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Debunk This.

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posted on Dec, 4 2011 @ 04:29 PM
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Welcome to rational thought ladies and gentlemen of ATS...

I know it is against ATS protocol to shine light in the corners, but I feel compelled to try my hand at dispelling the ignorance that the propaganda of BOTH sides of the UFO/Alien question has submitted to the discussion.

First let me say that I am here to ruin the local skeptics and debunkers collective day.

Roswell, Exeter, Pheonix, Wsahington DC, Moscow, London, and your town too.

Literally every single place on the earth has many local stories associated with these phenomenon.

There are far too many witnesses, artifacts, proofs, stories, historical texts, anecdotes, photographs, videos, testimonies, radar signatures, pilot and military witnesses, physical evidences, ancient architectural anomalies, etcetera, for these ALL to be hoaxes.

To what end would such a vast and unneccesarily complex hoax be perpetrated? WHy would so many generations, whom could not agree on anything else, conspire to perpetuate this otherwise destructive and irrelevant game?

You may look at one particular incident and say, 'hoax' or 'swamp gas', but a cursory look at the bigger UFO/Alien picture paints a very telling story.

We are not alone.

We never have been.

Occam's razor states that the simplest answer is usually the correct one, and skeptics revel in using it as an argument against EBE and UFOs, yet, when all of these factors are taken into consideration, a very different paradigm emerges.

It is time to stop the denial and move on with the conversation. Agreed?



+26 more 
posted on Dec, 4 2011 @ 04:36 PM
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reply to post by jimnuggits
 


All this evidence merely proves the existence of a phenomena. It does not explain the what. So far every proposed hypothesis has fallen short of explaining every case. Despite being a skeptic, I am willing to admit to the existence of UFOs, but the field of Ufology has been a complete joke ever since it pretty much accepted the ET hypothesis without contest. Personally I find the ultraterrestrial/extradimensional hypothesis to be the best fit for the evidence, but once again there is no actual proof that such beings exist.



posted on Dec, 4 2011 @ 04:37 PM
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reply to post by jimnuggits
 





Roswell, Exeter, Pheonix, Wsahington DC, Moscow, London, and your town too. Literally every single place on the earth has many local stories associated with these phenomenon. There are far too many witnesses, artifacts, proofs, stories, historical texts, anecdotes, photographs, videos, testimonies, radar signatures, pilot and military witnesses, physical evidences, ancient architectural anomalies, etcetera, for these ALL to be hoaxes.



But unfortunately, no concrete, undeniable.......proof.



posted on Dec, 4 2011 @ 04:41 PM
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Originally posted by Xcalibur254
reply to post by jimnuggits
 


All this evidence merely proves the existence of a phenomena. It does not explain the what. So far every proposed hypothesis has fallen short of explaining every case. Despite being a skeptic, I am willing to admit to the existence of UFOs, but the field of Ufology has been a complete joke ever since it pretty much accepted the ET hypothesis without contest. Personally I find the ultraterrestrial/extradimensional hypothesis to be the best fit for the evidence, but once again there is no actual proof that such beings exist.


Are you 100% positive ?


When the experts do not acknowledge something , does it make it debunked ?
edit on 4-12-2011 by watchdog8110 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 4 2011 @ 04:42 PM
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You provide no evidence, no images, videos, or eye witness testimony..

debunked..?



posted on Dec, 4 2011 @ 04:43 PM
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Originally posted by jimnuggits

First let me say that I am here to ruin the local skeptics and debunkers collective day.




How could you possibly ruin a sceptics day? What have you got to offer that'd achieve your aim? There's nothing in your post that'd do so. The questions you're asking relate to what you see as a fact so therefore it's down to you to prove to us what you claim is real. My day is carrying on just fine, thanks.



posted on Dec, 4 2011 @ 04:43 PM
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reply to post by jimnuggits
 





To what end would such a vast and unneccesarily complex hoax be perpetrated?

Who said there was ?



You may look at one particular incident and say, 'hoax' or 'swamp gas',

Never said swamp gas , but if a particular incident is a hoax or misidentification then why not call it for what it is .



It is time to stop the denial and move on with the conversation. Agreed?

How does denial ( not that I deny ET existence ) stop the conversation , surely that's part of it .



We are not alone. We never have been.

And hopefully one day we'll get solid proof of it , but until then we KNOW nothing , we just have tiny parts of a much larger puzzle .
edit on 4-12-2011 by gortex because: edit to spelllllll



posted on Dec, 4 2011 @ 04:44 PM
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reply to post by Argyll
 


I would imagine that empirical evidence would be extremely easy to keep out of every other channel if an organization of unlimited resources and single minded focus were dedicated to that end.

Out of the billions of people on the planet, only a very small handful would even be able or willing to recognize the pattern, fewer still would attempt to record and broadcast it.

And even then, only a small portion would be ready, able and willing to hear the 'truth,' once broadcast.



posted on Dec, 4 2011 @ 04:49 PM
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Safety in numbers , no black sheep in the field are wanted . Feed them to the wolves who investigate the whole other beings out there theories . Sad days are here again



posted on Dec, 4 2011 @ 04:53 PM
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reply to post by Myendica
 


You may have missed my point.

Literally, there are photos, videos and corroborating evidence by the tonne on both the Interwebs and ATS itself.

