I do not exist. Neither do you.

I personally share the same "belief" as the op. Our ego is just the result of billions of years of evolution.

I guess it's a bit of a nihilistic approach to life but you can be a nihilist and contribute to society.

There's a big difference in grasping a philosophical concept and applying it to the letter. I am a human being and part of a specie. I completely understand that. However, i know that each individual in this world is just a by product of shared experience and nothing else.

I also forgot that i'm a firm believer in determinism too :p

reply to post by AxlJones


There's nothing nihilistic about the no-self self, just the peace that comes from above and not as the world gives it.

Originally posted by Deetermined

Originally posted by smithjustinb

The passages you quoted do not validate your argument. What these passages mean is that salvation is not something we have to acquire at all, it is something that is already given to us and that regardless of who you are, it is already had because god distributes grace.

Correction. It's only given to us THROUGH FAITH. What part of that scripture did you not recognize?

Ephesians 2:8 - "For it is by grace you have been saved, THROUGH FAITH —and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—"

What part didn't YOU recognize? Faith is us accepting the gift that has been given. A gift was given. That gift was grace. We have always been allowed God's grace. It is up to us whether or not to accept it. If we don't accept what is rightfully ours, then we are not living as though we are saved. However, even then in the here or the hereafter, this gift will be available to us because that's the kind of God God is.

All that follows, in the form of works, is how man appreciates, or loves what he has been given.

True. An acknowledgement by FAITH that God/Jesus was the one who gave us this grace.

Acknowledgements are meaningless without commitment to Jesus' teachings.

If the salvation, that is God's grace, is not appreciated and we don't do what we are supposed to do, then we will have rejected the grace on our own accord. We can only be separate from God as much as we separate ourselves from God and ultimately as much as we believe we are separate from him. Rejection is hate. Acceptance is love.

By George, I think you've got it!! (Maybe?)

We have our own free will to decide whether or not to separate ourselves from God, and yes, sadly, some will reject Him. Not all will accept love.

Yes, but even separation is an illusion. You make yourself believe you are separate and behave accordingly, but separation is really impossible.

Salvation is a gift. It is not something that we worked for and it is not something that we have to work for to acquire.

Isn't that what my previous post said?

No, I don't think so. I believe you're still under the popular Christian belief that a trip to the altar one time and saying a prayer means you're saved and all you have to do is continue to believe that Jesus died for your sins. Well... That's definitely not how it works. Although this might not be what you really think. It is what the churches teach.

People that study reality normally recognize three domains of reality (or realms) that need to be considered, : (1) the divine, spiritual reality; (2) the objective reality; and (3) the reality of ideal forms. This OP is nihilistic against objective causal reality, and against the reality of ideal forms, and agrees only about the existence of spirit and universal mind. This is a metaphysical type of nihilism that is ignorant--and demands ignorance--of so many levels of causal reality and as such it is nihilistic against objective reality. This stance is nothing new.

One new thing that New Agers have introduced to thought on reality is that they tend to demand that one should focus only on the quantum level of causal reality, and treat the quantum level as if it is the only causally impactful level upon the self and things in the world, while ignoring the explanatory capacity of other causal levels of reality for how the various objects exist. Objective reality is characterized by various causal levels including objects of study under the social sciences (anthropology, sociology etc), the life sciences (psychology, biology etc), and the physical sciences (astronomy, physics etc).

When you focus solely on the "divine" or "spiritual" aspect of reality, you are proving that you are nihilistic against objective causal reality. When you focus solely on the quantum level of causal reality, you are proving that you are nihilistic against the existence of the other causal levels of reality. What this metaphysical type of nihilism amounts to is a spiritual (and, in some cases, quantum) reductionism. These New Agers tend to believe that spirit can be identified by quantum physics and that nothing else matters in reality. They play the politics of reality against the existence of objective causal reality and downgrade the political significance of the individual for existence. They deny dualistic (causal) reality, and claim that only non-dualistic (spiritual) reality exists. They define the non-dualistic reality as consisting of the negative of the ideal forms. And this leads me to this recognition of...another new thing that New Agers are introducing to thought on reality is that they are denying the existence of ideal forms, or trying to reverse them to their opposites by how they define them as their opposites. This type of nihilism is the most politically harmful for intelligent existence. It consists of accepting logical contradictions of the nature of things as the things themselves, according to which...:
The only Self is Non-Self.
The only truth is falsehood.
The only knowledge is ignorance.
The only logic is illogic.
The only justice is injustice.
The only peace is war.
......

