Let's kill the Pentagon Missile attack once and for all.

If you READ all that has been posted in these threads about the attcks of 9/11 you will see that it is believed by many that those plans that hit the towers were NOT the planes.It is speculated that they were guided by remote.On the other hand,it is possible that they were the planes in question,and they did infact parish.
But to argue that it doesnt make sense to crash 2 planes and not another is ridiculious.Is it a law they have to use planes at all locations?Is it a must?No it isnt.
And if you use common sense,by blowing up a plane in the MIDDLE of the ocean,it is most likely NOT going to wash up anywhere.If blown out of the sky,it's just going to shatter into small pieces and eventually sink.Another possibilty is that it too was lead by remote to sea and simply drove into the water to sink.If a small boat can sink in a matter of minutes,Im quite sure a huge plane can as well.

16 pages later and I am not convinced by either side. I refuse to simply accept and believe what the "official" story is, but yet there isn't enough of "other" evidence to conclusively prove otherwise.

the pentagon and 9/11 will remain a mystery or conspiracy, whichever way you want to look at it.

If the wanted to create some big evil plan yes they would have to use a plane at the pentagon. It would not be outside their power if the could take it out to the ocean. It would be stupid not to use one and would make no sense

Unless you want people to make conspiracy theories about which they wouldnt have wanted.

Also this ocean theory does not explain the bodies that showed up at Air Force's Charles C. Carson Center for Mortuary Affairs at Dover Air Force Base. Did they somehow manage to pick all the bodies out of this oceans crash? It could not be done

Theory on What Happened to the bodies of the Passengers and Crew:
The dead staff from the Pentagon were shipped to a morgue in Virginia i.e. Fort Belvoir then the same bodies were shipped to a morgue in Dover Delaware. It is speculation that Flight 77 landed at a Military base in Ohio where the passengers and crew were taken off put in a room and bombs were set off to rip them to shreds. The passenger and crew body parts could then be shipped to the morgue in Dover Delaware at the same time the Pentagon Employees were being shipped from the morgue in Virginia. The People in Dover would never realize that the bodies were coming from different locations.

Take it however you wish.

Yeah thats starting to get a little far fetched now. There is no proof to back up any of that. This whole subject about the people of flight 77 is very important to any theory that anything other then flight 77 hit the pentagon.

And if thats the best they can come up with im not impressed. Why not just say aliens killed the people of flight 77 and dropped them off at Dover AFB theres the same amount of proof to back up that claim

I have not fully investigated the passengers yet.I first want to know what hit the petagon and go from there.If it is found to be another aircraft,we then need to find out where the bodies and plane are.

Well make sure you put some time into your research for the people of flight 77. It is a very important part of the whole thing without explaining them most theories just fall apart.

Shadow do not kidnap the thread its about the plane not the people.
Of course we know that if the 757 was not there surely the people should have been elsewhere.

Dont you believe the US goverment will do anything to preserve their status Quo? ask the 1002 dead at Irak? the more than 1000 soldiers who died prior to normandy D day in a excersise, and their families where lied to, (we know that because of the 50 years declasification of documents).
In 50 years we may know what really happened.

Now at 12 o clock on sep 11 2001 all air activity was stopped, and EVERYONE was glued to TV who says the plane was not take to Nevada and destroyed there with all PAX, remember the 757 had 28000 gal of fuel -going to LAX- so its quite posibe BUT THAT IS NOT THE POINT

THE POINT IS SOMETHING CRASHED AT THE PENTAGON BUT AMERICAN AIRLINES 757 WAS NOT IT

I've decided the best way to do this is to state the evidence, and facts, and come to a conclusion. Everything I list here as evidence includes links to sources, names of individuals, and notes if I have added any comments or visual aids to any photos.

I may repeat some information and images in this post (from images and information previously posted), and I apologize for the length of the information, and for the size of some of the photos, but I can see no other way to provide the information without losing clarity and quality and most importantly accuracy. It is apparent that without the entire collection of evidence people quickly forget something outlined on a previous post. I will freely admit in this post that I was incorrect on some facts in my previous posts, and I will correct these mistakes here. I will also try to link every image to its original source, unless it is an image I have added comments or visual aids to.


Did a 757 hit the Pentagon on 9-11

First let�s start with the factual information available on hand.

