Originally posted by jimnuggits
There are far too many witnesses, anecdotes,

Eyewitness accounts may work in a court of law, but when it comes to science, they're the lowest form of evidence. I can claim to see a spaceship, but that does not make it so. Many people do not even have a basic understanding of astronomy, weather or present technology - how can they confidently claim what they saw was ET?

Remember, it was only a month back that a guy reported a distress flare, and it turned out to be Jupiter. Or this past October, when another man mistook the moon for a UFO. :|

Originally posted by jimnuggits
artifacts, physical evidences, proofs

What artifacts have been recovered that show evidence of ET?

Originally posted by jimnuggits
stories, historical texts, ancient architectural anomalies

Ancient Astronaut Theory cherry picks its 'evidence', it does not try to understand the culture where these things came from and is an argument from ignorance. Example:

Claim: People suddenly went from cavemen to building advanced pyramids in a short period of time.
Rebuttal: Look at the mastabas. Then look at the bent, red, and stepped pyramids. Afterwards, take a gander at the hieroglyphs & images made by the Egyptians themselves that show how they were built.

Originally posted by jimnuggits
photographs, videos,

Why are all these photographs & videos taken always in poor quality? If these ETs are everywhere, why has no one, especially the professional UFO investigators, gotten a high quality shot of these things?

Originally posted by jimnuggits
pilot and military witnesses,

This is an appeal to authority - these folks are just as fallible as the rest of this.

Originally posted by jimnuggits


I know it is against ATS protocol to shine light in the corners,

Thank for pointing out this protcol by ATS. I was not aware of it

How about this? In the over sixty years since Roswell, there is no clear evidence, no actual spaceships, and no press conferences indicating the presence of alien life.

If they are out there, wouldn't we have solid, undeniable proof by now? Sixty years, and no firsthand contact?

What gives?

Originally posted by Druid42
How about this? In the over sixty years since Roswell, there is no clear evidence, no actual spaceships, and no press conferences indicating the presence of alien life.

If they are out there, wouldn't we have solid, undeniable proof by now? Sixty years, and no firsthand contact?

What gives?

Maybe they are scared of your scary Avatar face! Just Kiddin' I could'nt resist

P.S. you make a good point

Skeptics do look for proof before running down the street and shouting "Eureka' every time a plane flies overhead at night with blinking lights. Without the skeptics some of the believers would be breaking out the Alien Autopsy video every Friday night and be drooling over the poor dead aliens being cut up by military secret doctor guys.

Neither side is 100% correct but you have your choice to believe in every personal story or in media's viewer driven content for their profits and ratings. And I have the option to sit back and pick it apart or set it aside as a "I don't know" event.

Both sides are needed. The all out believers to keep it on the front burner and keep it hot while the skeptics tries to make ufology not seem like a complete fallacy to those on the outside looking in. Everyone believing in UFO's would be as bad as everyone debunking UFO's because whatever is out there needs to be brought out in the open and examined and discussed.

And who are these people that make the fake video's, pictures, stories, and give these large group seminars to sell their products or autographs their books?

Are they the believer's or the skeptics?

I don't think its all the evil governments trying for dis-info. Maybe some believers are trying to sway public opinion, maybe some debunkers are trying to discredit the believers, maybe some people are out just to make a buck.

So no. To my satisfaction, no valid or set in concrete point was made by the OP's statements and I'll continue to examine what I read and watch with a questioning eye.

Originally posted by Algernonsmouse

... Proving to me that this stuff is real would not "ruin my day." Quite the opposite, it would be an amazing thing to find out. Being skeptical means wanting proof over blind faith, it is not about being opposed to you.

You make the OP's point for him. You seem to say that either there is "proof" -- as in a scientific, 3-sigma level of certainty, which any reasonable person admits there is not -- or else any belief is based on blind faith. As if there can be nothing in between?!?! That's simply not a rational position. That's not "skepticism." That's denial.

The OP is (correctly) telling some of the more hard-line skeptics that it's time for a gut-check, because too many on here improperly apply that label to themselves when what they actually are is a debunker or a denier.

Any person reading this who calls himself a "skeptic," yet cannot admit that there are several highly strange, very intriguing UFO cases -- cases highly *suggestive* of ET visitation, even though falling short of proof -- is not a true skeptic. That person is actually either ignorant of that most compelling UFO evidence, or is living in some kind of denial-laden fantasy land, one every bit as deserving of ridicule as that which is occupied by, for example, the saucer-callers and ET taxonomists.

This is an absurd thread that will accomplish nothing. Man, this board really needs to pick itself back up. The fact that you guys are even responding to OP astonishes me.

When I say testimony is considered evidence in a court of law, I did not necessarily mean testimony of witnessing a UFO sighting. I meant in general. Also keep in mind that physical evidence can be called into question and disallowed in a court of law as well.

Thousands of photographs exist of something that resemble craft that people have witnessed and testified to (not necessarily in court). So basically skeptics maintain that every single one of those photographs must be hoaxed, witness testimony be damned?

Not very open-minded.

Originally posted by lifeform11

do you know what a lower form of evidence is than that? listening to people who have seen nothing or witnessed nothing.

Except that (most) of these people who give explanations other then "I don't know, therefore aliens!" have seen things. I expect an astronomer to know more about things seen in the sky than your average citizen who's science education stopped at high school.

When people see things they don't understand, they get excited, and come up with exciting conclusions. "Alien Spacecraft" is much more exciting than "Chinese Lantern"/"Ball Lighting"/"The Moon"/"Military Craft"/"Satellite" and so on.

Originally posted by lifeform11
i mean if a u.f.o. incident occured who would you listen to first?

I would listen to both to understand where everyone's coming from. In each case I've looked at so far, the experts explanation was reasonable. I've yet to see a UFO case where their explanation seemed fishy.