For your own good, don't fall for this false spiritualism. The "spiritual" (or, I should say, 'pathological spiritual' because spiritual doesn't need to be this sick!), and political nihilisms reinforce each other. I find this very revealing about the connections between the underlying agendas of both the solipsist spiritualism (of only universal mind exists) and the post-humanist move for the one-world mind controller-government. This metaphysical type of nihilism is a spirito-political device for gaining support for the emergence of totalitarian control over the self through a post-humanist one-world 'mind controller' (aka government)!

Originally posted by Deetermined

It is something that at the birth of the universe was given to us. What we do with that gift is up to us. We can accept it or reject it.

Correction: It was something given to us by means of Jesus Christ dying on the cross. Otherwise, we'd be following the old Jewish laws and offering sacrifices on an alter to show our faith. So, this may be something that's been offered to us since the time of our births, BUT NOT THE BIRTH OF THE UNIVERSE. (This is where the thinking takes a wrong turn.) This is why it's important to understand the significance of Jesus dying on the cross.

No. God has always been a merciful God, even before Jesus. All Jesus really did for us is show us the way to come to this realization and live in the truth of it. Jesus' death on the cross is nothing more than an example of ultimate selflessness. It's not a magical act that constitutes man's salvation. It is showing that a man believed so strongly in the profound message that he taught that he was willing to die for it. He showed us that love was the way to God because when he was asked to step down from teaching this he was unwavering. He was willing to die for what he taught about love. Love is what he taught and love is the way to salvation.

We were given grace by God at the beginning of the Universe, but we just needed someone to come down to show us how to accept that gift and receive it properly.

Accepting the gift is accepting Jesus Christ because Jesus IS love which is acceptance. So ultimately, all we have to do is plainly, accept.

Yes, plainly ACCEPT!! I think you're catching on again!

You have to read and understand instead of hear what has been told to you and read to validate what you have been told. Find your own interpretation.

Already have. I read the Bible and scour the internet for every interpretation I can find to weigh all of the evidence, but clearly, the Bible is my main point of reference. And why is that? Because it's the only book that teaches us the significance of Jesus. He's the only one that God sent to the earth to die for us. No other "prophet" did that. So, I listen to what Jesus taught closely. And Jesus did not say He was ONE with the Universe. He said he was ONE with God. I think I already mentioned the meaning of the Holy Trinity to you.

God is all there is. So to be one with God is to be ONE with the Universe, and whatever else is 'out there'. This is why we are in him and he is in God (as said in the Bible). When God is in him and he is in us (as also said in the bible), then it is because we are accepting the unity. There's that bidirectional association again. You see? Unity IS talked about in the Bible. All is God's creation and all is in him. Jesus didn't say other animals were the body of him because other animals can't read so the message wouldn't have mattered to them, but I assure you, all is in him. By acceptance of all, all is in us. Jesus did the wonders he did because he accepted the all that is God so God did the wonders through him. All is in God, but God is not in all. Our mission is to let God shine through us by accepting him into us. Accepting him means accepting all because all is in him.

I do believe everything he taught. It is you who doesn't understand what he taught. You believe what you believe that he taught, but that isn't really what he taught. Jesus taught unity. Jesus taught unity by selflessness which leads to peace. Jesus taught love. Jesus wanted you to know that if you love, then you are saved. By accepting him you accept all because all are the body of him that is one. Acceptance is love.

Read this last statement back to yourself. Then show me where the Bible says that it only takes love or that by accepting him that you accept all as being saved too. I really want you to show me this one. We should be accepting of all, but that does not mean that all will accept Christ. This is the difference I'm trying to show here.

edit on 2-12-2011 by Deetermined because: (no reason given)

I didn't say that accepting him means you accept all as being saved. All are saved already because God is merciful. It is up to All to accept God's gift of grace. I never said all would accept though. I just said that if you accept him that is made up of the all then you accept the all.

