Liberty University OKs Concealed Guns on Campus

Reply to post by Equidae

You're probably right. When I was in school I was surrounded by idiots.

Those idiots aren't going to go out and arm themselves just because they can lawfully carry at school. They just won't do it.

Those who will carry on campus already do in every other place they are permitted. The jerk-off college kid who doesn't already carry won't be pushed to simply because he now can.

That campus is no different than any other place in the world. There are people carrying lawfully and, unfortunately, unlawfully around us everyday everywhere we go. A campus is no different.

Why should a person carrying lawfully all over have to lock it up and put it away to sit in a lecture? And why would a person who has never shown any interest in carrying in their daily life suddenly go out and arm themselves just because now they can at one specific place?


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Reply to post by Equidae

I'm still waiting for those drunken shootouts.


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Reply to post by FallenWun

Did be say "everyone?"
Okay. Let's all be disingenuous literalists for the sake of keeping our positions afloat.

It won't reflect reality but if it keeps a pointless argument going then it's good fun all around.

The fact is one hard target in a room of 50 is better than no hard target in a room of 50.

If "everyone" is to be armed in a classroom then we should see "everyone" armed outside of a classroom. We know this isnt the case or we wouldnt get opposing viewpoints which we obviously do.


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Originally posted by thisguyrighthere
Reply to post by Equidae

 

You're probably right. When I was in school I was surrounded by idiots.

Those idiots aren't going to go out and arm themselves just because they can lawfully carry at school. They just won't do it.

Those who will carry on campus already do in every other place they are permitted. The jerk-off college kid who doesn't already carry won't be pushed to simply because he now can.

That campus is no different than any other place in the world. There are people carrying lawfully and, unfortunately, unlawfully around us everyday everywhere we go. A campus is no different.

Why should a person carrying lawfully all over have to lock it up and put it away to sit in a lecture? And why would a person who has never shown any interest in carrying in their daily life suddenly go out and arm themselves just because now they can at one specific place?

 

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I don't have a problem with concealed carry on campus. It's the oversexed, immature, and drunken students which bothers me. I'm in college right now, and I wouldn't trust most of my classmates with an airsoft gun let alone a real one.

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere
Reply to post by Equidae

 

I'm still waiting for those drunken shootouts.

 

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Just because it hasn't happened yet doesn't mean it never will. Intoxication and firearms are a very volatile mix.

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere
Reply to post by FallenWun

 

Did be say "everyone?"

Yes.

Okay. Let's all be disingenuous literalists for the sake of keeping our positions afloat.

If his point is not to be taken literally, then it is pointLESS. His whole point is based on the perception of the shooter being that everyone else is armed. If everyone else is not actually armed, his argument falls apart around that.

It won't reflect reality but if it keeps a pointless argument going then it's good fun all around.

The fact is one hard target in a room of 50 is better than no hard target in a room of 50.

If "everyone" is to be armed in a classroom then we should see "everyone" armed outside of a classroom. We know this isnt the case or we wouldnt get opposing viewpoints which we obviously do.

 

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You better talk to the OP then if your problem is with his point. He is on the same side as you and here you are dashing his wonderful logic all to pieces.

Reply to post by FallenWun

I'm scanning the previous pages and haven't found "everyone" yet.

I've found "lots of" and "student with CCP" and even the OP stating that just because they can doesn't mean they will referring to training requirements.

Of course this is all off-topic but what the hell.

I could have easilly missed "everyone" though. It's late, I'm tired and this screen is very small.


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reply to post by kennylee


Human memory is poor, and people don't think when they are forced to react. What if more than one person pulls their gun? Several people could be shooting eachother. It is not realistic to expect college students to have the ability and calmness to react under stress when being fired at. I bet if you put most cops in that situation, they couldn't do it.

reply to post by schuyler


Actually it doesn't. Many college's here in oregon allow concealed carry within state law.

Which is of course possessing a conceal carry permit.

reply to post by supine

Then the STATE should be paying for ADDED security and not putting the responsibility onto students who are paying a pretty penny to be at school for AN EDUCATION!

well then, you need to take this argument back to the Supreme Court as they have long ago stood firm on the basic principle of personal security being personal ... ie ... you / student / me / everybody is responsible for THEIR OWN security.