The 757-200
As we can see from the freely available information for the Boeing 757 (from the Boeing website). The 757 is a midsized commercial airliner designed for short haul and medium haul routes (Medium Range Transport (MR-TR)), although since its release, and the subsequent discovery of the Wake Vortex it leaves behind the FAA has classified the 757 as a "Heavy" aircraft; the FAA places the 757 in the Geometric Design Classification IV, and an ATC Operation Class C. (source)

The 757-200 dimensions:
Tail Height: 44 ft 6 in (13.6m)
Length: 155 ft 3 in (47.32m)
Wingspan: 124 ft 10 in (38.05m)
Body Exterior Width: 12 ft 4 in (3.7m)
Fuel Capacity: 11,489 us gal (43,490l / 43,490kg)
Maximum Takeoff weight: 255,000lb (115,680kg)
Typical Cruise Speed: 0.80 Mach (573.6mph / 956kmh)
Engines used on a 757: Two 166.4kN (37,400lb) Rolls-Royce RB211-535C turbofans, or 178.8kN (40,200lb) RB211-535E4s, or 193.5kN (43,500lb) RB211-535E4-Bs, or 162.8kN (36,600lb) Pratt & Whitney PW2037s, or two 178.4kN (40,100lb) PW2040s, or 189.5kN (42,600lb) PW2043s. (source1)www.flybernhard.de..." target="_blank" class="postlink"> (source2)
Auxiliary Power Unit: Honeywell GTCP331-200

Click here to ->take a walk around inside a Boeing 757.


left portion: source1 right portion: source2 (height and width notation to graphic added by me)


Next, let�s look at the Pentagon.

The Pentagon

The Pentagon was designed in the early 40's and was completed in only 16 months on Jan 14, 1943. The shortages of materials required for war production raised many design and construction problems. The use of reinforced concrete in lieu of formed steel for the building made possible a saving of 43,000 tons of steel, more than enough to build a battleship. The use of concrete ramps rather than elevators further reduced steel requirements. Drainage pipes were concrete; ducts were fiber, interior doors were wood. An unusual wall design - concrete spandrels carried to window sill level - eliminated many miles of through-wall copper flashing.(Source1) (Source2)

Recent renovations and upgrades to the building were nearing completion on the side hit on 9-11 and performed reasonably well considering they were not designed to withstand aircraft impact. On September 11, when an American Airlines Boeing 757 crashed into the Pentagon, home of the U.S. Department of Defense (DoD), about 20,000 people were at work in this, the largest office building in the world. Yet according to the DoD casualty update on October 1, only 125 Pentagon employees were killed along with the 64 from the fated airliner. (source - Architecture Week)

Lets get back to the scrap metal on the lawn,,,,,,,,
I have done some digging around and found this page which is a bit confusing until you read it a few times.

New photos of actual Flight 77 plane clinch case for planted "identifying" debris
First here are photos of the Flight 77 plane: Boeing 757-223 N644AA AA Flight 77 Fleet #5BP cn24602/365
PORT SIDE
PORT SIDE BELOW
STARBOARD SIDE
STARBOARD SIDE ON GROUND

And here is the famous piece of airplane skin that the world erroneously believes to is a piece of Flight 77 N644AA and proof that that plane crashed into Pentagon.



The only problem with that is that this particular piece did not come from the side of a Boeing 757 that would have been facing this part of the lawn (north of the crash) had the killer plane been Flight 77. The piece definitely comes from the starboard side of a 575, the side that would have been facing the lawn south of the crash, not north. This is easily and conclusively demonstrated.
Read More....

Now lets dig even deeper,,,,,,,,,,
Here is a photo of the scrap next to a parked truck.



And now lets get some similar comparasons as already done.



Find more information at these sites.
Missle or Flight 77?
Pentagon Crash
What hit the Pentagon
Elementary 9/11
Did Flight 77 REALLY crash into Pentagon?

