war mongering, it's life.

EDIT:

Afghan and Iraq, and Libya, and Yemen, Syria, Iran


You're even aware of how many countries being invaded (And this is just the present day, this has been going on since before the great game)? Do you expect them to just roll over and say "sure take away our sovereignty".


edit on 7-12-2011 by Babbleman because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 7 2011 @ 03:40 AM
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I agree that having a blanket hatred of Muslims is a bad thing. On the other hand, the more extreme forms of the religion don't seem to recognize the innocence of people outside their own religion.

I'm also skeptical when the stories that I hear about how they treat their women makes Christianity, even during the Dark Ages, look like a hippie free-love bra-burning fest.

A moderate Muslim is at about the same place as a conservative Christian, and conservative Christians can be very scary people sometimes.

I don't advocate hate, but you've got to understand, my experience with very conservative, traditional people is that they tend to very easily descend into crazy town, and that makes me a bit twitchy.



posted on Dec, 7 2011 @ 03:46 AM
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Originally posted by CREAM
This video clears up misconception's...



Yeah, this is the usual excuse given when people of any religion do evil things in the name of that religion.

"They're not *real* Christians/Muslims..etc.., they're just mistaken."



posted on Dec, 7 2011 @ 04:24 AM
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How about people stop reading 1400 - 4000 year old books written to try and explain the (at the time) unexplainable events and to stop taking them as direct instruction manuals. They were then and still are now used to control man(those that let them anyway) All the books speak as though god is vengeful if you dont do as he asks (sic) written by man not god for control, not a very loving god eh.



posted on Dec, 7 2011 @ 04:53 AM
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Qur'an:9:5 "Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war."

Qur'an:9:29 "Fight those who do not believe until they all surrender, paying the protective tax in submission."

Qur'an:8:39 "Fight them until all opposition ends and all submit to Allah."

Ishaq:324 "He said, 'Fight them so that there is no more rebellion, and religion, all of it, is for Allah only. Allah must have no rivals.'"

Ishaq:587 "Our onslaught will not be a weak faltering affair. We shall fight as long as we live. We will fight until you turn to Islam, humbly seeking refuge. We will fight not caring whom we meet. We will fight whether we destroy ancient holdings or newly gotten gains. We have mutilated every opponent. We have driven them violently before us at the command of Allah and Islam. We will fight until our religion is established. And we will plunder them, for they must suffer disgrace."

And so on and on...

The truth about "peaceful" religions like Islam... :bnghd: ...is not so subtle or hidden. Not even open for double interpretations, like in the bible. Very clear explained, as you can see.

Funny how we look at the same thing and see different shapes.

edit on 7-12-2011 by WhiteHat because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 7 2011 @ 04:56 AM
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Originally posted by alfa1

Originally posted by CREAM
This video clears up misconception's...



Yeah, this is the usual excuse given when people of any religion do evil things in the name of that religion.

"They're not *real* Christians/Muslims..etc.., they're just mistaken."

"they're just mistaken" Wait, so they're not mistaken? You'd prefer people to use a more violent interpretation rather than promoting a more peaceful one, like I am doing? Please explain why'd you promote that, beside just your general bias against religion, because I can't logically find an explanation.

It's not an "excuse", it is just true people use religion to justify ego/monetary/political motivations. That's just the fact of the matter.

The other fact of the matter, people that actually believe in God, and also are not bigots, tend to promote things like hmmm.. not killing civilians and peace...

Also it is not an "excuse" to prove certain quotes are taken out of context, please actually watch the video I posted.


Originally posted by AnIntellectualRedneck
I'm also skeptical when the stories that I hear about how they treat their women makes Christianity, even during the Dark Ages, look like a hippie free-love bra-burning fest.


That is just a gross generalization and exaggeration. You here about the most extreme stories on the news.

Should I assume all Christian's rape boys because some priests did it, and priests are suppose to represent the religion? Of course not, that would be ignorant, so I don't get why people do that with Muslim's, besides bigotry.

I was in Morocco, which is a Muslim country, for a month, and women were treated very well. At least there, the full head covering thing with just a slit to see out of was NOT common at all, 99.5% of the women I saw either wore a head scarf or nothing on their heads. It was a very civilized place. So watch how you use the term "they" because you make it sound like all Muslim's are like what you are portraying, which is, by definition of generalizing and slandering, bigotry and hate speech.