Not the school, not the city, not the state, not the neighbor, not even the local PD ... that's the law, you want it changed, there is a way to do that. Whining about it is pretty much pointless.

Kudos to the University for choosing to the enforce the Constitution rather usurp it.
surprise supine, part of that Education IS learning to defend yourself ...
especially if you haven't already.

what you fail to acknowledge is that CCP/CWP holders are inherently more responsible people, regardless their age ... they have to be in order to maintain their permit.

Drunken rampages and/or accidents are seldom carried out by permitted gun owners. Those occur more often than not by ppl who don't even own the piece legally let alone have a permit or any amount of training.
Your perceived threat is only a product of your imagination ... nothing more.

Originally posted by supine
reply to post by kennylee

 

Guns and alcohol do not mix.

Given the amount of partying that goes on at any campus, this seems like an awfully dangerous risk to me.

Instead of arming students, campuses need to be prepared security wise to protect the students there.

So they're old enough and responsible enough to be armed and sent to kill the citizens of sovereign nations for oil, but not old enough to arm them to assist in the protection of themselves and their neighbors? Interesting argument you have there, komrade.

/TOA

Originally posted by FallenWun

Originally posted by kennylee
You are right in that they would not care if other students were packing, but that doesn't stop the fact that they would be stopped by another student's bullet way before the police could respond, saving countless lives.

So automatically arming these college students will suddenly make them brave, responsible, crack shots?
How does that happen?

first, because they don't become automatically armed ... they get and carry a permit.
while completing the permit process, they practice

responsible ??? well, that one is debatable, but hey, they gave Jared Loughner one ... so, if the likes of he can get one, why should the students be restricted from properly and equally defending themselves ??
crack shots are developed via practice ... not via your or their imagination.

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere
Reply to post by Equidae

 

I'm still waiting for those drunken shootouts.

 

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yeppers, been waiting for those nearly half a century now and not-a-one ... i call false advertising

reply to post by FallenWun

Probably because that is the reasoning being used by the OP and his ilk to make this argument. What is his argument again? Oh, right. No shooting rampages because EVERYONE else will be armed.

I just love how you add to my words. Not once did I say Everyone would be armed. And what if they were since you are the one who said it? There will not be a disgruntled shooting in this school. Its okay to send 18 year olds to WAR with a M-16 or M-4 to protect the country, but they are not responsible enough to carry a gun on their person, and like has been mentioned, if they have a CCW, then they are already carrying in shopping malls, restaurants, any place they go and the streets are not running red with blood.

It seems that you anti-gunners do not look at the statistics or the facts. All you can think is Guns Are Bad. Criminalize guns and only Criminals will have guns. Ban guns on campus and only the disgruntled student that wants to kill everyone will have a gun. Guns make things safer when law abiding citizens are carrying them, no matter where you are at.

Originally posted by kennylee
Its okay to send 18 year olds to WAR with a M-16 or M-4 to protect the country, but they are not responsible enough to carry a gun on their person

This reply is also for The Old American.


We have a volunteer armed forces. No 18 year old is forced to join, but if they do, they are well trained in how to use their weapons before they are sent off to WAR. That's the difference here.

Nobody in this thread has ever said it's ok to send any 18 year old off to war.

If the draft were ever reinstated you would have an argument here!

Originally posted by Honor93
reply to post by supine

 

Then the STATE should be paying for ADDED security and not putting the responsibility onto students who are paying a pretty penny to be at school for AN EDUCATION!

well then, you need to take this argument back to the Supreme Court as they have long ago stood firm on the basic principle of personal security being personal ... ie ... you / student / me / everybody is responsible for THEIR OWN security.

Not the school, not the city, not the state, not the neighbor, not even the local PD ... that's the law, you want it changed, there is a way to do that. Whining about it is pretty much pointless.

Kudos to the University for choosing to the enforce the Constitution rather usurp it.
surprise supine, part of that Education IS learning to defend yourself ...
especially if you haven't already.

what you fail to acknowledge is that CCP/CWP holders are inherently more responsible people, regardless their age ... they have to be in order to maintain their permit.