Now how about those Eye Witnesses,,,,,,,,,
Though some maybe favor mine and others theories,you cant rely on them.Here are a few just so you can see what I mean.
It's all about the HE said SHE said........
FOR US CRAZY PEOPLE
Steve Patterson, 43, said he was watching television reports of the World Trade Center being hit when he saw a silver commuter jet fly past the window of his 14th-floor apartment in Pentagon City. The plane was about 150 yards away, approaching from the west about 20 feet off the ground, Patterson said. He said the plane, which sounded like the high-pitched squeal of a fighter jet, flew over Arlington cemetary so low that he thought it was going to land on I-395. He said it was flying so fast that he couldn't read any writing on the side. The plane, which appeared to hold about eight to 12 people, headed straight for the Pentagon but was flying as if coming in for a landing on a nonexistent runway, Patterson said. "At first I thought 'Oh my God, there's a plane truly misrouted from National,'" Patterson said. "Then this thing just became part of the Pentagon .�.�. I was watching the World Trade Center go and then this. It was like Oh my God, what's next?" He said the plane, which approached the Pentagon below treetop level, seemed to be flying normally for a plane coming in for a landing other than going very fast for being so low. Then, he said, he saw the Pentagon "envelope" the plane and bright orange flames shoot out the back of the building. "It looked like a normal landing, as if someone knew exactly what they were doing," said Patterson, a graphics artist who works at home. "This looked intentional."

AGAINST US CRAZY PEOPLE
A pilot who saw the impact, Tim Timmerman, said it had been an American Airways 757. "It added power on its way in," he said. "The nose hit, and the wings came forward and it went up in a fireball." Smoke and flames poured out of a large hole punched into the side of the Pentagon. Emergency crews rushed fire engines to the scene and ambulancemen ran towards the flames holding wooden pallets to carry bodies out. A few of the lightly injured, bleeding and covered in dust, were recovering on the lawn outside, some in civilian clothes, some in uniform. A piece of twisted aircraft fuselage lay nearby. No one knew how many people had been killed, but rescue workers were finding it nearly impossible to get to people trapped inside, beaten back by the flames and falling debris.

So what a second here.Emergency crews rushed fire engines to the scene and ambulancemen ran towards the flames holding wooden pallets to carry bodies out. A few of the lightly injured, bleeding and covered in dust, were recovering on the lawn outside, some in civilian clothes, some in uniform.
No images of this from the guy who was there 10 minutes after the crash to take a shot of the scrap metal on the lawn?Surely he was there at the time they were dragging out bodies.I mean we have images of bodies from WTC,hell,even ones of the jumpers.But NONE from the Pentagon?
Oh yeah,does it not seem that this guy saw alot in detail?Where was this guy? He said another witness told him a helicopter exploded. Now there was a helicopter.What helicopter is that?Was it on the pad at the time of this event and PERHAPS this is where the scrap metal on the lawn came from?

Read More...

Contradicting stories,missing pieces,lies,,,,I dont buy it.

Originally posted by SMR
That does NOT prove anything other than there was a plane with those occupants and they are ASSUMED to be the ones that crashed into the Petagon.For all we know,if you go with the missle/other craft theory,that the plane they were one could have made a flight out to sea and downed.It would not be hard to accomplish that at all.The ocean is huge and taking a plane out there and having it shot down by military planes can be done with no peeping eyes.

[edit on 10-9-2004 by SMR]

SMR, I wonder what were to happen if you were ever to meet any of the relatives of those killed. Would you have the stones to explain your theories to them in person?



BTW, why go through all of that effort, when you could fly the plane into a building instead?



[edit on 10-9-2004 by HowardRoark]

Originally posted by kix
Shadow do not kidnap the thread its about the plane not the people.
Of course we know that if the 757 was not there surely the people should have been elsewhere.

This thread is about killing the pentagon missile attack. and the people of flight 77 are a important part of that. If you cant explain what happened to these people then most of the theories dont hold any power.

How can you have a thread about this and then want to overlook one of the biggest facts in the whole story. If you dont like that point perhaps its because you cant explain it and it doesnt fit with your views.

Deal with it

Why would I be worried about telling any of them what I thought?It's an opinion like any other.Dont try and stonewall me.
Presenting my opinions/theories of what may have happened does not make me a monster and certainly would not anger those who lost loved ones.I think what would happen is thier interest in what I think may have happened since they,just like MANY,have not recieved REAL and FULL answers from anyone else other than,,,,the plane your _____ was on just crashed into the Pentagon.