Also please note... have you ever been to a third world country? No? Well I have been to some, and third world countries are like going back in time. In many places around the world there a low literacy rates, places without electricity, etc. Expecting these people to operate the same way as in the US does, and follow our same standards, is pure ignorance. Woman's rights did not happen over night in the US. There was a woman's rights movement in Morocco for example, and still is one, they have made are still making progress there even though it's already not too bad. Until you've been too 3rd world countries, you really shouldn't make assumptions about them, or about cultures you haven't immersed yourself in.


Originally posted by Soapusmaximus
Its all well and good saying "don't hate Islam, they are just misinformed about their own religion".


To think that most Muslims hold the extremest "kill all the infidels!" view point is incredibly ignorant. That is not the predominant interpretation Muslims around the world hold. Certain groups, should not be used to generalize the vast majority. That is just common sense.


Originally posted by FFS4000
All the books speak as though god is vengeful


If you would have watched the video, you would see that the point was to discourage vengeance. It's about self defense and not fighting out of vengeance.

Also, most of the New Testament in the bible does not talk about the vengeful God talked about in the Old Testament. Jesus for example, he was pretty chill.

Oh, btw(not to you FFS, but in general), Jesus is a recognized prophet in Islam and they also believe he did miracles through God's power.

Anyway, I am not really a Christian or Muslim, I have my own spiritual beliefs and only believe stuff from religious texts that I believe to be true for my own reasons. But I support other people's ways of of looking at things as their rights as humans, especially when their beliefs promote justice.



posted on Dec, 7 2011 @ 05:06 AM
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Originally posted by WhiteHat
The truth about "peaceful" religions like Islam... :bnghd: ...is not so subtle or hidden. Not even meant for double meanings, like in the bible. Very clear explained, as you can see.

Funny how we look at the same thing and see different shapes.

edit on 7-12-2011 by WhiteHat because: (no reason given)


If you watched the video and maybe talked to some Muslims you understand how wrong you are and would better understand the context.

Now replace the words Lord and God with Allah, sounds a lot like what you are trying to attack.
12.10 And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die, because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the LORD thy God, who brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage.
17.2 If there be found among you, within any of thy gates which the LORD thy God giveth thee, man or woman who hath wrought wickedness in the sight of the LORD thy God in transgressing His covenant,
17.3 and hath gone and served other gods and worshiped them, either the sun or moon or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded,
17.4 and it be told thee, and thou hast heard of it and inquired diligently, and behold, it be true and the thing certain that such abomination is wrought in Israel,
17.5 then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman who has committed that wicked thing unto thy gates, even that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones till they die.
17.6 At the mouth of two witnesses or three witnesses shall he that is worthy of death be put to death, but at the mouth of one witness he shall not be put to death.

Just because this verse and many others in the bible suggest stoning to death, does not mean I will generalize Christians and ignore all the pro-peace versus.

If you can ignore these verses and recognize the good in the Bible, why can't you do the same for Islam.

You know Muslim's also believe in Jesus?

The following verse is not from the Bible, it is from the quran:

"Behold! the angels said, 'Oh Mary! God gives you glad tidings of a Word from Him. His name will be Christ Jesus, the son of Mary, held in honour in this world and the Hereafter, and in (the company of) those nearest to God. He shall speak to the people in childhood and in maturity. He shall be (in the company) of the righteous... And God will teach him the Book and Wisdom, the Law and the Gospel'" (3:45-48).

Talk about ignorance and double standards...



posted on Dec, 7 2011 @ 05:40 AM
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reply to post by CREAM
 


You said:




Main points: -Jihad never means to kill innocent people.
-Being the aggressor is NOT Islam, this is a key point put things into perspective. It is only Jihad to fight back against those who fight you.


I only showed you that they ARE the aggressor, they must be, as they are instructed in their own book. All their history is one big try of conquering and expanding. Take it or leave it, I couldn't care less.
I didn't intend to discuss all their spiritual values here, only your point of view.
I never said other religions are perfect; but it seems that somehow they found an equilibrium and a way to live next to each other. We separated the state from religion, so we can think by ourselves, and not blindly follow an old book.
But not Islam.
Islam is not the single problem in this world, but it is a big one. Denying that is hypocrisy.

And if there is no way to even consider other points of view or facts, for that matter, why bother to post it here? I see your point and agree with it; not every muslim is a fanatic terrorist. Jihad is not always meant to be "holy war".
But can you see mine?
That "jihad" IS used most of the time as an excuse for war?
That a religion which is based on conquering others is the opposite of pacifist? That this is, in the long run, a threat for any other nation out there?