I am not interested in rehashing each individual case, but discussing the mathematical improbability of every UFO and Alien encounter being a hoax or 'lantern.'

Trillions to One, by the way.

So, I disagree that their is no 'proof.' There are multiple proofs, yet some will not be sated with ANY proof at all.



posted on Dec, 4 2011 @ 05:01 PM
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Originally posted by Argyll
reply to post by jimnuggits
 





Roswell, Exeter, Pheonix, Wsahington DC, Moscow, London, and your town too. Literally every single place on the earth has many local stories associated with these phenomenon. There are far too many witnesses, artifacts, proofs, stories, historical texts, anecdotes, photographs, videos, testimonies, radar signatures, pilot and military witnesses, physical evidences, ancient architectural anomalies, etcetera, for these ALL to be hoaxes.



But unfortunately, no concrete, undeniable.......proof.


That's exactly what a skeptic would say. Let me remind you that eyewitness testimony is admissible in court as evidence. I have seen one, my family members have seen them. That is proof enough for us.




edit on 4-12-2011 by AwakeinNM because: butterfingers



posted on Dec, 4 2011 @ 05:04 PM
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Well someone's in the mood for a debate it seems

Cynics wouldn't know proof if it stared them in the face. So keep that in mind when you engage certain people over this topic.

Though, with all the photographic/video/eyewitness evidence, unfortunately it all does not equate to tangible proof that a scientist can put their hands on, or put under a microscope. Something that we can hold or closely analyze...

The closest thing to evidence of otherworldly existence that we might have is in the crops. Crop Circles, that is. Genuine crop circles are formed by energies partially unknown but that does not mean Aliens from other planets came down and whirled them into shape necessarily.

Finally, your title of thread certainly is an open door invitation - I entered expecting to see proof of something.
But yes, the odds of every sighting, photograph, and video being easily explained away as being of this world are pretty low.



posted on Dec, 4 2011 @ 05:13 PM
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reply to post by jimnuggits
 


im not claiming to know anything but i do feel like denial is one of the most predictable, and possibly one of the most frequent emotions for many. Denial helps aid in keeping us stuck in a friggin circle. Im not insinuating, by that, that all skeptics are just solely in denial to this "obvious truth" and that is the reason for their skepticism, I just think that more often than not people are overly skeptic and miss the point, just like people sometimes maybe go a little wild with theorizing things that they miss the point as well.

so i guess my point would be that, because of so much testimony and "supposed evidence", i think it would be more to our benifit as a peoples to review it without an overly skeptical bias(sort of obvious anyway IMO)

anyways good stuff



posted on Dec, 4 2011 @ 05:21 PM
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No solid evidence , just photos(and most of them are low quality and you can't see anything)
No videos of any UFO's or aliens apart from those low quality ones(videos are harder to edit and even the low quality ones are easily spotted as fake)

I am sure that the aliens found us and made contact with someone on Earth , but they are not stupid enough to just kidnapp random people and let themselves get caught and examined in Area 51 or any other laboratory .

This all alien thing can be true , but without solid proof , there is no reason to believe in such things .

Also , why they are kidnapping guys and letting them go ? It's just stupid .
edit on 4-12-2011 by OrNaM3nT because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 4 2011 @ 05:24 PM
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Evidence of aliens , define aliens .

Do they have to have all the same features that we have when we look in the mirror ?

If they do not , does it make them any more or less alien ?

Do they need to be enclosed in a ship as we call them to be more or less alien ?


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posted on Dec, 4 2011 @ 05:25 PM
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reply to post by jimnuggits
 


I would just like to state that your adversarial tone is all too familiar around here and it does more damage to your cause than anything else.

I am a skeptic. Proving to me that this stuff is real would not "ruin my day." Quite the opposite, it would be an amazing thing to find out. Being skeptical means wanting proof over blind faith, it is not about being opposed to you.



posted on Dec, 4 2011 @ 05:27 PM
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reply to post by AwakeinNM
 


Admissible in court and proof are two very different things.
Just saying.



posted on Dec, 4 2011 @ 05:30 PM
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Originally posted by Algernonsmouse
reply to post by AwakeinNM
 


Admissible in court and proof are two very different things.
Just saying.


The proof part being able to see it right in front of you ( on display ) , looking for clarification ?
edit on 4-12-2011 by watchdog8110 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 4 2011 @ 05:39 PM
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reply to post by AwakeinNM
 





That's exactly what a skeptic would say. Let me remind you that eyewitness testimony is admissible in court as evidence. I have seen one, my family members have seen them. That is proof enough for us.



But I'm not you though am I?

Eyewitness testimony may well be admissible in court, but whilst someone may testify in court that they saw "something" and that the same court may well agree that they saw "something"......it doesn't prove that they saw aliens....... to my knowledge "proof of aliens" hasn't had a trial date fixed yet.



posted on Dec, 4 2011 @ 05:41 PM
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reply to post by Algernonsmouse
 


Tone is not something that the written word can convey, although I understand your meaning.

I am being intentionally adverserial in an effort to show the frustration I feel when skeptics demand proof and look for none.

There is proof running out our collective ears, yet still the demand is made.

Forgive me, but the numbers of stories, physical implants, eye witness testimony and mysterious artifacts are proof in and of themselves.




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