And why go through the effort?Uhhh,maybe incase someone saw something they were not supossed to see or hear about?Another reason would be because maybe they were not sure what type or how much damage a plane would do.Knowing what a missle or the like would do,it seems more logical to go with the latter ,,,to make SURE the job got done

VEry ggod point I see you done yur homework lets go piece by Piece:

Size of 757 matches the initial size of hole in the building - somewhere between 13 and 16 feet (757 is 13 feet wide/high)

Since there is NOT a contest of crashing a 757 everyweek and we dont know what size an airliner punches trough the pentagon any hole larger that the fuselage diameter would do HOW convenient dont you think? a really big explotion would do the same and since the building collpsed we may never ever know the way the esplotion affected the outer wall, sufice to say that you state the Tristar 1011 is about the same size of a 757 ITS NOT. The Tristar has a very large fuselage and weight 19 tons more in it shortest version
I can make a very long thread explaing the aeronautics details but Ill be consice.
As I cannot probe that a 757 makes that king of hole you cannot either.

Rims found in building match those of a 757

They look alike but they are not the holes are asimetrical and those in the photo are simetrical, also the rim is convexe and the one in the photo IS NOT, the weight of the lead balancers WHO DID MENTION THEM? The center cap on the trunnion obviously missing is of no consequence since its missing and we cant compare it with the original. Also the lip is very pronounced if you put your hand in to a 757 wheel rim you may notice is more than an inch deep....

Small turbine engine outside is an APU
Exactly is not an RR engine, the auxiliary power unit on the tail of the 757 made by garret could be that on the photo but a lot of planes use garret equipment (more than 35 diferent ones)

Same engine has been clearly stated to not match a Global Hawk engine
I never mentioned a Global Hawk I could be another kind of plane/missile, we suspect of a GH because of size and match of some other data (to me its an hipothesis)

Blue seats from 757 laying on ground in photos

Those Seats, weird they are missing some sturdier parts like the aluminium and also we should check airliner num reg N644AA to see if it was equipped with flotation devices as lower seats (do you know-I dont) if so they maight as well be seats if not sorry but the remains should be more complete.


Part of "American" fuselage logo visible in more than 1 photo

If you probe to me the gary part is SILVER metal polished Ill give up.

Engine parts photographed inside match a Rolls-Royce RB211
I have never seen a n rb 211 torn appart and never in a crash so Ill concede that that one is a RB211 part just because some expert told so... (by the way the high presure parts of the half shaft of an RB211 and the combustor do not have that color but maybe because it was heated it went brownish color but Ill be open and cencede that MAYBE that is part of the half shaft of an RB 211.

Structural components photographed in wreckage match Boeing paint primer schemes

Boeing makes a lot of airplanes and defense contracts, also the plant in Wichita Kansas taht makes those parts also manefactures for others like Douglas (now a Boeing company) etc.... Even the primer for Airbuses is the same.....so Brrrrrrrr (chime) that one I dont accept

Large deisel generator in front of building hit by a large heavy object

By a large object a 757? mmm I guess not...


Large deisel engine outside is spun towards the building - could not be result of bomb blast or missile explosion

Something with that thing,,,not a 757

Multiple eye witnesses say they saw an airliner
at 320 knots...! at les that 100 feet above...come on.....!!!! have you been to Fontana or indianapolis to see the Indy cars? at 300km/h (slower that the aleged 757) YOU CANT SEE THEM CLEARLY so witnesses saying I saw an AA airliner with the gear up or down or what ever is Bull# I dare you to go to ANY airport and stand in the flight path and see it in less than one second (closer than a 150 feet) and identify planes, Its easier to identify em by noise than by sight, also remember that Airliners land at 130 to 150 knots NOT 320 Knots.

Multiple eye witnesses say they saw an airliner hit the Pentagon

SAME HERE

60+ bodies, matching the passenger list and flight crew roster identified and returned to families from Pentagon wreckage

One word ..COVER UP.

On some more weird facts about it go to the NTSB site and guess what the record of the 4 catastrphes of 9/11 are not there abecause they are being investigated by FBI, THEN WHY NO INFO? has not the case been investigated and closed? why the secrecy?

Did you know that the guy that made the payments to the victims relatives had no supervision about the asignation of funds to the deeds its unheard of in US history and the ammount payed was discretional, I dont remember the name of the guy but it seems to me the administration wanted to close the chapter quite fast.....