If you can ignore these verses and recognize the good in the Bible, why can't you do the same for Islam.


Because I look at the way they live. Not only in Marrocco, but all around the world. Africa, for example. Middle East. I look at their history, the recent one and the old one. All the conflicts they generated in every country they stepped in.
I have muslim neighbours. I had friends married with muslim guys.
But I also have friends from Germany, France and England. They are telling me scary stories. I don't speak from the other side of the ocean, far away from reality.
I just try to see the big picture here.
edit on 7-12-2011 by WhiteHat because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 7 2011 @ 06:04 AM
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Originally posted by WhiteHat
I only showed you that they ARE the aggressor, they must be, as they are instructed in their own book. All their history is one big try of conquering and expanding. Take it or leave it, I couldn't care less.
I didn't intend to discuss all their spiritual values here, only your point of view.
I never said other religions are perfect; but it seems that somehow they found an equilibrium and a way to live next to each other. We separated the state from religion, so we can think by ourselves, and not blindly follow an old book.
But not Islam.
Islam is not the single problem in this world, but it is a big one. Denying that is hypocrisy.

And if there is no way to even consider other points of view or facts, for that matter, why bother to post it here? I see your point and agree with it; not every muslim is a fanatic terrorist. Jihad is not always meant to be "holy war".
But can you see mine?
That "jihad" is taken most of the time as an excuse for war?
That a religion which is based on conquering others is the opposite of pacifist? That this is, in the long run, a threat for any other nation out there?


edit on 7-12-2011 by WhiteHat because: (no reason given)


You won't listen, no use in arguing. I still don't think you watched the video to see what context I, and the majority of Muslim's view it to be.

If you think the religion itself is the problem, well, I think your silly.

Please point to me, in current times, where Jihad is the excuse for war.

In Iraq, Afghanistan, and Palestine, people are fighting an occupation, they are not making "excuses" for a war they did not sign up for


93% of people in Afghanistan, as of 2011, have not HEARD of the 9/11 terrorist attacks.

This whole modern holy war thing is a load of BULL. That was part of the fabricated non-sense that Bush and his Halliburton-Homie made up.

The US is pretty peaceful even though there are many Christian, the bible has some violent versus too.. BUT guess what Christianity was the problem in the first place, neither is the Muslim religion, tension in the middle east comes from underline and totally unrelated issues!!!

Implying Islam is something we need to get rid of sounds like something from Nazi play book.

You literally JUST said Islam is a PROBLEM. That is the same as saying JEWS are the the PROBLEM. But I wouldn't say that... because I am not a BIGOT.



posted on Dec, 7 2011 @ 06:35 AM
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reply to post by CREAM
 





You literally JUST said Islam is a PROBLEM.


Yes, I did. And I showed you why. Sorry if your political-correctness got hurt. When I'll think the jews are a problem, I'll say it too, and I'll explain why; but in the meantime let me do my own thinking about that. That's my opinion, and as I said, take it or leave it. But stop assuming that if I don't agree with something, I automatically call for it's extermination. Can you stop generalizing? Not liking apples is not the same as trying to destroy all the apples in the world.
Am I a BIGOT? For me an apple will always be an apple, and I won't start to call it orange just to please someone else. But of course, you have the right to think different.

Everybody has a problem with somebody, especially in these forums; with believers, with atheists, with politicians, with zionists, with God himself.... But muslims are the new holy cow, I think, god forbidden to say something about them, because we are about to attack in Iran....

Maybe I'm a bigot, dear, but I'm not hypocrite...

edit on 7-12-2011 by WhiteHat because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 7 2011 @ 06:35 AM
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reply to post by Babbleman
 


I am not a daily mail fan, I read all news sources, it was just that particular story that had me a big wound up, and I thought it relevant.

I am aware of the extent of past and current imperialism by England, and many other "allied" country's.

And I understand why they hold grievance with our government's, I do too, for all the suffering they have inflicted around the world.

But this is about targeting civilians, and the view its Ok.

I understand its mainly extremists that commit atrocities such as beheading contractors etc,

But the Muslim population at large support and hold sympathies for terrorists, in targeting innocents, if they happen to be non believers,

and there IS a hatred towards the white population at large, even though we hate our Governments as much as they do,

But we are just as powerless at this point to stop them running our futures into the ground.