Originally posted by smithjustinb

I didn't say that accepting him means you accept all as being saved. All are saved already because God is merciful. It is up to All to accept God's gift of grace. I never said all would accept though. I just said that if you accept him that is made up of the all then you accept the all.

The way you have worded this actually makes sense. It's all in the wording. I've always looked at it from the order that you must accept Christ first to become saved second. But you really are correct. God offered salvation first and I accepted Him second. Did you have to wait this long to tell me that you knew not all would accept? Could have saved us a couple of thousand sentences! LOL!

Read The The Yoga of time travel by Alan Wolf. It states that time is an illusion, and our real self is an immortal entity.

Originally posted by smithjustinb
Its true. There is no ME and there is no YOU. There is no COMPUTER that I am typing THIS on right now, and I am not even typing IT.

All of these are just concepts used to define a separation. We are crafting an illusion with these concepts. Illusions deter you from seeing the truth of reality as it is.

There is only the UNIverse. There is no separation from that. Oneness.

The truth is freedom. The truth is divine. Jesus said, "I am the truth." He didn't say, "I know the truth." He didn't say, "I have the truth." or "I heard the truth.". He said, "I am the truth." The truth is what we all are as one.

We cannot define God, the truth. All we can know is that it is what we are.

Conceptualization is the path to unlightenment.

There is no me. There is only universe.

edit on 29-11-2011 by smithjustinb because: (no reason given)

ETA: The point of this thread is only to encourage the realization that the concept of "you" is a misidentification that perpetuates the illusion of separation. There is no you. There is only the universe.

edit on 29-11-2011 by smithjustinb because: (no reason given)

What you have called, "you" all your life was really an misidentification that perpetuated the illusion of separation. The proper identification is that of unity. What is is what is and is what you are.

edit on 29-11-2011 by smithjustinb because: (no reason given)

Are you one of the guys handing out cool aid on the grassy knoll?

Originally posted by smithjustinb

Originally posted by Insearch89
Stand in front of a railroad track and tell the incoming train it doesn't exist. What you fell next will answer any doubts you have about reality. lol

I have no doubts about reality. There is no train. There is only the universe.

Send me all your money, you don't need it, or I call fake on your belief in this.

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by AxlJones

 

There's nothing nihilistic about the no-self self, just the peace that comes from above and not as the world gives it.

It's metaphysical nihilism because if you are not real, and everything you experience isn't real, then what is? What then would actually matter?

reply to post by thepixelpusher


I like your signature very much.

OP, you have one brain and two minds. One being your self conscious which has evolved to percieve itself as an individual the other being your subconscious mind which existed before the self conscious mind when humans were defined to be in their animal state.

What you are doing is classic subconscious mind diminishment of the self in reaction to a reality you cannot accept. It's main impulsion is to deny/avoid/discredit/reject any aspect of the reality it percieves yet cannot control or accept.

The majority of organized religons also exibit this predictable behaviour of rejection of reality by the creation of a sub-reality that has gods,angels, demons and so on and on.

You are continually defining belief as truth which it cannot be as all belief cannot be known, for if it is known it is no longer belief and what is not known cannot be known to be true or claimed to be true, no matter how much you want it to be or believe it to be.

There is so much we as a species are yet to realize. Claiming belief as truth only dimishes our ability to accept the reality of our existence.

Your subconscious mind is justifiably intolerant of limitaions, your self conscious mind is an evolved part of your brain to do exactly that, limit or rather reasonably regulate its reactive rejections so as not to justifiably destroy itself. We only need to pick up a paper or watch some news to realize this behaviour is esculating again.

This behaviour is the primal cause of all human compelled civilizational collapse. Be mindful of your self it seperates you from the animals...

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---------
Self acceptance is the key to the lock of self rejection, the universe needs you to percieve your self as seperate so it can know it exists.

Though we may not be here in some senses or perspectives we are physically here and may as well use our presence and powers for the cause of helping humanity.

reply to post by smithjustinb

I'm sure I haven't. You seem to have a bare minimum knowledge on the subject. Have you ever considered Descartes proposal 'I think therefore I am'? You're contradicting yourself, one minute we don't exist the next we do? We exist in the universe, yet we're still a separate being from it. Until we can travel to another universe, this can't be proven, but this is common sense, you're delving far too deep in a subject that doesn't need it.

reply to post by jesselacey


Step into the void if you dare:
youtu.be...