And lastly 189 Bodies should have been recovered right? Thats is a lot ans they should have been carring a lot of baggage, TONS OF IT........well you have showed me a part of SOME engine, A blue pArt that lloks like a seat, 2 parts with yeloww/green primer and a wheel rim (possibly 2) and that makes a whole 757...congratulations I have a large piramid to sell you...here its called Chichen Itza...really cheap

Originally posted by kix

And lastly 189 Bodies should have been recovered right? Thats is a lot ans they should have been carring a lot of baggage, TONS OF IT........well you have showed me a part of SOME engine, A blue pArt that lloks like a seat, 2 parts with yeloww/green primer and a wheel rim (possibly 2) and that makes a whole 757...congratulations I have a large piramid to sell you...here its called Chichen Itza...really cheap

Where did you get the number 189 bodies there was only 64 on flight 77

Originally posted by kix

60+ bodies, matching the passenger list and flight crew roster identified and returned to families from Pentagon wreckage

One word ..COVER UP.

Cover Up thats all the proof I need they must have done it. So you buy into the whole they were flown to a air force base and then lead into a room where they were blown up by a bomb?

Man I got some sweet land In Flordia for sale of you interested.

Originally posted by kix

Multiple eye witnesses say they saw an airliner
at 320 knots...! at les that 100 feet above...come on.....!!!! have you been to Fontana or indianapolis to see the Indy cars? at 300km/h (slower that the aleged 757) YOU CANT SEE THEM CLEARLY so witnesses saying I saw an AA airliner with the gear up or down or what ever is Bull# I dare you to go to ANY airport and stand in the flight path and see it in less than one second (closer than a 150 feet) and identify planes, Its easier to identify em by noise than by sight, also remember that Airliners land at 130 to 150 knots NOT 320 Knots.

Multiple eye witnesses say they saw an airliner hit the Pentagon

By your logic, no one would bother to go watch car races because they shoudl not be able to tell which car is in front.

Your whole argument is that the witnesses that saw the crash, the firemen and rescue people that put out the fires, and everyone else is either in on the conspiracy or a total idiot.

Not really. But a plane travelling at 500 miles per hour that was apparently a few feet off the ground. That would be a hard thing to identify. People would only be seeing it for a matter of a couple of seconds maximum (well those near the pentagon anyways)

Originally posted by kix
Since there is NOT a contest of crashing a 757 everyweek and we dont know what size an airliner punches trough the pentagon any hole larger that the fuselage diameter would do HOW convenient dont you think? a really big explotion would do the same and since the building collpsed we may never ever know the way the esplotion affected the outer wall, sufice to say that you state the Tristar 1011 is about the same size of a 757 ITS NOT. The Tristar has a very large fuselage and weight 19 tons more in it shortest version I can make a very long thread explaing the aeronautics details but Ill be consice. As I cannot probe that a 757 makes that king of hole you cannot either.

You are correct in my mistake with my wording - which I've corrected (and intended to before submitting the post). The Picture of the Lockheed 1011 was for comparison of the design basics of an airline body. I in no way shape or form meant to compare sizes of the two craft - this is evident by the photo of the 757-300 used as the 2nd example of an aircraft being manufactured.

And you are right about we don't crash a 757 into a building every week to compare impact holes - yet 90% of every conspiracy site points at the size of the hole in the building as "proof" that the hole is too small for a 757 to have caused it. I've proven otherwise.

Originally posted by kix
Rims found in building match those of a 757

They look alike but they are not the holes are asimetrical and those in the photo are simetrical, also the rim is convexe and the one in the photo IS NOT, the weight of the lead balancers WHO DID MENTION THEM? The center cap on the trunnion obviously missing is of no consequence since its missing and we cant compare it with the original. Also the lip is very pronounced if you put your hand in to a 757 wheel rim you may notice is more than an inch deep....

Nope, they are the exact same rims. Look again. They are the exact same rims used on a 757, the only problem you're having is that only 10% of the outer rim is left, the other having been smashed away (ever get a flat on a trailer while going 60mph? If you don't notice in time, you sheer off the outer portion of your rim as it hits the pavement - I've done it one time before...)

Originally posted by kix
Small turbine engine outside is an APU
Exactly is not an RR engine, the auxiliary power unit on the tail of the 757 made by garret could be that on the photo but a lot of planes use garret equipment (more than 35 diferent ones)

Same engine has been clearly stated to not match a Global Hawk engine
I never mentioned a Global Hawk I could be another kind of plane/missile, we suspect of a GH because of size and match of some other data (to me its an hipothesis)

You may have not stated it was a Global Hawk - but at least 5 other people on here have - and so have dozens of conspiracy theory sites. I merely proved them all wrong. (Otherwise WHERE did that APU come from??)