I understand its mainly propaganda that feeds this Islamaphobia, but the hatred has been sparked, and there is no going back, from which I can see.



posted on Dec, 7 2011 @ 06:48 AM
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reply to post by CREAM
 





Please point to me, in current times, where Jihad is the excuse for war.


There you go, from different sources.
Not Middle East, of course.
That is the home of the Holy Cow.
I would watch the last one carefully. One day soon we will remember it.
But the question is, will you see it for what it is, or will you try to justify it?







There are much more, just google out a bit.

edit on 7-12-2011 by WhiteHat because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 7 2011 @ 07:14 AM
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Originally posted by CREAM
This video clears up misconception's about Islam espoused by BOTH Muslim extremists and people either against Islam or who are uninformed.

It explains a common qu'aran quote about killing non-believers and how that is often taken out of context.

Main points:

-Jihad never means to kill innocent people.

-Being the aggressor is NOT Islam, this is a key point put things into perspective. It is only Jihad to fight back against those who fight you.


edit on 7-12-2011 by CREAM because: (no reason given)

edit on 7-12-2011 by CREAM because: (no reason given)


Missconception will always around until people start to learn more with open mind and no prejudice.
I really respect what you did, not only in this thread. I see you as a warrior to spread peace.
I can only wish that we will keep learning and digging the truth, without loosing wisdom. I am a muslim myself. But i wont put cover on my eyes. There are some people and group that promoted hatred in muslim society. Twisting the words for their own agenda for the benefit of few leaders.

One day we will know who the bad guys and the good guys in every side. For now we just need to recognized people who do more constructive things to humanity to start the wave of global enlightment.
Thank you for this thread, and keep give people enlightment for all sides.

Peace



posted on Dec, 7 2011 @ 07:47 AM
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Whitehat - People like you saying the religion itself is the problem is what radicalizes Muslim's YOU are provoking them.

The fact is, it is not the religion. The same sort of thing you have a problem with in the Qu'ran, also exists in the texts of Christians and Jews.

Whats the issue? Why are Muslims pissed off?

Oh, maybe it has to do with the fact the US is occupying their countries and Israel is making threats left and right. The war for Oil and Opium being portrayed as war on terror(which has turned into a war on Islam) because the people in the target countries are fighting back against unjust occupation is the reason Mulslims are pissed. The world is making it look like it's their fault.

1,000,000 Iraqi citizens dead sir. Thats about 1 out of 25 in Iraq.

It wasn't "Iraqi freedom" it was more like "kill a family member and multiple friends of average person in Iraq, while halliburton get's exclusive contracts" Mission accomplished! - K, now imagine losing a family memeber... K, now image every school class you've ever had with 25 or more kids... K, imagine a kid from every class dead(factor in repeat kids to make the math work, still a lot of people).. Imagine an equal or greater number getting maimed or injured... Imagine if your relgion was being espoused as the reason your occupiers did this to your loved ones.

NO, REALLY REALLY REALLY imagine this is YOU.

k, now Imagine if one was your wife, your mom, your dad, your son, or daughter. Remember Iraq was not even vaguely related to 9/11....

If you can't understand this, I am done.

Please give me one more chance and fast forward to a minute into this song past the intro...



posted on Dec, 7 2011 @ 08:31 AM
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We all know how violent Islam is.

I mean, look at all the countries they're attacking!



posted on Dec, 7 2011 @ 08:33 AM
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I try very hard not to get into politics. I don't justify what America did or do in the muslim countries; this is not the point. Everyone have the right to their own religion in their own countries, no matter how dysfunctional it is. I would never go into my neighbour home to show him how to live his life.
I would, however, start to investigate his reasons if he would try to impose his religion on me. Eventually i would try to stop it.

I don't go around preaching against islam. Their religion is not my business.

But if they start bothering others I investigate their reasons. And I found that the religion is the problem, not the people themselves. I put quotes here for you to see also. I showed you reports from Europe, where no one attacked them. They still want to go on about conquering. If you or I would have grown by the same religion, would surely react the same. It's brain washing.
When someone says that islam is a peaceful religion, I show them the facts.
If you don't see a problem with that, it's fine with me.
If you don't think that people who can't adapt to other countries' lifestyle should stay home, that's fine also.
But if you start to justify things that in any other circumstances would be condemned, then I think I can express my opinion.

And my opinion is that, regardless of how we, the westerners, are provoking or not provoking them, the islam religion is NOT peaceful. And I would not recommended it as a humanitarian religion.



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