Drunken rampages and/or accidents are seldom carried out by permitted gun owners. Those occur more often than not by ppl who don't even own the piece legally let alone have a permit or any amount of training.
Your perceived threat is only a product of your imagination ... nothing more.

Campus security is not the responsibility of the state. If it did I am sure before long we'd have to go through TSA body scanners just to enter a classroom

Originally posted by kennylee
reply to post by FallenWun

 

Probably because that is the reasoning being used by the OP and his ilk to make this argument. What is his argument again? Oh, right. No shooting rampages because EVERYONE else will be armed.

I just love how you add to my words. Not once did I say Everyone would be armed. And what if they were since you are the one who said it? There will not be a disgruntled shooting in this school. Its okay to send 18 year olds to WAR with a M-16 or M-4 to protect the country, but they are not responsible enough to carry a gun on their person, and like has been mentioned, if they have a CCW, then they are already carrying in shopping malls, restaurants, any place they go and the streets are not running red with blood.

It seems that you anti-gunners do not look at the statistics or the facts. All you can think is Guns Are Bad. Criminalize guns and only Criminals will have guns. Ban guns on campus and only the disgruntled student that wants to kill everyone will have a gun. Guns make things safer when law abiding citizens are carrying them, no matter where you are at.

edit on 11/21/11 by kennylee because: (no reason given)

I was in the military, and I also have a concealed carry permit. The CC permit class is a joke, especially when compared to the weapons training I received when I was in (and I was an airwinger with only basic instruction). Up the CC instruction and require refresher training every year or two and then I'd feel better about allowing teenagers to CC.

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere
Reply to post by FallenWun

 

I'm scanning the previous pages and haven't found "everyone" yet.

I've found "lots of" and "student with CCP" and even the OP stating that just because they can doesn't mean they will referring to training requirements.

Of course this is all off-topic but what the hell.

I could have easilly missed "everyone" though. It's late, I'm tired and this screen is very small.

 

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No my friend, you didn't miss the word "everyone" because it was never said. That's just more words being added so that they can try and make their point. I love how people add stuff to what is said just because it sounds better for their side of the argument.

And like you, I am waiting for the reports of mass casualties shootings from CCW holders in the bars and the streets running red with blood because of all the CCW holders that are carrying weapons.

This University will be one that probably will not be attacked and if it does get attacked, will be one where there are little or no casualties, except for the gunman.

According to the Constitution, everyone has the right to bear arms, with or without a CCW. A CCW is a good thing in this scenario though because of the training and the background checks.

Originally posted by supine
Sometimes they are in their apartments, getting drunk.
Sometimes they hit the bars in town, to get drunk.

How about we stop with the "what if" hype?

In an off campus apartment they can carry without violating the college's rules. The same with a bar in town.

As far as "teens" running around with guns, most States won't issue a conceled carry permit to anyone under 21.

The stupid part about these college rules and ALL gun control laws, is that people who obey them are not the people that you have to worry about in the first place. That's why they DON'T work.

As I have posted before, I carried the entire time I was in college. Granted I was in my late 30's to early 40's and I also have an armed security certification (the same one the campus police had to have). I never had to pull my weapon in a campus building (the outside parking lot was a different matter). Right after the Virginia Tech shootings, one of my Professors asked me if I was carrying and I replied "Yes", he said "Good". The University that I attended was in a nasty part of the city after dark and several assaults and rapes had happened in the parking lots in the past. When I left class at night, there were several people waiting for me at the door to the parking lot, the majority of them were faculty.

I'm a NRA member and gun owner but imo allowing kids to carry is incredibly stupid; They can't even drive a car in a responsible manner. I offer this as evidence....

www2.potsdam.edu...

So letting them carry pistols is a good idea? If I had of had a pistol in college; I would never have graduated and would be in the pen. Alcohol and being a hot head, I would have killed someone.

I just hope the tragic consequences to follow don't happen to any of my fellow ATS members or their kids.

www.davekopel.com...