Originally posted by kix
Blue seats from 757 laying on ground in photos

Those Seats, weird they are missing some sturdier parts like the aluminium and also we should check airliner num reg N644AA to see if it was equipped with flotation devices as lower seats (do you know-I dont) if so they maight as well be seats if not sorry but the remains should be more complete.

It is FAA regulation that ALL commercial passenger aircraft "When flying over water and at a distance of more than 50 nautical miles (NM) (93 km) from shore, the aircraft shall carry one lifejacket or equivalent flotation device for each person on board, stowed in a position easily accessible from the seat or berth of the person for whose use it is provided" - meaning every commercial flight in the USA and Canada, regardless of how far it is from the ocean, carries flotation devices. I've yet to see a passenger airline with a router shorter than 50nm.

As for "where are the sturdier parts" the sturdiest part of an airline passenger seat is the seat - the part you are buckled to. The armwrests are flimsy sluminum and plastic and are attached with only 2 or 3 bolts to ensure easy and quick replacement/repair by groundcrew.

Originally posted by kix
Part of "American" fuselage logo visible in more than 1 photo

If you probe to me the gary part is SILVER metal polished Ill give up.

So the only thing that is "proving" in your mind that this is a conspiracy is the one piece of the plane on the lawn with the paint markings? What about all the other evidence?

Originally posted by kix
Engine parts photographed inside match a Rolls-Royce RB211
I have never seen a n rb 211 torn appart and never in a crash so Ill concede that that one is a RB211 part just because some expert told so... (by the way the high presure parts of the half shaft of an RB211 and the combustor do not have that color but maybe because it was heated it went brownish color but Ill be open and cencede that MAYBE that is part of the half shaft of an RB 211.

Originally posted by kix
Structural components photographed in wreckage match Boeing paint primer schemes

Boeing makes a lot of airplanes and defense contracts, also the plant in Wichita Kansas taht makes those parts also manefactures for others like Douglas (now a Boeing company) etc.... Even the primer for Airbuses is the same.....so Brrrrrrrr (chime) that one I dont accept

Of course Boeing makes lots of planes (and they bought out Mcdonald-Douglas in 1997 and discontinued the entire line of MDs [MD80, MD90, MD11]) - but they don't make Airbuses. And Airbus doesn't use the same primers as Boeing:

Airbus uses grey primer inside their airframes.


They use a different color of olive primer on their wings


Airbus use yellow plastic wrap for internal function components (insulation wrap, conduit wrap, airflow joints) - be SURE TO NOTE that the bright yellow paint in 90% of this photo is outside of the piece they are working on - it's stairwells, cranes etc and not part of the plane. They do not use yellow primer on their parts.

Originally posted by kix
Large deisel generator in front of building hit by a large heavy object

By a large object a 757? mmm I guess not...

Ok, so what hit it? What moved it towards the building? What could have possibly moved such a heavy solid steel engine towards the Pentagon like that, and then not moved it back from the "bomb" blast if it were indeed a missile or a bomb that hit the Pentagon? That is one magic missile - it defies the laws of gravity and physics! And stop the press, somebody invended a bomb that explodes INWARDS sucking 15 ton objects towards it!

It was hit by the right engine of the 757.

Originally posted by kix
Large deisel engine outside is spun towards the building - could not be result of bomb blast or missile explosion

Something with that thing,,,not a 757

Not sure what you mean here. You're agreeing that a bomb or missile couldn't have hit and moved that generator but you're also saying the 757 couldn't have done it? Ok, so what hit the generator and moved it, and was still big enough to punch through the wall of the Pentagon? Certainly not a Global Hawk, and definitely not a cruise missile, and impossible for a jet fighter... good heavens - perhaps the government men swapped the original 757 with... another 757??

It was flight 77, a Boeing 757 that hit the generator, the fence in front of the generator, and the pillar of the Pentagon with it's right engine.

Originally posted by kix
Multiple eye witnesses say they saw an airliner
at 320 knots...! at les that 100 feet above...come on.....!!!! have you been to Fontana or indianapolis to see the Indy cars? at 300km/h (slower that the aleged 757) YOU CANT SEE THEM CLEARLY so witnesses saying I saw an AA airliner with the gear up or down or what ever is Bull# I dare you to go to ANY airport and stand in the flight path and see it in less than one second (closer than a 150 feet) and identify planes, Its easier to identify em by noise than by sight, also remember that Airliners land at 130 to 150 knots NOT 320 Knots.

