Originally posted by Sashromi
All in all, this thread is a pretty depressing read. The amount of ignorance and paranoia is just immense. How many replies by former service members saying 'No Way', versus all the fear-mongering by so many painting the US military as little more than brainless automatons willing to go unquestioningly into action against fellow Americans. Very sad indeed.

So to all you folks who keep arguing that the US military would go against the American public, I have only one question for you to ask yourselves 'Would I massacre Americans if so ordered'? Service members - by and large - are no different from yourselves. And despite the few examples of shameful conduct in Iraq and Afghanistan by Americans, for the most part, and considering what has happened, what is remarkable is the large-scale lack of barbarity. But that's what happens I guess when we have the war broadcast practically live into our living rooms on a continuous basis. War is the worst behavior of humanity, and to formulate one's judgment of the human race, or just American soldiers from the scenes of violence is a fearfully inadequate means of assessing all the facts.

This is not Nazi-Germany, we have no Hitler, Gestappo, or National Creed of ethnic and cultural superiority. Stop fearing your brothers and sisters, open your hearts to peace and trust, and maybe the world won't turn out to be as bad as you fear.

Dude, Get over your doomed infatuation with the Nazi's. Doolittling on your couch and thinking about how big your biceps were when you were enlisted, instead do some investigation on who is running things. Such as "Shameful conduct" in Iraq and Afghanistan. And distinguish good people apart instead of putting us in enclosures like we are a different paranoid species of ape, third world screwed up plutocracy of end-times dictatorship.. I would like to see a better world, wouldn't you? And existence (and this death cult to go away).

**"Golem" Soros, money handed to him, by London.. A Golem doesn't make himself, he is created and, true to form, their instinct is only to do what he is told in order to survive. That is the way animals do it, the Nazi's as you say, and Gestapo, people who are raised to behave like beasts. Their natural mode of self-preservation is to blend with the scenery and simply disappear. As long as you are in America it will be a losing battle.***

we allow troops from other countries to train in the states for specifically this reason.
look at all the news you hear about police brutality,the cops alone would be in.
our military is told to handle any defined by the government "enemy" from here or not.

simply put.
our own brothers are dumb enough to be tricked in to thinking that them harming us is actually helping us.

I think that those who are bent on making america over in their own image could care less about any turmoil or splits in America or it's military as long as the "chaos does it's job. (The revenge of King George)

Most Marines that I know won't put up with the crap from this government.

Perhaps a genuine coup is in order to restore constitutional republican government?
As long as they weren't running around shooting people indiscriminately, and work IMMEDIATELY to bring about new elections, and forbid all well known political names from participating, How could they from a prison cell once they deemed as domestic enemies and therefore political teerrorists? I could sign on.

22 years USMC

Other than that, it is the militia's job to arm and train itself with the goal in mind of defeating or fighting to a stand still a domestic standing army that has become the dupe and enforcement arm of any tyrant, as individual or group of people who usurp the authority.

The Federalist Papers.

READ THEM PLease!

and then... learn how to be effective with those weapons fromm 100 to 600 yards.

First of all, what makes you think this is going to happen soon.?
Do you realize what kind of a state the country would have to be in to even consider this.?
We have had Political Convention protests that turned into riots.
Sports so-called celebration rallys that turned into riots.
We just witnessed the Occupy protests where some turned into riots.
There are always radicals that can insight a peaceful protest.
Are you old enough to remember Kent State.?
The military was called in there. (National Guard).
Look what happened.
I am an old pre Viet Nam veteran, (USMC) and there are lots of ugly things that can happen when someone has a loaded weapon. (Police, Military, Civilian ???)
Part of a military swearing in declaration always contains protect from "both foreign and domestic."
At least it did in my day.