See that you are nothing and everything.

Namaste.

reply to post by Lucidia


I am only nihilistic towards separation.

Originally posted by thepixelpusher

Originally posted by smithjustinb

Originally posted by Insearch89
Stand in front of a railroad track and tell the incoming train it doesn't exist. What you fell next will answer any doubts you have about reality. lol

I have no doubts about reality. There is no train. There is only the universe.

Send me all your money, you don't need it, or I call fake on your belief in this.

Send me your brain. Oh wait, it doesn't exist. If you actually understood the OP, I might have been able to say differently. I would have been able to say that your brain exists but not as something separate from the Unified Universe. But no, your brain actually doesn't exist at all.

Originally posted by satron

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by AxlJones

 

There's nothing nihilistic about the no-self self, just the peace that comes from above and not as the world gives it.

It's metaphysical nihilism because if you are not real, and everything you experience isn't real, then what is? What then would actually matter?

No one is implying that the experience of no-self is not real. Everything is real. Everything except false beliefs.

No-self means selflessness. It is a mind-state which you can operate not for yourself, but for the all, because you see how insignificant you are compared to the all. You also see that you are one with it. With this awareness, everything becomes more real than the ego had allowed before. You become full of life. I only meant to imply in my original post that we as individuals don't exist individually. We exist as a collective that individually believes the lie of separation. So there is no I that is existing, it is a this. It is an us and there is no conceptual differentiation to 'this' that is unified.

Originally posted by subtopia
OP, you have one brain and two minds. One being your self conscious which has evolved to percieve itself as an individual the other being your subconscious mind which existed before the self conscious mind when humans were defined to be in their animal state.

What you are doing is classic subconscious mind diminishment of the self in reaction to a reality you cannot accept. It's main impulsion is to deny/avoid/discredit/reject any aspect of the reality it percieves yet cannot control or accept.

On the contrary. This observation of unity is propagated by my ability to accept reality.

The majority of organized religons also exibit this predictable behaviour of rejection of reality by the creation of a sub-reality that has gods,angels, demons and so on and on.

Yeah, these things definitely do exist. Not as something I believe, but as something I have seen.

You are continually defining belief as truth which it cannot be as all belief cannot be known, for if it is known it is no longer belief and what is not known cannot be known to be true or claimed to be true, no matter how much you want it to be or believe it to be.

It's nothing I want and it's nothing I believe. It's something that is innately here and something I see and see myself as a part of.

There is so much we as a species are yet to realize. Claiming belief as truth only dimishes our ability to accept the reality of our existence.

Accepting the reality of existence is the key to seeing past the self-imposed lies of the ego.

Your subconscious mind is justifiably intolerant of limitaions, your self conscious mind is an evolved part of your brain to do exactly that, limit or rather reasonably regulate its reactive rejections so as not to justifiably destroy itself. We only need to pick up a paper or watch some news to realize this behaviour is esculating again.

This behaviour is the primal cause of all human compelled civilizational collapse. Be mindful of your self it seperates you from the animals...

Yes it does. Which helps to further illustrate my point that the belief in a separate self is what causes the illusion of separation. We aren't separate from the animals. Believing that we are above everything on this planet is exactly the reason we destroy everything here. You cannot be above if you are equal. If you knew all was one and equal, you would do no intentional harm. So it should be obvious that the reason human kind is a war-mongering species is because not only do we believe we are separate, but we try hard to further separate ourselves. We try to become better than others. No one is better than anyone. It is all self-proclaimed and ignorantly supported. The illusion of being 'better' is part of the illusion of separation crafted from the false sense of identity known as the ego. All IS one. I know this because I live it. I see it everyday. I don't see what you see. I see beyond those limitations. I see what is there. You see what you want to see.

Self acceptance is the key to the lock of self rejection, the universe needs you to percieve your self as seperate so it can know it exists.

Acceptance of the self as something not separate from the all and acceptance of that all is the key to God and the accompanying divine, enlightened lifestyle.