This is just flawed logic at it's best. Have you ever gone to an air show and seen the AirBirds or SnowBirds or Blue Angels perform? They are flying at speeds in excess of 500mph for many of their moves yet you can see them clearly. You even see the pilots in the canopy when they swoop down low only 400 feet on front of you as they fly past. Have you ever gone to a race track? The only point where the cars (going 180mph) are a blur is directly in front of you, but the moment they pass, and are only 150 feet away from you, they're perfectly visible.

Originally posted by kix
Multiple eye witnesses say they saw an airliner hit the Pentagon

SAME HERE

60+ bodies, matching the passenger list and flight crew roster identified and returned to families from Pentagon wreckage

One word ..COVER UP.

COVER UP? (That's two words.) And it would be the most amazing coverup in the history of coverups. Somehow they managed to get 60+ people off the plane, then they managed to blow them up, then they somehow magically managed to stick all 60+ people inside a burning building without 100+ rescue workers noticing! To add to that, they also carried along all their luggage (after blowing it up) and managed to stash it inside a burning building without 100+ rescue workers noticing.

Man, those guys are AMAZING. Come to think of it... if they managed to pull that off, howcome they didn't also stick more peices of a 757 around on the lawn? I mean, nobody noticed them carry over 60 bodies into the Pentagon, and nobody noticed them carry over 100 peices of luggage into the Pentagon - why wouldn't they be able to put some more parts of an American Airlines 757 out on the lawn?!

Originally posted by kix
On some more weird facts about it go to the NTSB site and guess what the record of the 4 catastrphes of 9/11 are not there abecause they are being investigated by FBI, THEN WHY NO INFO? has not the case been investigated and closed? why the secrecy?

The NTSB isn't investigating a terrorist attack against the United States because that falls under the pervue of Homeland Security. There was no accidental plane crash, there is no broken part to discover, there is nothing to learn from the wreckage as to why the planes crashed. That is what the NTSB does - investigates a crash to discover WHY a plane crashed so they can fix that problem with that type of aircraft in all other aircraft. The NTSB, and the FAA mandate safety regulations and operating regulations to ensure other planes don't crash and to ensure airlines all operate with a reasonable level of safety.

Originally posted by kix
Did you know that the guy that made the payments to the victims relatives had no supervision about the asignation of funds to the deeds its unheard of in US history and the ammount payed was discretional, I dont remember the name of the guy but it seems to me the administration wanted to close the chapter quite fast.....

I see... "some guy" made "some payments" from "some fund", with "some money" to some people. Well you got me there - that's proof! What guy? What funds?

Originally posted by kix
And lastly 189 Bodies should have been recovered right? Thats is a lot ans they should have been carring a lot of baggage, TONS OF IT........well you have showed me a part of SOME engine, A blue pArt that lloks like a seat, 2 parts with yeloww/green primer and a wheel rim (possibly 2) and that makes a whole 757...congratulations I have a large piramid to sell you...here its called Chichen Itza...really cheap

Actually, if you view ALL the photos from the FEMA site (do a search from September 10, 2001 to April 30, 2002) you will see wheelbarrows of luggage and wreckage and junk being hauled out, you will see pelnty of photos of charred luggage and mayhem inside the building. If you view ALL the media sources you will see people carrying out tons of stuff from the building. The only problem here is you are relying ONLY on a few sources that use the SAME photos and the SAME stories and the same flawed logic to prove a conspiracy where none exists.

I'm not the one deluding myself here, sorry.

[edit on 11-9-2004 by CatHerder]

If a missile hit it--why don't any REAL organizations (ones that have websites not blabbing that it was the Illumnati, Jews, or Aliens--which all the conspiracy ones have (one out of the three at least)) talk about it. Why not any French or Russian or other governments? Would no one have talked--no one involved, if it was our government. No one's conscience wouldn't have gotten to them? Also, I love how so many of you and these people running the sites have no true formal science training and talk about smoke plumes and how planes hit stuff, etc. etc. Go look at Hiroshima. Buildings near the bomb were standing in some cases, yet some miles away were burned down among unharmed buildings.