People change a lot when they have been in combat... They are the ones that I would think most likely to refuse to follow unlawful orders unless they have been endoctrinated in modern day Christianity as taught by the military... As a gung ho recruit in 1968 I didn't think but did what I was told to do and was asked about whether I and everyone else in my training platoon if we would follow orders and shoot citizens in Los Angeles if sent there the night of MLK's assassination.. We all said we would... That worried me a lot later on and when I was in a situation when I had to take lives it wasn't all that disturbing to me because it was a means of not allowing Marines to be killed as well as pay back for those that had been killed.... I am pretty sure those that have been involved in combat would have their heads on right but the ones that haven't would be a problem.... It was reservist at Kent State that shot civilians, not Marines or Regular Army.... Our fire control discipline was amazing when we had enemy targets but would give away our position by firing on them... I never heard anyone brag about a kill or fire on a non combatant during the 12 months I was attached to an infantry company... The drone thing I don't like at all. Pilots and artillery crews really liked a large body count but I'd like think it is because they knew it was less enemy to kill other Marines or soldiers that would be taken out by them doing their jobs.... It is not a pleasant thing when it is up close and you can see the results of you doing your job even if it is to save the lives of yourself and those around you.

Originally posted by hypervigilant
People change a lot when they have been in combat... They are the ones that I would think most likely to refuse to follow unlawful orders unless they have been endoctrinated in modern day Christianity as taught by the military... As a gung ho recruit in 1968 I didn't think but did what I was told to do and was asked about whether I and everyone else in my training platoon if we would follow orders and shoot citizens in Los Angeles if sent there the night of MLK's assassination.. We all said we would... That worried me a lot later on and when I was in a situation when I had to take lives it wasn't all that disturbing to me because it was a means of not allowing Marines to be killed as well as pay back for those that had been killed.... I am pretty sure those that have been involved in combat would have their heads on right but the ones that haven't would be a problem.... It was reservist at Kent State that shot civilians, not Marines or Regular Army.... Our fire control discipline was amazing when we had enemy targets but would give away our position by firing on them... I never heard anyone brag about a kill or fire on a non combatant during the 12 months I was attached to an infantry company... The drone thing I don't like at all. Pilots and artillery crews really liked a large body count but I'd like think it is because they knew it was less enemy to kill other Marines or soldiers that would be taken out by them doing their jobs.... It is not a pleasant thing when it is up close and you can see the results of you doing your job even if it is to save the lives of yourself and those around you.

Amen to that!

The worst part of all of this is that we need even think this way, and have this sort of discussion all because of the arbitrary actions of government brought on by those who have sway over it. I'm embarrassed by what I see.

I'd like to make three points. The first point is that the MSM will never report all of the good things that our service people do while overseas. I know of personal stories told to me by one of my relatives(a marine) who served 3 tours in Iraq. He told me of heartwarming stories of marines who helped Iraqi people get food, medical aid, and in several cases, help build shelters for civilians. Many times, his unit put themselves in front of civilians to protect them, when they were under fire.
I asked him if he would ever shoot at US civilians in the US, and his answer was "Only if they shot at me first". He said he would absolutely disobey any order to shoot Americans or ANY civilian, for any reason, unless other innocents would die as a result of what the citizens were doing.
The second point I wish to make is that the MSM loves to find the odd story where soldiers did do something horrific. The fact that there are so few of those stories tells me that they are extremely rare, but yes they do occur. Many of you know that an ATS member went off on a shooting spree a few years ago. Rare event, but it happens. I'm sure you can take any profession, gender, religion or nationality, and find examples. The vast majority are not like that, however.
Finally, it is wrong to blame the solders for policies that you oppose. That is what elections are for- if you don't like what is going on, vote those who initiated those policies out.
Unfortunately, in today's world of instant messaging, instant news, and instant food, people don't want to wait for change. They want it yesterday.
Let me give you a hint- the world doesn't work that way, and thank God it doesn't, because no one person has a monopoly on what is "right" or what is "wrong".

Originally posted by ProfEmeritus
I'd like to make three points. The first point is that the MSM will never report all of the good things that our service people do while overseas. I know of personal stories told to me by one of my relatives(a marine) who served 3 tours in Iraq. He told me of heartwarming stories of marines who helped Iraqi people get food, medical aid, and in several cases, help build shelters for civilians. Many times, his unit put themselves in front of civilians to protect them, when they were under fire.
I asked him if he would ever shoot at US civilians in the US, and his answer was "Only if they shot at me first". He said he would absolutely disobey any order to shoot Americans or ANY civilian, for any reason, unless other innocents would die as a result of what the citizens were doing.
The second point I wish to make is that the MSM loves to find the odd story where soldiers did do something horrific. The fact that there are so few of those stories tells me that they are extremely rare, but yes they do occur. Many of you know that an ATS member went off on a shooting spree a few years ago. Rare event, but it happens. I'm sure you can take any profession, gender, religion or nationality, and find examples. The vast majority are not like that, however.
Finally, it is wrong to blame the solders for policies that you oppose. That is what elections are for- if you don't like what is going on, vote those who initiated those policies out.
Unfortunately, in today's world of instant messaging, instant news, and instant food, people don't want to wait for change. They want it yesterday.
Let me give you a hint- the world doesn't work that way, and thank God it doesn't, because no one person has a monopoly on what is "right" or what is "wrong".

GOOD Points!

negative people have a tendency to focus on negative points no matter how anecdotal they may be in the main scheme of things, and falsly generalize over them.

The only issue I would take with your above is the idea that we can really vote these people out. I would like to believe it, but can no longer.

I would rather have a solid recall method to fire these people who vote for bills that are prima facie anti citizen and there fore anti american. JMHO

In order for them and their families to survive they will do exactly what they are ordered to do just like the romans, the nazis and all the other civilizations though out history ran by tyranny.

Everyone says, "I would never" but when faced with the reality...............99% would opt out to save their own skin vs die a hero.

Survival is a key human trait.

And history keeps repeating itself.

Originally posted by ProfEmeritus
I'd like to make three points. The first point is that the MSM will never report all of the good things that our service people do while overseas. I know of personal stories told to me by one of my relatives(a marine) who served 3 tours in Iraq. He told me of heartwarming stories of marines who helped Iraqi people get food, medical aid, and in several cases, help build shelters for civilians. Many times, his unit put themselves in front of civilians to protect them, when they were under fire.
I asked him if he would ever shoot at US civilians in the US, and his answer was "Only if they shot at me first". He said he would absolutely disobey any order to shoot Americans or ANY civilian, for any reason, unless other innocents would die as a result of what the citizens were doing.
The second point I wish to make is that the MSM loves to find the odd story where soldiers did do something horrific. The fact that there are so few of those stories tells me that they are extremely rare, but yes they do occur. Many of you know that an ATS member went off on a shooting spree a few years ago. Rare event, but it happens. I'm sure you can take any profession, gender, religion or nationality, and find examples. The vast majority are not like that, however.
Finally, it is wrong to blame the solders for policies that you oppose. That is what elections are for- if you don't like what is going on, vote those who initiated those policies out.
Unfortunately, in today's world of instant messaging, instant news, and instant food, people don't want to wait for change. They want it yesterday.
Let me give you a hint- the world doesn't work that way, and thank God it doesn't, because no one person has a monopoly on what is "right" or what is "wrong".

You make a good point but let me point something out. The soldiers will likely be deceived as everyone else will in the beginning. Led to believe their targets are terrorists. Second, they need only capture and maybe interrogate, but officers will be more likely to do interrogations as they will be more privy to whats going on, depending on their rank.
The soldiers don't need to shoot, just capture.

It is entirely subjective, and a great deal will depend on what is prompting the order to begin with. If the President just randomly decides that it is time to arrest people because he likes the idea it isn't likely to be followed. But if the situation required them to go into a full blown riot zone where they may be injured or even killed they are likely to go in and follow those orders. They aren't going to go in there and start rioting with the populous. A large mostly peaceful gathering committing acts of civil disobedience, it could go either way and a large part of that will depend on how threatening they see each other and how much the military's point of view coincides with the protestor's.

If your asking if it came to answering an armed rebellion, that is a different and complex monster all on it's own. But the odds are the rebellion will be put down by force and any questions asked later. It isn't a certainty and there are a wide range of variables that would have to go into that particular equation but as far as I can see it the most likely outcome. The military is quite capable of firing on Americans and has always been able to find soldiers that are more than willing to do so. From the whiskey rebellion to the bonus army and on to Kent State.

It is important to remember that the US Military is first and foremost made up of people, and people are capable of astounding heroism and despicable tyranny. As much as they and we would like to think otherwise, they are trained to kill, work together cohesively and protect one another, whether they chose to be there from a sense of duty or a means to acquire an education. In the middle of an uprising in progress unless they helped create and organize it, they are not going to ask whether you are right or wrong. The only thing that will matter is that they and their friends are in danger and they don't know you nor your intentions.